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 Post subject: My MythTV HTPC - Updated Sept. '09
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:00 pm
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Location: SLC, Utah, US
EDIT: Photos resized and linked to larger versions.

I guess this would be the fifth system I've built "under the influence" of SPCR and I have to say that it's my best so far. The fact that I've also put more effort into it than the others probably has a lot to do with that, but I wouldn't have gotten here without the help of SPCR. Thanks, or curses, to everyone. :D Anyway, I'm finally getting around to contributing. Sorry for the length.

Specs

Case: Silverstone Lascala LC13B
Case fans: Scythe 120 mm S-FLEX SFF21D, two intake, one exhaust
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4400 Allendale w/stock heatsink & fan
Thermal paste: Arctic Silver 5 on CPU and chipset
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R rev 1.0
RAM: Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800, 1 GB x 2
PSU: Seasonic S12 380
HDD: Seagate 2.5" 5400.3 120 GB SATA, two drives
DVD: Samsung SH-183L SATA
Video card: MSI 8500GT (NX8500GT-MTD256EH), low profile, passive
Tuner: Hauppauge PVR-150, two tuners
OS: Ubuntu Feisty with the 2.6.22-14 kernel (for Core 2 Duo temperature module), running MythTV 0.20.2

The case was mainly purchased for its looks, but the openness of the interior was also a factor. The drive bays hang from the top, which leaves a relatively flat floor that spans the entire case. The stock front fan, which was actually installed backward in my case from the factory (blowing air out of the case), was removed and a spare Papst 120 mm fan was installed in the interior in the same location as this LC13 case. In this form, the case worked relatively well for some older hardware I ran in it for a few months, but the two 60 mm fans in the back were a little noisier than I'd prefer and they didn't move all that much air (big surprise).

As I said, this worked well for the older hardware, but anything newer would require more airflow through the case. I started to hatch a plan to improve the case's ventilation. That plan involved cutting large holes in the case to fit multiple 120 mm fans for both intake and exhaust duties. Since the mods I was planning to the case weren't trivial, and would be somewhat determined by the hardware in the case, I decided to wait until it was time to buy new hardware. One exception to that was replacing the two very bright blue LEDs on the front panel. They were replaced with two low output green LEDs within the first week.

The motherboard, CPU, and RAM were selected based on the computers that a co-worker and I built for our work PCs. Even though there had been some issues with Gigabyte's GA-P35-DS3R motherboards, both of these machines were stable. System temperatures were also very good when housed in an Antec Solo with a Seasonic S12 II 380 and the stock TriFlow fan (on low) providing the airflow. Even under full load, both cores and the chipset stay below 45°C. Idle temps are around 30°C for the CPU and 40°C for the chipset. I selected the video card because it was a low profile card, which left enough room to mount a 120 mm fan directly above it on the underside the case lid. A standard height card wouldn't allow for enough clearance between the case and the card for a 25 mm thick fan. It was also the only low profile, passive 8500GT that Newegg had at the time, plus it has DVI, HDMI, S-Video, and component outputs.

Once the hardware had been selected, I started cutting holes. Two holes were cut in the floor of the chassis for the two intake fans. A third hole was cut in the case cover directly above the video card heatsink and chipset heatsink for the exhaust fan. Actually, the top hole is more like 1.8 holes (think Venn diagram) since measuring twice and cutting once only really works when you've got the item you're cutting oriented correctly. D'oh! :oops: The fans were mounted to the case using zip ties. A layer of high density, 1/2" wide weather stripping seals the area between the fan and the chassis and reduces the amount of vibration transmitted to the chassis. The zip ties are pulled just tight enough to pull the fan casing against the weather stripping, but not so tight as to fully compress it (see pics below). I've used this technique for a few years and it works very well. It's also cheap. :D The newly cut holes in the case were covered with some scrap window screen to keep critters from crawling inside. The intake fans are powered by the power supply and the exhaust fan is powered by the motherboard via an extension cable made from spare parts. All three are running on 12V. The case's front intake was sealed, along with the vents on the sides.

These two pictures are from another case of mine, but they should give you an idea of how the fans were mounted in this case.

Weather stripping placed around the hole

Image

Fan attached to case

Image

Now for pictures of this system. It's only partially assembled at this point. The opening for the fan closest to the side of the case is partially blocked by the foot of the case. I'm not too concerned about that.

Image

Fully assembled

Image

I was originally planning to suspend whatever hard drives made it into the case by removing the existing 3.5" drive bay and suspending the drives directly over the intake fans (oriented similar to the drives pictured above). Well, that didn't happen because I'm lazy. The 2.5" drives are quiet enough that I just ended up modifying the 3.5" drive bay to accommodate up to five 2.5" drives (notice the small hole drilled in the bottom), while still allowing plenty of air flow between them.

Hurray for SATA cables! :D

Image

Whoops. :oops: The "extra" exhaust hole was sealed using some scrap cardboard and RTV sealant. The side vents were sealed using the same technique.

Image


Temperatures

All the temperature testing was conducted with the system in the TV cabinet with the glass doors partially open (not as open as in the picture below). I even modded my TV cabinet in support of the new hardware. A major portion of the back of the TV cabinet was cut out to help with ventilation and to deal with all the wires.

Image

Idle
CPU: ~34°C
Chipset: ~49°C
Video card: ~56°C
HDD: ~31°C

Full load
Two instances of Prime95 set to run on specific cores, each with a priority of 8, run for two hours
CPU: 54°C
Chipset: 51°C
Video card: Not monitored
HDD: ~31°C

Watching live TV using MythTV (standard definition)
CPU: ~35°C
Chipset: ~49°C
Video card: ~57°C
HDD: ~32°C

Watching standard-def TV only exerts a load of about 15% on the CPU, so temperatures are not that much higher than at idle. I haven't done any load testing on the video card yet, so I can't say how hot it will get.


Future plans

The temperatures seem very good so far, but I do have a few ideas that I might try down the road:
  • Adding guides to the intake fans to help direct the air in a more horizontal manner across the motherboard
  • Raising the chassis slightly so that there's more clearance between the bottom of the chassis and the shelf
  • Installing a U-shaped baffle underneath the chassis to force the intake fans to only pull air from the front, a similar mod could be made to the exhaust fan vent so that it exhausts only to the rear
  • Adding a baffle between the video card heatsink and the exhaust fan
  • Adding a baffle between the chipset heatsink and the exhaust fan

Christian


Last edited by clalor on Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:11 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:22 pm 
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I can't believe I forgot to mention how quiet the system is. It's a good thing I wasn't issued a SPCR card, otherwise it would have been taken away from me already. :D

I can't hear the system at all if I'm not one foot away from it with the glass doors all the way open. So far, I haven't heard any of the ticking that was noted in the review of the S-FLEX D fan. I could hear the the CPU fan when I was running the full load test. It spun up to around 1800 RPM, but it wasn't very loud. What noise there was wasn't a harsh noise at all, at least not to my ears.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:18 am 
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Very nice. I like using the weather stipping to seal the case fan.

I'm in the market for a DVD writer. Any reason you chose the Samsung SH-183L SATA ?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:19 am 
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Any chance you could shoehorn a 70 or 80mm fan where the 60s were before, and duct that to a Minja for some quiet cpu cooling?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 7:48 am 
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Tommy Jefferson wrote:
Very nice. I like using the weather stipping to seal the case fan.

I'm in the market for a DVD writer. Any reason you chose the Samsung SH-183L SATA ?


Thanks. The only reason I used that Samsung DVD drive was because I already had it (installed in my desktop). There was previously a Samsung SH-182D DVD (PATA) drive in this system. Since both drives were purchased less than six months ago, and the MythTV machine would benefit greatly from having a SATA drive, I just swapped drives between machines. Had I purchased a new DVD drive, I would have gone with the SH-203 since it seems to be getting pretty good reviews.

djkest wrote:
Any chance you could shoehorn a 70 or 80mm fan where the 60s were before, and duct that to a Minja for some quiet cpu cooling?


I had considered putting 80 mm fans back there, but I ended up thinking that it would probably be a lot of work for not a lot of improvement. Of course, this was before I knew about the Minja. I wanted to see how loud the stock Intel fan would be before trying to replace it. The Minja is an option in the future and if I went that way there's some room between the PSU and DVD drive to fit a fan and a duct to it.

I should probably clarify the noise level of the Intel fan. Instead of saying that it wasn't very loud at full load, I should say it is reasonably quiet. Even at full load, the system was quiet enough that I wouldn't have even noticed it had the room not been quiet (no music or TV on at the time).


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:52 am 
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1. The Geforce 8000 series doesn't support xvmc according to this thread. Not that it matters a great deal to CPU usage, but I would think you could lessen the heat in the case by going with an older card and get xvmc in the bargain.

Is there any ability to control your fan speeds from linux?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 12:02 pm 
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Hi,

it's great to see your work, very inspiring.

However I'm a bit disappointed that you did not study more about the components you are using. My guess is that this PC is way to powerful for a HTPC, also resulting in a larger energy bill.

What is power consumption during watching TV ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Depends. the HDDVD front begs to differ. You ever play a 1080p rip? that makes my X2 4800 debate a ancient japanese tradition of soldiers that fall in battle.

honestly, if I was to build an ultimate rig, it would be close. I would of opted for the digital tuners instead of dual analog's...but it works.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 3:58 pm 
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Hi,

That is a nice build! I like how you used the 2.5" drives, are these still hard mounted to the case since you mention you found them to be quiet enough? The reason I ask is that a year and a half ago I built a MythTV system using the Silverstone LC20 and the biggest issue I have had is the noise of my 3.5" HD's being amplified because the case does not allow these to be easily soft mounted. This results in a rather annoying high pitched "chirping". Other than that, I have found the case to be quite good with very good cooling capability.

Another question I'd like to ask you is about the compatibility of your mainboard with Linux and MythTV. I want to build a new MythTV system again (although, this time I am leaning towards getting an Antec NSK2400 or Fusion) and am looking at the new Intel G33/P35 but it appears this is only supported in the 2.6.23 Linux kernel. I have never used Ubuntu before in combination with MythTV. For my current setup, I used the famous MythTV HOWTO from Jarod Wilson for Fedora Core 4 at the time. This time, I am considering MythDora, or Fedora Core 7.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 4:58 pm 
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That's a lot of cooling for drives that put out 2.5W! :shock: Very nice build in a rather crappy case configuration. I used to have the same case and I had trouble making it as quiet as I wanted. You did a great job.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:18 pm 
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Thanks for the compliments, everyone. I'll try to respond to everything in this post.

Quote:
1. The Geforce 8000 series doesn't support xvmc according to this thread. Not that it matters a great deal to CPU usage, but I would think you could lessen the heat in the case by going with an older card and get xvmc in the bargain.

Well, crap. :x I did a little research before buying the 8500GT, but I guess I didn't do enough, since the XvMC thing was news to me (thanks for the link). Buying a better card than I thought I'd need at the present didn't seem to work this time. I'm not all that happy with the card right now anyway (output is WAY too big and the overscan settings are ignored), so I might move it to my desktop and find a cheaper card for this machine.

Quote:
Is there any ability to control your fan speeds from linux?

There might be something, but I haven't spent any time investigating it. I'm using lm-sensors for monitoring. It may or may not have the ability to do any control. The CPU fan is the only one I'm worried about controlling and that's already been taken care of on this board.

Quote:
However I'm a bit disappointed that you did not study more about the components you are using. My guess is that this PC is way to powerful for a HTPC, also resulting in a larger energy bill.

The hardware is definitely overkill for what it's being used for right now; however, I wanted to make sure that I had plenty of room to grow without having to do any upgrades. It's taken over as my Subversion server, which saves a little bit of power in not having to run a separate machine for that. It's also only powered on when I'm watching TV, recording, listening to music, or if I need Subversion running. The motherboard supports waking up from the hardware clock alarm, so it will start itself up if it needs to record, record, and shut itself off shortly after it's finished recording (if there's nothing else going on on the machine). Since it has so many spare resources at this point, I may look into installing Xen, installing MythTV on a virtualized server (I believe it's possible), along with a few other virtualized servers that I can use as development test servers.

Quote:
What is power consumption during watching TV ?

It's unknown at this time since I don't have anything to measure it with. I'll be buying a Kill-A-Watt in the next week or two. I'll update once I have some numbers.

Quote:
honestly, if I was to build an ultimate rig, it would be close. I would of opted for the digital tuners instead of dual analog's...but it works.

I cheaped out here since I already had both tuner cards. A digital card, or cards, will be in my future when my SD TV gets replaced with an HD unit.

Quote:
That is a nice build! I like how you used the 2.5" drives, are these still hard mounted to the case since you mention you found them to be quiet enough?

They are hard mounted to the case and I have yet to hear any sort of drive noise. Even if I do hear something, I still expect them to be well below any sort of noise floor from playing media.

Quote:
Another question I'd like to ask you is about the compatibility of your mainboard with Linux and MythTV. I want to build a new MythTV system again (although, this time I am leaning towards getting an Antec NSK2400 or Fusion) and am looking at the new Intel G33/P35 but it appears this is only supported in the 2.6.23 Linux kernel.

I started out with the kernel used by Ubuntu Feisty, which is 2.6.20, for the first week or so and I didn't notice any issues with it. I only upgraded to the 2.6.22 kernel since it contains the patch to read Core 2 Duo core temperatures. I don't know much about the differences between the P35 on my board and the G33, so I can't comment too much beyond that.

Quote:
I have never used Ubuntu before in combination with MythTV. For my current setup, I used the famous MythTV HOWTO from Jarod Wilson for Fedora Core 4 at the time. This time, I am considering MythDora, or Fedora Core 7.

Before you decide on one of the Fedora distros, check out the Ubuntu MythTV install guides. I had MythTV up and running on this machine, including installing the OS, in about three hours. They've done a great job at improving the install process.

Quote:
That's a lot of cooling for drives that put out 2.5W! :shock: Very nice build in a rather crappy case configuration. I used to have the same case and I had trouble making it as quiet as I wanted. You did a great job.

Yeah, this case definitely leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to cooling. The hottest I've seen the drives get so far was about 37°C when I was copying many gigs of data from one drive to the other.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:15 am 
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clalor wrote:
Had I purchased a new DVD drive, I would have gone with the SH-203 since it seems to be getting pretty good reviews.


Thank you for the info. I'm trying to build a quiet, low-as-possible-energy Core2Duo Ubuntu/Myth machine inside an Antec Solo. I'm using your build as reference.

Please do post your energy usage after your killawatt meter arrives.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:39 am 
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thanks for replying.

Can you give any explanation on the software you used? why you didn't use XP MCE etc..


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:30 am 
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Tommy Jefferson wrote:
Thank you for the info. I'm trying to build a quiet, low-as-possible-energy Core2Duo Ubuntu/Myth machine inside an Antec Solo. I'm using your build as reference.


Good luck with the build. Make sure to check out the SH-203 topic in the silent storage section if you haven't already. There seems to be some differing opinions on that drive. I actually have one in my work computer, but I haven't had a chance to use it much to really form an opinion about it.

Justchill wrote:
Can you give any explanation on the software you used? why you didn't use XP MCE etc..


I never really considered using MCE 2005 (Vista never even entered the picture) and wouldn't be able to point to one reason why. Maybe it was the money ($120+ for an OEM copy), threats, real or imagined, of DRM, or just the fact that for some reason I'm more comfortable with Linux on a remote machine. I did get a quick demo of an MCE machine that a co-worker built and it seems to be a pretty good product.

My first MythTV trial (on Ubuntu Edgy) actually didn't go so well, so I ended up running a trial of BeyondTV for a bit. That went even less well. It uses a separate program for other media types (videos, music, DVDs, etc), which I found to be awkward. After I discovered that the trial version couldn't play a DVD, I ditched it and gave MythTV another go.

The second MythTV trial (still on Ubuntu Edgy) went better, especially after I discovered the "deinterlace output" setting, which solved my picture quality issue and was maybe a duh on my part. There were still a few somewhat ugly hacks that I had to perform to get the tuner and IR receiver kernel modules to play nicely with each other. Even still, that worked well enough that I used it for a couple of months on the old hardware (1 GHz P-III, 512 MB RAM, MX4000 video card).

Once the new hardware showed up, I tried MythTV on Ubuntu Feisty and it was much improved. No ugly hacks required and it just worked right away.

I didn't discover MediaPortal until I was well down the MythTV road. If I was running a Windows system, I'd probably give it a try. It's free, open source, and uses Schedules Direct for TV listings ($20/year, same place I grab listings for MythTV).

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:04 pm 
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My Kill-A-Watt showed up yesterday, so here are the power consumption figures along with a load test on the video card.

I wasn't quite sure how to put a load on the video card. After a little searching on the subject, I remembered that I had a copy of Quake 3 and that there was a Linux version of the game for download. I'm not sure how much it loaded the video card, but based on temperatures it seemed to do a respectable job. As for the specifics of the test, Prime95 was running on one core with a priority of 8, with a Quake 3 timedemo loop of the included Four demo and the UCGuideDemo1 demo (from the UC Benchmark Demo Pack 1.32) run on the other core. Quake 3 was set up to run in a 1024x768 window with the video quality settings turned up as far as I could.

Idle
74 W

Watching TV
78 W

DVD playback
84 W

Full Load (similar to the full load test in my original post)
115 W

Full Load (w/video)
120 W
CPU: 52°C (both cores)
Chipset: 52°C
Video card: 69°C

Based on these results, I think I'll start looking for a smaller, 80-plus power supply, which will free up this power supply to replace an 8-year-old power supply in another case.

The new video card (Gigabyte 7200GS, 128MB RAM) should show up sometime next week. I'll do another round of tests once it's installed.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Here are the power consumption numbers with the new video card:

Idle: 70 W
Watching TV: 74 W
DVD playback: 80 W
Full load w/video: 106 W

The GPU runs hotter on this card than the 8500GT it replaced. The idle temperature was 66­°C and it hit 79°C on the load test.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:13 pm 
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Sounds like the cooling solution on the 7200GS isn't as good?

Also what about overall performance? Does the 4W decrease in power consumption come at the cost of reduced speed?

I've got a 7100GS in my wife's PC, and that thing idles really hot.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:47 pm 
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The heat sink on the new card is smaller (shorter, more tightly spaced fins), which definitely can't help. It's a pretty simple design, so it shouldn't be too difficult to replace it with something a little more robust in the future.

I think the Quake 3 timedemos ran slower, but I haven't noticed any changes in performance under normal system use. If anything, this card should help overall system performance since it does support XvMC, even though I'm not using it currently.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:57 am 
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There was something about that last set of power consumption figures that didn't sit right with me. If the new video card uses 4 W less during normal activities (i.e. not stressing the video card), then it should use 4 W less during the dual Prime95 load test as well. If that was true, that test should give me a figure of 111 W, which doesn't make sense to me since the last Prime95 + Quake 3 test only used 106 W.

I had decided not to run the dual Prime95 load test with the new video card since any difference in power usage would have shown up during the other tests. Well, I went ahead and ran that test a few nights ago and it gave me a result of 106 W. I have to say that I'm a little stumped by the result. The numbers are correct since I've run it twice with the same result. Hmm... :?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 2:23 pm 
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The relationship between load and power used may not be a liner relation. But why are you fretting over 5W?

Very nice build! :D I'm very impressed on how you modded your case to improve airflow. As for your software, would you recommend the MythTV route or another?

-Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:01 pm 
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Thanks. I used to be a test engineer, so when I get a weird result I usually like to figure out why. :)

My recommendation on software would most likely be determined by who I was making the recommendation to. MythTV is very cool, and it's what I have the most experience with, but in my opinion it will probably take a little more effort to setup than other programs. With that said, the MythTV install process is getting much easier as time goes on, especially with projects like Mythbuntu and Mythdora that focus specifically on MythTV. In the end it's Linux, so you still have to worry about compatible hardware, and sometimes the quality of their drivers, but there is plenty of information out there on what works and what doesn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:45 am 
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I'm thinking of building a setup similar to yours, and am considering using that MSI video card you started with. It's the only one I can find that seems to have the requirements I want: 1) nVidia chipset for Linux support 2) Onboard HDMI 3) Passive cooling. Seems as though most retailers are starting to not stock it, not sure if it's because of issues with the card or what, but I was hoping you could tell me your experiences with it? Any problems configuring the HDMI to work? How's the picture quality for HD stuff? Also, if anyone knows of a card with similar features that exists or is coming in the near future, please let me know!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 5:40 pm 
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In general, I'd recommend staying away from the 8-series cards for Linux & MythTV since the drivers aren't very mature right now. Based on what I've read and have experienced from my 8500GT, the 8-series cards:
  • Don't support XvMC yet and it's low on their priority list (requires a complete rewrite)
  • Ignore the TV overscan value, in my case resulting in a picture much larger that the TV screen by 20-30 pixels on each side
  • Don't support HDCP on the HDMI output
  • Audio through the HDMI is not known to work

HDMI and HD were never tested since I still have an standard-def TV.

In short, buy a cheap 7-series card. That's what I did and I'm much happier with it. The 8500GT is now sitting in my Windows box.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 8:46 pm 
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clalor wrote:
Based on what I've read and have experienced from my 8500GT, the 8-series cards:
  • Don't support HDCP on the HDMI output


What conceivable use would one have for this (mis)feature on a MythTV box?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:45 am 
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BugFix wrote:
What conceivable use would one have for this (mis)feature on a MythTV box?


Most likely none. :D However, it's a good thing to know what it supports and what it doesn't.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:31 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
clalor wrote:
BugFix wrote:
What conceivable use would one have for this (mis)feature on a MythTV box?


Most likely none. :D However, it's a good thing to know what it supports and what it doesn't.


Right, but in this case "supporting" the "feature" results in a system that has fewer capabilities than one without said "feature". The whole point of HDCP is to allow the software level to refuse to display on "unapproved" devices. The only reason you would ever want to buy it is if you were somehow locked into a software stack that refused to work without HDCP. And this discussion was about MythTV, which for obvious reasons doesn't subscribe to such nonsense.

HDCP does nothing for the user. It's only purpose is to allow collusion between the content, software, and hardware providers to decide where and when you are allowed to display the content.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:49 pm 
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Does anyone have experience using the HDMI to an HDTV with this card, as that's what I'd like to do. My main concern is the picture size issue mentioned earlier, and whether or not that is resolved by using the HDMI? Not having XmVC supported at this time (I'm sure some day the 8000 series will support it) isn't a dealbreaker for me on its own. As it stands all the other features of this card are exactly what I'm looking for and it appears to be the only one of its kind on the market...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:10 pm 
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Location: SLC, Utah, US
BugFix wrote:
The only reason you would ever want to buy it is if you were somehow locked into a software stack that refused to work without HDCP.


Or, for a more general example, if you bought a nice, expensive HDTV and planned on using an HDMI port not knowing that the port requires HDCP. That may or may not be the case right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens in the near future. Yes, there are other ways to get a signal into the TV, but knowing that the video drivers don't support HDCP and probably never will could be important for someone. Since he was asking specifically about the card, and its HDMI port, that's why I mentioned it.

I agree with you about these "features" limiting the consumer's rights. That's one of the main reasons why I have a MythTV system and not a Windows MCE system.

ghinch, try searching on the nV News Forum.

_________________
Christian - MythTV HTPC | File Server


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:07 am 
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Location: Portland, OR
clalor wrote:
Or, for a more general example, if you bought a nice, expensive HDTV and planned on using an HDMI port not knowing that the port requires HDCP.


It works the other way around. Display devices don't require HDCP (which is an optional part of the HDMI spec -- normal HDMI connections are unencrypted). It's the software side that desires the ability to say "I don't want my fancy content to display on a device that doesn't promise to accept the whole transmission encrypted using HDCP."

Displays don't care, and never will. Even consumers with no knowledge of these things would immediately return a HDTV that didn't work with their existing HD sources (most of which, even today, don't use HDCP).

I can't say this strongly enough: HDCP is not a feature. You don't want it. It does nothing for you. And you really don't want to be making purchasing decisions based on the flawed idea that support for it is somehow "necessary".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:17 am 
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Clalor, thank you for posting your killawatt numbers.

120w at full-load is pretty decent!

Thank you for before-and-after the 7200.


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