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 Post subject: Tom's Hardware: "Shuttle's New $99 KPC Review"
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:27 am 
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http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/04/10/shuttle_ninty_nine_dollar_kpc/index.html

Sorry, intended for existing "Shuttle $200 Linux SFF" thread and I can't seem to delete this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:37 am 
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How the f*ck can that thing cost so little?

Too bad I won't be able to buy it here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:16 am 
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HUGE NEWS: optional flex ATX FF passive external power supply based on the delta y2515 220W brick. turnkey option for a passive high efficiency psu for low power projects (!)

http://www.shuttle.eu/SeeIT/neuheiten/n ... 62_en.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:20 am 
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I saw that in the article. Isn't there also an optional ICE cooling system? If so, this should allow for an extremely quiet, single-fan computer. Hopefully the accessories aren't too pricey.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:47 am 
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frostedflakes wrote:
Isn't there also an optional ICE cooling system? If so, this should allow for an extremely quiet, single-fan computer. Hopefully the accessories aren't too pricey.

Quote:
XPC Accessories/Parts: Various XPC accessories and parts not found in our eBay store may be purchased directly through Shuttle by calling (626) 820-9000.
http://stores.ebay.com/Shuttle-Store

Found via http://us.shuttle.com/AccessoryStore/Purchase.htm

Their website doesn't appear to have a complete list of accessories available. The downloadable order form is no help. The "See complete XPC accessories list" page only shows a few items.

Looks like you have to phone them to check price & availability.

***

Newegg now lists the barebones K45 for US$ 109.99 + $12.39 Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856101064&Tpk=shuttle%2bk45
No customer reviews yet & no accessories listed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:10 pm 
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I'm tempted to order one right now, but the lack of reviews is sort of stopping me. As far as we know, the barebones version can support an e4500 and 2x1GB sticks of DDR2 RAM.

So the 100W PSU can support these at least.

Does anyone know if, in addition to these, I can add in a graphics card? I'd like to have DVI/HDMI. I was thinking of a PCI 2400PRO 256MB (fanless).

Or would this be cutting it too close?


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 Post subject: Memory/CPU supported & install Ubuntu from USB stick
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:26 am 
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ejp wrote:
I'm tempted to order one right now, but the lack of reviews is sort of stopping me. As far as we know, the barebones version can support an e4500 and 2x1GB sticks of DDR2 RAM.

So the 100W PSU can support these at least.

Does anyone know if, in addition to these, I can add in a graphics card? I'd like to have DVI/HDMI. I was thinking of a PCI 2400PRO 256MB (fanless).

Or would this be cutting it too close?

Agree about the lack of reviews. I never consider Tom's 100% reliable as a sole source.

The E4500 is officially supported -- http://global.shuttle.com/support_list03.jsp?PI=1068

"2 x 240 pin DDR2 DIMM Slots, 1GB per DIMM (Max 2GB)
Dual Channel DDR2 533/667MHz supported" -- http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/K45_Spec.html

Officially supported memory (choose memory tab) -- http://global.shuttle.com/support_list03.jsp?PI=1068

Shuttle's list of supported graphics cards has no entries. Besides the power budget, requirement for PCI (not PCI/E), size may be an issue -- http://global.shuttle.com/support_faq_detail.jsp?PI=766&PFI=1669

***

For those who aren't impressed by Foresight Linux & don't have a USB CD drive, here's "How to install Ubuntu Linux from USB Stick" -- http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-install-ubuntu-linux-from-usb-stick.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:02 am 
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Quote "The shuttle XPC Accessory PC62 is available from specialty traders as of the end of March. Shuttle's non-binding, recommended price is EUR 98, excluding VAT" (~ $150 CAN)

mkawa wrote:
HUGE NEWS: optional flex ATX FF passive external power supply based on the delta y2515 220W brick. turnkey option for a passive high efficiency psu for low power projects (!)

http://www.shuttle.eu/SeeIT/neuheiten/n ... 62_en.html


I'm more interested in their DC/DC adapter - their spec sheet shows maximum of 10A on the +5V line and 16A on the +12V line. What is their definition of maximum? Is that in-line with the peak amperages listed for Minibox's PW-200-V? Because if the 10A/16A ratings are maximums for continual operation (not instantaneous peak amps) then that's a lot higher rating than the PW-200-V, in a very similar sized package.

PW-200-V:
input 12V 18A
155x23x30 mm LWH
+5V: 6A max load, 10A peak load
+3.3V: 6A max load, 10A peak load
+12V: 12A max load, 13.5A peak load
Max power: 205W
peak power: 250W

Shuttle DC/DC power adapter (CP15):
input 12V 18A
190x82x43 mm LWH
+5V: 10A max
+3.3V: 10A max
+12V: 16A max
Max power: 275W?
Peak power: ?

http://www.shuttle.eu/SeeIT/neuheiten/n ... c62_en.pdf

Even at the price premium ($150+ for power brick + DC/DC adapter, compared to ~$120 for Dell power brick + Mini-box PW-200-V) and the increased size, I like this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:09 am 
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the PW-200-V is not ATX v2 compliant and hence will not boot on many modern desktop boards. it is also a major pita to connect it to a y2515 (especially when you subsequently discover that it will not boot your modern desktop board :/)

the price premium is maybe 2x, by the way, but since nothing else similarly specced and prefabbed exists on the market, it can be excused...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:46 am 
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Well that's definately a risk I am taking. I have a 20-to-24 pin adapter, and I'm going off of PW200 success stories here on SPCR. If it doesn't work, I'll have a nice power supply for sale.

There was a thread here - http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=38787

that showed a working system with an ASUS P5B-VM (very similar to my P5E-VM) working with a PW-200-V and Dell power brick.

member Eitheta used a chopped up 24-pin connecter from an old motherboard to make a mate to the dell power supply and wired the PW200 to it. I intend to do the same. I will put a power switch (stolen from an old PSU) on the box that will turn the power brick on or off.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:04 pm 
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well, good luck with that. i have no idea whether it will boot (although i suspect since asus lead the power-on delay charge there's a good chance you'll have the same issues i did on my ds3l), but in retrospect it's clear that the pico is the better solution.

at this point the only reason to go with a PW and not a pico module is if you're not confident in the regulation of your outboard voltage supply. the y2515 has solid regulation on the 12v, and the pico has higher compatibility.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:26 am 
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Well, no, the only difference between a 20 pin and a 24 pin plug is an extra 4 pins for +12V, +5V, +3.3V and ground. Since the pins on an ATX molex are rated for about 6-10Amps, a motherboard that draws >18A will melt the plug. So they give a second set of pins to split the current across.

Thus a small power supply has no need for 24 pins, because there will never be more than a max of 10A drawn.

A machine not booting is due to not enough power provided, not due to a discrepancy between a 20- and 24-pin molex.

See for yourself:
http://www.formfactors.org/developer/sp ... ic_br2.pdf

Quote:
This section briefly summarizes the major changes made to this document that now defines ATX12V power supply. With the move to 12V voltage regulators for the processor, ATX guidelines for 5V as main power are no longer provided.

1.2.1. Increased +12 VDC output capability
System components that use 12V are continuing to increase in power. In cases where expected current requirements is greater than 18A a second 12 V rail should be made available. ATX12V power supplies should be designed to accommodate these increased +12 VDC currents.

1.2.2. Minimum Efficiency
Minimum measured efficiency is required to be 70% at full and 72% at typical (~50%) load and 65% at light (~20%) load. The recommended guidance is 77% at full load, 80% at typical (50%) load and 75% at light (20%) load to provide direction for future requirements.

1.2.2. Main Power Connector:
The 2 x 10 main power connector has been replaced by a 2 x 12 connector. This was made to support 75 watt PCI Express*requirements. Pinout assignments are based on the SSI recommendation.
With the added 12V, 5V, and 3.3V pins the need for an Aux Power connector is no longer needed and the guidance for this connector has been removed.

1.2.3. Separate current limit for 12V2 on the 2x2 connector:
The 12V rail on the 2 x 2 power connector should be a separate current limited output to meet the requirements of UL and EN 60950.



Quote:
at this point the only reason to go with a PW and not a pico module is if you're not confident in the regulation of your outboard voltage supply. the y2515 has solid regulation on the 12v, and the pico has higher compatibility


I'm not sure if I understand. The PicoPSU provides 90 or 120 Watts maximum. The PW200 provides 200W maximum. Is that not a big difference?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:20 am 
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the incompatibility is a timing issue


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 11:40 am 
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Quote:
the incompatibility is a timing issue


I'm not sure if I understand. What is the issue?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:55 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... de32ef15bb


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 Post subject: No ICE with barebones/pictures of interior
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:14 pm 
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Quote:
Since the KPC does not ship with the ICE heatsink, I feel this is important to point out. The case itself already has threaded holes to accept the extended screws of the ICE heatsink. If you’re using the Intel retail boxed HSF, you can just push the clips onto the motherboard. But if you have an aftermarket cooler (like the spare I used) which uses a mounting plate underneath the mobo, be aware that there are a few surface mounted components below the CPU area. If your bracket is plastic, you could just spend a couple minutes with a nail file to file off 1mm of clearance (which I had to do). If your heatsink uses a metal bracket, use caution.

http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewthread/102377/P30/#892900

Nice pics in this post. Lots more info in the forum thread.

Recommend reading --
http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewpost/893209/
as well as --
http://www.sudhian.com/index.php?/forums/viewpost/893216/

K45 runs Vista Aero, poor video score. (Intel video)

Even has OS X (Leopard) running, albeit with a few issues --
http://www.insanelymac.com/lofiversion/index.php/t99009.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:18 pm 
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I picked one of these up. A few things really bother me about it:

1. The cpu is located off-center in relation to the heatsink. My stock Intel CPU cooler has less contact area since it was designed for a CPU centered below it.

2. The power supply fan is LOUD by SPCR standards. Nowhere near acceptable.

3. My 3.5" hard drive makes a lot of noise hard-mounted in this case. It is a WD5000ABYS and sounds fine softmounted or suspended in other cases.

I am debating what I should do with this. Either return it and put my components back into my Solo, or modify it. The power supply is probably the biggest challenge, since I don't want to spend any more on this. I could use an ATX power supply externally as I have done before with a Shuttle I owned before, but then it will no longer be the portable little box that makes it appealing to me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 4:45 am 
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I think a small form factor is worth a price premium. You put $100 into it and got a motherboard and case. Not bad, IMO. If it was mine I'd spring for a pico PSU and a 2.5" drive (to soft mount in place of 3.5").

If you thought this'd be a cheap, quiet computer, cut your losses and shelve it or return it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:56 pm 
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amyhughes wrote:
If you thought this'd be a cheap, quiet computer, cut your losses and shelve it or return it.


Well, it is definitely a cheap computer. If the drive bay brackets where further apart, grommet mounting the hard drive would have been really easy, Antec-style. There is plenty of space where that could have been done without affecting the form-factor.

I may consider hacking this thing up and getting what I want without any price premium. I've done it before with my first Shuttle, an SS51G.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:02 am 
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Quote:
the PW-200-V is not ATX v2 compliant and hence will not boot on many modern desktop boards. it is also a major pita to connect it to a y2515 (especially when you subsequently discover that it will not boot your modern desktop board :/)


Just to give an update;

I recently finished my server PC running off of a PW-200V and a Dell . It is a Asus P5E-VM motherboard, 2x1gb ram, and Intel E4500 and idles around 50W. It runs fine with the PW200V and has had no issues whatsoever.

I will make a new post with detailed specs and pictures shortly - look for it in the General Gallery forum.


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