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 Post subject: Oak Two-Fan SFF w/Ducted Ninja...Completely Done.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 2:19 pm 
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It's quiet, in fact it's silent to me for all practical purposes. There's a single Nexus 92mm fan blowing upward through the ducted Ninja. The wood case is built around an old Compaq, chopped and cut up. The front bezel/panel is a piece of 1/2" oak plywood. The metal frame is screwed to this piece of wood from the inside. This panel forms part of the frame, and strengthens and squares the rest of the setup. The drive cage came out of an Antec Aria case...cut up of course. It is held to the front bezel with two wood screws. It will hold a short full-sized optical drive. When finished it will have a Scythe Kama Panel w/ a Pansonic laptop optical drive.

The board is an A-Open i855-GMEm LFS. The CPU is a Pentium M-755 Dothan. This processor supports speed step....so it is set to idle at 600mhz, and speeds up to 2.0 when maxed out. I'm still experimenting with under-volting. Right now it's running a vcore of 1.32V.

This case was built to disassemble easily for further mods if necessary. Other than the front panel, the other wood sides come off easily....no screws, no glue, no velcro, no magnets. The back edge of the metal part of the frame has a lip on the four edges....the rear edge of the panels slips under this ledge. The front edge of the panels is held together by friction. The upper and lower panels have a slight concave warp. On assembly this warp is depressed enough to allow the other panels to slip over, being held tight by the black edge pieces. Completely tool-less construction.

The side panels are 3/16" oak plywood...thin stuff. It's stained with Ebony stain, and will be finished with semi-gloss poly-urethane. There are four little foam feet on the bottom.

This setup has three passive intakes, as the pictures show. When sitting on the right side of a monitor, none of the intakes faces the user. The top exhaust is louvered so the airflow through the Ninja is angled to the rear.
The user has the ability to adjust the amount of intake from each vent, by the partial blocking of the intakes and checking temps. I was mostly concerned about the 320gb WD temps. Didn't need to be....at 24C ambient, the temp has never gone over 34C.

I spent many hours testing the Ninja for airflow. This duct setup uses the results to construct a case setup in which everything runs cool, with only one fan. The problem we all face with a single fan is the airflow. You might easily cool the CPU, but what about the other temps? To avoid high temps completely I did a few things here. There's a 120W PICO....no PSU temp problems. There's a Ninja that can be mounted at the very top and ducted so most of the exhaust heat goes out of the case directly. There are two "wings" on the duct, so a small amount of relatively cool air is blown on the ram sticks, and at the MB components. This air is recirculated somewhat like a blow-down type heatsink.....but not enough to be significant. There are three intake vents with plenty of area. Some of the intake goes over the card area (lower intake), some goes over the hard drive heatsink (right side vent), and there's the rear intake vent. There's an external deflector for this vent, deflecting any intake noise away from the user. I initally thought this vent would be un-necessary, and might detract from the other cooling vents. As it turns out, with the rear vent open, the CPU temp drops 1-2C, but the other temps are unaffected.

I tried this exact setup with a different board, and a normal P4-2.4. I had to raise the Nexus RPM slightly to maintain the same CPU temp. The other temps remained about the same. On the bench, I had to install a faster fan to keep a P4-3.4 under 50C.....that's about it. Here's a chart showing what happens to this Pentium M setup going from an idle speed of about 900, to maximum usage, where the RPM increases to about 1125. The "VENT" temp in the chart is actually the ambient temperature. As you can see, the only temp that shows any change is the CPU temp.....which is still relatively low.

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I'll complete the whole description of this project in a short while. I'm tired of typing. One fan, low temps, PICO-powered, a plain brown box right now.....quiet as hell. Neat project for me....I'm waiting for a new video card and the Scythe panel.

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Last edited by Bluefront on Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:15 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 3:12 pm 
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Looks pretty impressive, again!

I like the wood inside the case, especially the cover over the Ninja. The old and the new, or tech with a bit of style, nice contrast.


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 Post subject: Wow! That's great!
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 4:33 pm 
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Hey you stole all my ideas for a wood case! :)


I especially like the louver and bottom intake ideas. One question- what's the SPT on the side for? Power Switch?


Thanks again for sharing. That's so ridiculously simple, it ought to be emulated.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:22 am 
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Thanks.....I'm still in the tweaking stage. When the Scythe panel arrives, I'll clean up the wiring. Right now I'm adding some internal dampening foam, and making a new wood cover for the duct. As far as the outside of the box is concerned.....don't know yet. It looks a little plain.....

And sorry if I stole any ideas.....I'm not a mind reader. :) That one external switch is indeed the temporary power button....to be changed later. I got tired of touching the two wires together.

Oh.....the very front of the case has enough room above the drive cage to mount an LCD display panel. This would be the only thing visible from the front....except the wood of course.

Is this the perfect airflow configuration I've been searching for? Maybe. I still haven't tried any filters yet. But with such low airflow, they might not be necessary. :)

The card slots are all filled with low-profile cards, so the airflow to the Nexus is not blocked. But I did try a full-sized AGP card, which I thought would make a difference....it didn't. Even with this card 1/2 the Nexus is completely unblocked. So I would not be afraid to use any full sized card the PICO could handle.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:08 am 
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Looks like some kind of steampunk concept art. It definitely isn't lacking in style. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:01 pm 
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I like wood, but in use more perfect design...so for this case looks too clumsy.

Im working on low-end office computer, minimal design and luxury finish...prototype relase comming soon :)


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 2:31 pm 
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This is brilliant! I absolutely love it, work in progress or not! I gotta show this to my cousin, cos I think if you start making them, you'll have at least a few customers...

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:15 pm 
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Heh...thanks again. But I'm not in the manufacturing business. You're looking at a solo project that has taken way too much time to ever make any money selling copies of this thing.

As a hobby, it is fun to do these wood projects. But cutting panels from thin plywood, then drilling holes, sanding, staining, etc., too much work. This is a custom design that I think could be made to work with any number of configurations. I've always wanted to design a case that would work well with only one fan......I think this is it.

That duct around the Ninja could be enlarged slightly so there was a 120mm fan instead of the 92. Some of the airflow would go over the top of the Ninja, but that would give the case slightly better airflow, at a lower noise level....plus the 120mm fan selection is way better that that of 92mm fans.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:33 am 
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I've been asked a few questions about the "wing-duct" on the Ninja. It's hard to figure it out from one photo......but here's a good shot.

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It's easy to imagine enclosing a Ninja in a duct with a fan on one end.....but the wings? They are really just extensions to the two sides that are about 1/4" deep, and open on the side that faces the MB. This allows the fan airflow to leave the two sides of the Ninja quickly, before it has a chance to pick up much heat.

This airflow is then aimed directly at the board, and is not exhausted out the top. This mimics a blow-down type heatsink. The aluminum side pieces are removable for further mods if necessary.....like a different MB with slightly different component locations. The end flaps are adjustable by bending by hand. The airflow out these side "wings" is extremely helpful in cooling the MB components.....without them, this case/airflow design would leave the ram sticks, and the MB components on the other side, out of the airflow path......running hot.

I've taken temperature readings off the aluminum side panels of the wings......they both run slightly over ambient, which is just fine for the cooling they perform. This side airflow through the wings does get re-circulated somewhat......but the effects are not measurable by me anyway. This is my first attempt at this sort of Ninja duct.....and it could be improved by a redesign using a 120mm fan. On the drawing board....
:lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:36 am 
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I'm close to being done with the project.....only a few details and some bling left to finish. One problem.....the PICO crapped out. I think I shorted it during a drive cage mod. Anyway, since I didn't have another, I determined to design this setup to use a standard sized PSU or a PICO. So from here on You'll see photos with a 300w fanless Zen. And I'm having a problem with it also. Due to the low-power board, this PSU won't boot unless I add about 10W draw to the 12V line. I am using a little light visible from the rear. Unless I can get around this problem, I'll go back to a PICO.

Changes since the first batch of photos....

The addition of a 3.5" internal bay, now filled with excess PSU wires.

Nvidia fanless N6200

A new end cover for the Wing-Duct, with a layer of acoustic foam behind it.

A Scythe Kama-Panel with a Pioneer slot DVD.

And a new invention....an internal, adjustable, airflow deflector. This thing has an adjustment of about 40 degrees, changes the relative amount of airflow from each of the intake vents. I spent some time playing around with this thing, checking temps. The way you see it is the best setup that returns the best HD temps. Rotated so the airflow bias is toward the rear, gives better CPU temps, but worse HD temps. If you're a control freak, like I am, you can spend a bunch of time with this thing. The inside of it is lined with acoustic foam, so it also provides some quieting. One photo shows the inside of the side cover, now covered with more foam.

I still haven't got a permanent power button....and I need a light of some sort on the side.

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"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is the philosophy of sniveling brats." - P.J. O'Rourke


Last edited by Bluefront on Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:35 pm 
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nice...I am planning a similar thing...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:36 pm 
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nice...I am planning a similar thing...


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:30 am 
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Great case. Kinda reminds me of a microwave oven.....for some reason....-_-

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:12 pm 
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A microwave!!!!! :lol:

A few words about the Scythe Kama-Panel. The Newegg reviews are accurate, but not complete. This thing has no manual, no software, and a bag of screws and spacers. You're supposed to figure it out for yourself.

The bottom fan panel is removable so you can use a slim optical drive, like I did. But it is independently powered, so You can still use it if you mount it somewhere else. The fan voltage control....6.3V-11.6V. There are lights behind the control wheels.....too bright. On the two fan controllers that stay with the panel, I bent the lights back and covered the bulbs with black marker ink. That fixed it. There is another small light that stays on when the flash card reader is hooked up.

Since I mounted the panel sideways in this case, the wiring was difficult. I found a different wire so I can hook the USB ports directly to the MB. The card reader had to be plugged into an outside USB port.

I never could figure how to attach the optical drive I used with the supplied hardware, so I just secured it with tape.....it's not going anywhere. All-in-all.....neat device that gave me everything I needed up front. There's even enough room to mount a power button in the panel....but I think I'll find another spot. If you really hook everything up, there's a mess of wires. But everything I hooked up works as advertised.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 1:47 pm 
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When I started this project, I intended to use a laptop HD.....in fact I bought one. But after the initial testing, it looked like the setup could deal with the heat of a 3 1/2" drive, still using one fan. It can. But there is one problem....the vertical orientation of the HD, and the size of the case, makes a suspension system next to impossible. Here's what I'm using....a single ledge lined with soft foam about 1/2" thick, all the way around. The drive is held to this ledge by two small rubber cords, loosely mounted. It works ok....could be better.

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Anyway.....the outer removable panel is very light-weight, and even with a foam lining, had a small amount of resonance when you listened very close. So.....here's the fix. 5 1/2 ounces of the new high-tech wheel weights. These things are hollow, filled with steel beads. They are supposed to reduce wheel vibrations.....but they also work very well in this application. No more resonance. Your local auto dealer might have these things. That's where I got mine.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:35 pm 
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ishi wrote:
I like wood, but in use more perfect design...so for this case looks too clumsy.

Im working on low-end office computer, minimal design and luxury finish...prototype relase comming soon :)


we would like to see it....

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:41 pm 
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I"m impressed with the length people goto to make their case silents.
Awesome job


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:23 am 
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The Fortron problem.....As I said, it won't boot unless I add a 10w load to the 12V rail. This is a common problem with hi-efficiency power supplies trying to boot a low current-draw board. Anyway I tried an 8W load, but it wasn't enough. 10w must be the minimum load necessary. Here's my current solution.....I hacked a small desk lamp by swapping a 12v socket from an auto, and using a 10w bulb, attached by a molex connector to the PSU. Works ok..

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This Fortron has always been able to run ok just sitting on the bench.....no fans necessary. The board has an external sensor wire, which I attached right under the wire bundle. At this point an internal PSU heatsink is screwed to the PSU case. So that point is about as hot as it gets. At about 24C ambient, this Fortron maxes out about 49C. Most of the time it's running about 45C.

And I added a little bling.....at least it's useful. Sitting to the right of the monitor, I'll be able to check the CPU temp at a glance, even if I'm watching something full-screen. It's from Jabtech, with a bright, clear display.

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EDIT....I did mean to say something about the Fortron mounting. Be aware if you mount a heavy PSU like this Fortron, on the outside of the case like I did, it is easily shorted out by liquids. And.....this setup can tip more easily now. The bottom mounted drive assy balances it somewhat, but not completely. When this computer goes into full-time service with a permanent location, I may install a small prop under the PSU....just to be safe.

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Last edited by Bluefront on Thu Nov 15, 2007 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:05 am 
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The resonance problem returned. It was hard drive related because it was there even with the fan off. With the cage installed you can see some pf the mount foam, but not all. The whole cage assy comes out easily enough....you can leave all the wires attached, because of sufficient slack.

What happened was the foam behind the drive, between the drive and the aluminum cage, was too soft. It compressed enough to be ineffective. Well that was easy to fix, but it'll take a while to tell if the fix is permanent. What I did was to cut out a copper sheet the size of the drive. This sits on the rear of the drive. I then used a slightly stiffer foam. The copper spacer allows foam to cover the entire rear of the drive, without actually touching the drive. Seems to be working ok. And I'm down to one attachment strap.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:46 am 
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Hard Drive issue....I was never completely convinced the smart temps of this WD 320gb PATA were accurate. First, the smart temp always started out below the ambient temp....impossible. And it never "stepped" up after a while. It just rose gradually. Then when I actually measured the temps off various parts of the HD blue heatsink, they measured almost 6C above the smart temp. So.....the 34C I was reading, was actually 40C.

That's a little high for me in an ambient temp of 24C. So I determined to try out a dedicated "spot" fan. If I keep using this 3.5" drive, this 60x15 Sunon fan, at about 4V (800rpm), will do the trick. The drive is now running at a real 32C. The alternative solution without this second fan.....opening up the bottom intake to extend all the way over to the HD, or start using a laptop drive (which was the original plan anyway). This fan at that low rpm is inaudible to me.

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The fan is actually soft-mounted. The aluminum bracket is really an extended part of the HD soft mount system. The bracket is cut from a .032thou sheet. There are pieces of 4mm foam on each side. this keeps the end of the drive from touching the main drive cage. Working ok so far. :D

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:53 am 
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The little HD fan is working good. The only time I can hear it is during start-up, when It gets 12V for a second or so. Then the "Silent Bios" takes over and it turns off. After Windows loads, the AOpen Series tool takes over. So I have it set for a manual "Low" speed.....about 4V. It's hard to see from a 2D photo....but this fan is actually blowing ambient temp air on the drive. I added some deflectors to the fan edges, so the fan is drawing air from the rear vent, past the rear of the main CPU duct. There is about a 1" wide channel there, from the CPU duct to the outer case panel. Hard to see....

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:09 am 
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After much testing to make sure the setup could handle everything I do with a computer, and would run quietly without any hint of over-heating, this SFF is now my main computer in the living room. It has replaced a tower computer that used to sit next to the desk. This SFF is small enough to sit behind the monitor, and since the single Kama-Panel faces the side, I can insert an optical disk, or plug in any other media easily. I have a USB floppy reader sitting on the top (I still use a Mavica that uses floppy media).

I bought an external Samsung DVD drive that sits to the left of the monitor, on top of a Panasonic #1970 SVHS editing deck. The audio system is a small unit that sits on top of the DVD drive. Everything is right there. The mouse surface pulls out from above the keyboard drawer, so I use it left-handed. The recliner pivots around to face the keyboard if I'm doing much typing. Most of the time it faces the TV which is not in the photos.

This setup seems to work very well, much better than the tower setup I used for several years. I gained some floor space, and the wiring is more accessible for any changes I will probably make. Having the monitor between me and the computer does block any sounds from the computer....which is now silent most of the time.

The fans are controlled by the A-Open Series Tool.....and I am unable to get the CPU hot enough to run the single Nexus 92mm fan over 1200rpm, no matter what I do(the CPU stays under 45C). Of course this is winter time, and the ambient is around 22/24C. In the summer, things might change. After using the current setup a while longer, I might make a few more changes, but I doubt it. I do need a new recliner.....it's seen better days. :D

This computer with it's unusual airflow setup is working great with very low airflow. I hope to run it without any intake filters. The side comes off in a flash for cleaning.....I'll have to see how it's doing after a while as far as dust is concerned. But it's easy to deal with for any cleaning. The computer is sitting on a piece of thick indoor/outdoor carpet, to prevent any vibrations from getting into the desk, so there's no added noise sitting where it is.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:20 pm 
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:42 pm 
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chahahc wrote:
Great case. Kinda reminds me of a microwave oven.....for some reason....-_-


How about a portable humidifier (the one with the rotating water wheel - hehehe) from the mid '80's! Still a nice setup and well thought out. :D


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:28 pm 
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Awesome!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Silverexpress wrote:

How about a portable humidifier (the one with the rotating water wheel - hehehe) from the mid '80's! Still a nice setup and well thought out. :D


Oh jeeze...There are a number of things this case can look like other than a computer case. You reminded me of one time 7 or 8 years ago when I fished out an old humidifer from the garage because of my sinuses. I filled it up in the morning and turned it on, Then forgot to turn it off and went to school.....It was going full blast for 7 hours in the bedroom. I came back to find I unintentionaly created a freak suburbian amazon rain forest... It was that humid... :lol:....and not surprisingly, mysterious patches of green fuzzy stuff started to appear on the walls a few days later. :?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:01 am 
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I don't know.....It certainly doesn't look like a computer. I doubt most people would be able to guess what it was sitting as it is. In any case, I cannot really see it any longer in my normal viewing position.

This is a different form factor from anything I've ever seen. It's a SFF vertical tower meant to be positioned with the side facing the viewer. This gives it the ability to sit directly behind the monitor with only a few inches of the side visible, with access to the optical drive and most of the I/O ports.....using a Scythe Kama-Panel installed in a vertical orientation.

After a driver change to the nvidia 6200 card, I am able to run three benchmarks at once.....ATI Tool, HD Tune, and CPUBurn. No problem.

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Max temps I was able to achieve at 24C ambient....CPU 45C, GPU 69C, HD 38C. The CPU fan maxed at about 1200rpms, while the HD fan is fixed at 800rpm. Not bad. I cannot hear any computer noise while this is going on, seated in front of the monitor. That's as quiet as it gets I guess. :D

One more thing....I found the AOpen series tool to be somewhat unstable...just like Ralf Hutter found in the SPCR review of this board. The computer would sometimes hang up during the boot process. I think I've solved that bug. It seemed to be related to the exact time the AOpen series tool was opened. I solved that problem (I think) with a free program called StartupDelayer. I have the Series tool set to open with a 120 second delay. So it opens last in the boot process.....seems to have solved the problem.

This particular computer form factor has much potential.....and has certainly resulted in a silent desktop computer for me.

_________________
"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child - miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill disciplined, despotic, and useless. Liberalism is the philosophy of sniveling brats." - P.J. O'Rourke


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