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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:31 pm 
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The triangular shape of the front intake door vents is probably designed to convert the low velocity, high pressure air at the outside to high velocity, low pressure that the fans operate at. No offense, but the guy who designed those doors probably knows more about aerodynamics than we do.... The shape probably also blocks and disrupts some of the sound from coming out.

On the other hand, if there is no front fan on on the lower intake, a more open intake may desirable.

Measuring airflow, temperature, and noise would be a good way to evaluate any mods. But it would be important for the conditions (room temperature, room noise, etc.) to be exactly the same in order for the measurements to be useful.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:04 am 
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I've played with the P182 for ages, snipped every fan grill, and removed the air filters and the plastic covers.

Even with all those airflow improvements, the difference between case front door open and case front door closed is DRAMATIC, on the order of 10 or more degrees celsius. I documented the massive P182 airflow problems here and things have only gotten worse (eg, more powerful PC components) since then.

Part of my problem is that my system dissipates 350w at load. I pretty much have to leave the front door on the P182 open all the time now, which is a bummer. Performs great, but looks horrible due to the gaping giant holes in the lower and middle fan slots.

So here's my question: is anyone selling replacement front panels for the P180/P182/P190 that offer better airflow?

I would buy one of these in a heartbeat, if it were available. Hint hint Antec / Mike. :)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:48 am 
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You can probably find a case that flows better, but it probably won't be as quiet.

Air cooling becomes harder when the power levels rise. You may want to consider water cooling. Water cooling can be very quiet and can dissipate twice as much heat as your components are generating.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:54 am 
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As I pointed out in another thread, I have found that an overlapped slat arrangement front door really keeps noise down, while still allowing excellent airflow.

I think that's the sort of thing we need for the P18x. I too would love to buy a new door.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:52 am 
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I have a case by them with a door and I carefully removed it an put it in the motherboard/spare parts box. Huge improvement though, yes, a slight increase in sound.

Of course, living here in Los Angeles, the background noise is always at least 30db or so, so it's not a real problem.

The case looks fine with it removed. They designed these things with enough foresight to realize that some people would remove the doors.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:10 am 
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I have spent some time examining the door today and I think it could be replaced by someone with enough skill. I was thinking heavy wood with be the easiest way for a hobbyist - much easier/cheaper to work with than metal.

I myself have no skillz though :(

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Quote:
As I pointed out in another thread, I have found that an overlapped slat arrangement front door really keeps noise down, while still allowing excellent airflow.

I think that's the sort of thing we need for the P18x. I too would love to buy a new door.

Totally agree, now where's Antec on this? :)

Incidentally, is it possible to remove the front door entirely on the P182? I tried a little bit last night but it seemed sort of permanently attached on the left side hinge.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:38 pm 
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It does apparently come off with some effort :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:55 pm 
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Found this in another thread:

cmthomson wrote:
Wibla wrote:
About those swing-out doors.. how do you remove them properly without breaking them in the process?

Open the door (push on the right-hand side), then press down on the top hinge as close as possible to the case. It has a little bump on top that will disengage, and let you remove the door with no damage.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:26 pm 
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Quote:
Open the door (push on the right-hand side), then press down on the top hinge as close as possible to the case. It has a little bump on top that will disengage, and let you remove the door with no damage.

This worked great! I pushed a flathead screwdriver into the hinge as close to the case as I could, and the front panel popped out no problem.

Thanks for the tip.

Since my P182 will be permanently front-less to improve airflow (the difference is HUGE, no matter how much I try everything else) I covered the two fan holes in the front with these $9.99 black wire mesh bookends from Office Depot.

Image

I used tin snips to cut them off at the bottom and they fit nearly perfectly. I wedged them into the front no problem.

Image

EDIT: I just realized how weird it looks in the bright camera flash with the white metal showing. I whipped out a black sharpie and colored all the visible white metal black so it's much more stealth now :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:35 am 
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Nice mod wumpus!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:45 pm 
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I know it doesn't look as good as a closed solid case front, but when the difference is 10c no matter how many mods I make.. it's worth it.

And as I mentioned, my PC (sadly) dissipates ~350w under load now and ~250w at idle as measured with the kill-a-watt, so it's kind of important..


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:43 am 
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Location: UK
I think the Nine Hundred could still be as quiet, or perhaps even quieter for high end systems.

Consider that people find they need to have the door at least open, usually with the inner middle door removed or cut down and a Karma Bay installed to get enough airflow. The benefits of all the dampening are severely reduced since now there are direct sound paths out of the case. Plus, you need to turn the fans up a bit anyway, and the hard drives are hard mounted in the P18x lower bay.

On the other hand, the Nine Hundred has much better air flow so you can run all the fans at minimum. There is plenty of room to suspend HDDs too. What you loose in sound shielding you make up for with lower noise components.

Don't forget you can put something between you and your PC to make a less direct sound path too. For example put it on the opposite side of a solid desk side panel.

Someone really need to make a slatted door for the P18x.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:39 am 
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So after 2 years or however long it's been of P180 ownership, I had never thought that removing the dust grills would make much of a difference. I did an experiment yesterday to bring the CPU up to a good hot temperature (58C) and the hard drive idling at its normal 40C, then removed both dust grills, which only had a little dust on them since I clean them every so often. Sure enough, CPU and HD both dropped 4C with no detectable increase in noise. What a simple, yet effective, mod.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:04 pm 
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I like the mesh mod, and want to use something similar in some major modding project. I was hoping to make two 7~8"x4" meshed holes, and some smaller ones. I was also thinking about replacing the whole back side of a very small case completely with a mesh.

But I've had problems finding good mesh.
I was looking for something black and already treated, and preferrably rectangular holes, or at least rhomboid (I don't like the untreated honeycomb mod mesh).

The hardware stores in my area don't seem to have anything like that.
Speaker grill is probably pretty useful, but I only found circular ones, which are bent around the perimeter, so out of the 12" you only probably get 10" (diagonal) flat area.
Image

I like those bookends, are they very sturdy? How much mesh area do they have?
Mesh can probably be found in many places, ideas? It would be cool to have a case that is completely made out of mesh. :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
The bookends are quite large. You can also go to any screen shop and get some black or grey *metal* screen. After blacking everything out and putting in screens, you'll not notice it after a few weeks. You don't want fiberglass screens like they use for windows, but the metal mesh they use for patio doors and the like.

I got lucky in my case, though, since the case was designed to have the door always propped open as well(so it looks nice and clean with the door open). I got tired of it hitting my leg, so off it came.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:24 pm 
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Searching for 'mesh' on staples did the trick. In the end 'Staples Metal Mesh Super Sorter' was the winner, found for 17.62+tax in the local staples ('bureau en gros').
Image
It has 8 panels a 7x23 cm, and the bottom is 34x23 cm. That's plenty of area. It's all fairly sturdy. Now I just have to find some way to attach the mesh to the case (without being visible on the outside..)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:49 am 
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Luminair wrote:
I won't buy a case without robust input dust filtering, and haven't since the 90s. I bring this up because I want that part of case design to continue to be developed.

I second that.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:25 am 
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Keep the case off the floor, buy a Roomba and clean it regularly... It's really the only way. No matter how good your dust filtering is, it's only delaying the inevitable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:39 am 
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Well I've been impressed by Bluefront's car air filtered cases, if washable a person could have a large surface area filter feeding a pair of intake fans, and use positive case air pressure to ensure that no dust ever gets in.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am 
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Location: Finland
Are there any news regarding Antec's new dust filter doors? Anything on what they'll be like and when they'll be coming out?


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 Post subject: Pictures - Easy Modification Solution
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:02 am 
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Location: DANVILLE, CA
See my next post...


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 Post subject: Real Pictures - Easy Modification Solution
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:03 am 
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Location: DANVILLE, CA
Hi, This is my first post so bear with me. This is the mod I made about a year ago. Very easy (if you're careful) using a Dremel and a vice. Pics below.
This is the end product:

Image

Create a router: Set up Dremel on vice, careful not to overtighten vice on dremel.

Image

Image

Cut slats, dremel speed should be controlled carefully. Too fast and plastic gets melted.
Image
Image

Cutting leaves a lot of flash. Clean up using dremel with wire brush and exacto knife.
Image

This is the first one I did and it is a little wavy, but it clearly works and looks great when you are all done.
Image

I spritzed the grills with Rustoleum black semi-gloss, and then reinstalled them. The airflow restriction has been greatly reduced.
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:58 am 
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Location: Sweden
jeffc wrote:
The triangular shape of the front intake door vents is probably designed to convert the low velocity, high pressure air at the outside to high velocity, low pressure that the fans operate at. ...
You seem to have misinterpreted something...
Fans don't like to operate in low pressure. Instead they want the least possible pressure difference between the sides to achieve maximum flow. In free flow the pressure is (almost) the same, and the flow is high. When a restriction, such as these doors, is applied, the intake pressure drops and a pressure gradient is created that subdue the flow and increase the noise generated by the fan.

Cheers
Olle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:47 pm
Posts: 190
Location: New York
I broke off the parallel to the case parts of the plastic on my lower grill and found no difference in temps in my 3 harddrives.
Image
Shot with VX-9700 at 2008-11-17
Image
Shot with VX-9700 at 2008-11-17

I can't really judge the sound aspect because such an alteration should have no effect on the sound quality from a foot away. And since that is the most important part for most people, I cant say that this mod is really all that effective or worth the time. (At least for me).
But as people have found that it can be useful, i might still try it on the upper fan grill and see what I experience with that.

In fact i just received a replacement for one of the plastic fan grill doors from antec (my previous broke) and I see that they are still exactly the same as the old ones. I would have thought that they changed the design to diagonal, which I think wouldn't prevent air from passing, give a look of solidness when looking head on, and stop some noise from escaping up to the user.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:04 pm 
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Location: S Yorks, OK
wumpus wrote:
So here's my question: is anyone selling replacement front panels for the P180/P182/P190 that offer better airflow?

No, but you could get a P183. The door is a larger version of the mATX mini-P180 and personally I find it ugly.
Quote:
What’s new in the P183:
Front door vents, as well as wider vents along the door frame, improve airflow into the chassis.
Filters and filter doors are integrated as one unit. The doors themselves have been modified to provide greater airflow, resulting in cooler system temperatures.
Drive bay covers are vented and include air filters to provide better airflow.
Lower chamber fan is now located in front of the hard drive cage, allowing for installation of longer PSUs as well as easier cable routing between the lower HD cage and the power supply.

http://www.antec.com/ec/productDetails. ... dID=09184#


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:30 am 
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Location: Denmark
Thanks for the tip :D


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 Post subject: Re: Or....
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Location: US
MikeC wrote:
Actually I'd also remove the dust filters too, as they're kind of restrictive.

"Kind of"? Dust filters are far more restrictive than any grill I've seen. Even when perfectly clean, and then they gradually get worse. It's a simple choice - allow dust into the internals or else live with the restricted airflow.

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