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 Post subject: Antec Skeleton... and P183 & Sonata Elite
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:35 am 
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EDIT BY MIKE CHIN -- Sorry to budge into your post, but SPCR's own coverage of the Skeleton might as well be discussed here, too:

Computex 2008: Antec Skeleton

Also added -- coverage of P183 and Sonata Elite cases.

Uhm... Okay.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=454

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:57 am 
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Like one of the posters on Anandtech said; it has has some potential as a testing station (though there are better imho), but as a "case"? No dust proofing, no airflow management, no muffling of fans/video cards/drive noise, no EMI/RFI suppression.

But, it looks unusual, will probably be over priced and as a result sell ridiculously well. :P

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:03 pm 
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I really don't see the use of this. It's not a case, and as a benching table or test system there are way better options. This construction-thingy is not useful for placing hardware, and is way too small to be able to test all kinds of systems with all kinds of cooling. Quick testers in stores test on cartboard or desktops anyway, so they won't use it either.

Add to that the fact that it will probably way overpriced and you've got yourself a product that's a piece of s&*( :P


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:19 pm 
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I'd like it if it were black.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:34 pm 
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It still looks better than two acryl sheets supported from the corners with threaded rods...


Though that's hardly an achievement :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 1:56 pm 
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Looks like it's supposed to hover.


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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:18 pm 
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I think this would be great for people who use their pc's for the absolute basics. It'll save a lot of space as well. Imagine placing one of these right beside your monitor. As for the dust issue, it should be really easy to clean given its size. Blast it with compressed air once in a while and you're good to go. Maybe even HTPC worthy?

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 2:40 pm 
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I bet ThermalTake designers are kicking themselves. Now they've got to come up with something even more bizarre to let sanity return.
Really, as a prototype its doing its job of getting noticed, but i cant see it ever making it to production.

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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 3:36 pm 
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Looks funny (the good kind). I think it'll have a place for hardware enthousiasts who now have their 'case' open and bare on top of their desktop (like a testbench).

If i had a seperate computer room i'd consider buying it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:26 am 
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NyteOwl wrote:
Like one of the posters on Anandtech said; it has has some potential as a testing station (though there are better imho), but as a "case"? No dust proofing, no airflow management, no muffling of fans/video cards/drive noise, no EMI/RFI suppression.

No closed space means: No fans needed...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:33 am 
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I think it's quite interesting - with onboard graphics or a passive video card, and an efficient top-down CPU cooler (if it will fit), you'd only need a single fan in the top mounting. With air blowing down and washing outwards in all directions, over a relatively small uATX board, I reckon cooling performance might actually be pretty effective. Perhaps even completely passive would be a realistic option, depending on your ambient temps and where you put it.

Dust needn't be a major issue - in fact, it would be a lot more convenient to keep clean than a regular negative pressure closed case setup. You'd tend to just blow the dust off every time you did the housework (admittedly infrequently in my case). You might even be able to put a filter on the top fan and, assuming you were able to run it quietly and still generate enough airflow, dust wouldn't get much chance to settle as long as the fan was running.

I'm not sure about the EMI thing - I've never encountered any issues with systems running in the open air, but that's not to say they don't happen.

The main problem I see is mounting the HDD quietly, but I imagine a notebook hard drive would mostly eliminate that concern.

I realise that's a lot of guesses and assumptions, but I'd definitely give it a go, if it makes it into production and isn't ridiculously overpriced - it does look good IMHO, and at least Antec's case designers are being a bit adventurous for a change, which is something to be encouraged. :)


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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:17 am 
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It is only a prototype after all..... But if the setup were running hotter components, the top fan blowing downward presumably at a relatively slow speed would probably not be enough airflow. There looks to be too great a distance from the fan to the MB......not to mention the airflow is fighting convection currents.

Looks cute though.... but I bet a final version if ever available, will be quite different. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:51 am 
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I think one of the big shelf-type coolers from Scythe, Thermalright, Enzotech etc would be well placed to receive airflow from the top fan, *if* (and it's a big if) they would physically fit... it's a bit hard to tell from the photos. The fins would also be aligned properly for convection purposes, in either rotation, if running passively were attempted.

Perhaps you could have the fan sucking upwards, which would be working with the natural convection currents? If entirely passive cooling wasn't quite adequate, maybe a very slow-running fan would provide enough of a boost to make the difference.

Probably not so good for a high-powered system, but I don't suppose that's its intended purpose anyway...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:21 am 
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Bluefront wrote:
It is only a prototype after all..... But if the setup were running hotter components, the top fan blowing downward presumably at a relatively slow speed would probably not be enough airflow. There looks to be too great a distance from the fan to the MB......not to mention the airflow is fighting convection currents.

Let that fan blow upwards, then. This would help improve airflow around all components.

As to the heatsink choices, those would be pretty simple IMO. There are good parts that would allow simple convection to take care of the heat (just don't use the included fans, or buy TR in the first place). Also, I hear the Accelero heatpipes can be bent pretty easily. ;)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:12 am 
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seems pretty intresting, if you're system tkinkerer, making diagnose or if you need to tweak system stable with OC before putting it case I think that might be pretty useful. But it probably will cost quite a lot, if it ever will be produced.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:19 am 
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Needs to be taller at the top to accomodate most 3rd party heatsinks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:58 am 
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I like it. I think it has a lot of potential as "computer as art" for the living room based home office. Considering that it's Antec that means it will sell for $200, which means it's too expensive for me to buy. If it was $50-$75 I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

Normally I don't like lighting a case but this one screams for some accents - like internally (edge lighting) on the two acrylic side panels and maybe some light for the fan. Set the fan up to flow/blow up and make one of those fake silk "flame lamps" out of it.

The problem I see airflow wise is that the fan is centered on the motherboard, but there isn;t a motherboard out there where the processor sits under that fan. Maybe some acrylic ducting is in order, but again, modding what is already likely to be an expensive case makes it less appealing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Quote:
No closed space means: No fans needed...


Even using "passive" heatsinks like the Ninja and Accelero you still need airflow over and above simple convection for them to function properly. And for that you need either a motive force (fan) or targetid ducting for the convection flow and this has neither.

As a test bench/open access platform these look like a better option if not as glitzy.

http://www.xoxide.com/hs.html

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:32 pm 
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NyteOwl wrote:
Even using "passive" heatsinks like the Ninja and Accelero you still need airflow over and above simple convection for them to function properly. And for that you need either a motive force (fan) or targetid ducting for the convection flow and this has neither.

Note that modern heatsinks like the Noctua NH-C12P are very efficient, and often optimized for passive cooling. Also, the CPUs have finally gone back to sane energy requirements, so cooling them is easier in general. All you have to do is ditch tower heatsinks, as in this setup they would just trap the hot air. The more "traditional" designs should work well enough, on the other hand.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Does it come with a collection of miniature James Bond baddies?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 3:56 pm 
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blackworx wrote:
Does it come with a collection of miniature James Bond baddies?

You nailed it!

Thanks, blackworkx - I knew I had seen something like that before...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:47 am 
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Has Antec stolen engineers from ThermalTake?

NyteOwl wrote:
No dust proofing, no airflow management, no muffling of fans/video cards/drive noise, no EMI/RFI suppression.

But, it looks unusual, will probably be over priced and as a result sell ridiculously well. :P
And no protection from pets, childs etc...

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Modo wrote:
Also, the CPUs have finally gone back to sane energy requirements...
Only Intels.
AMD + Nvidia chipset easily exceeds power consumption of now buried (thank god) NetBurst CPU PCs.
http://plaza.fi/muropaketti/artikkelit/prosessorit/amd-phenom-x4-9850-intel-core-2-quad-q9300,2
(rasitus= consumption during wPrime)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:09 am 
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Actually while AMD does have some power hogs, it also has a line of low power (but still high performance) duel and quad cores. Does intel have a 65w Quad core? Nope.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:18 am 
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FartingBob wrote:
Actually while AMD does have some power hogs, it also has a line of low power (but still high performance) duel and quad cores. Does intel have a 65w Quad core? Nope.
Except that situation is now opposite than during Intel's NetBurst-fiasco and lately AMD's TDP values have been often at the least very "optimistic" while Intel's TDPs are now quite conservative.

Power consumption difference between Q9300 and Phenom 9600 PCs is in class of 50W after PSU losses... and Phenom 9600's specified TDP is only 30W higher than that of 9100.
Alternately E8200 dual core (TDP "65W") takes under 30W so it's good bet that four such cores with slightly lower clock frequency stays below 60W. (and E6850 results in those two pages confirm that)
So assuming AMD's TDP for 9100 is honest situation might be from close to even.
That's while there's no doubt which is the one which uses other for wiping toilet seat: AMD's TLB fixed B3 revision top models have bad time with Q9300! (Phenom 9100 is still old B2 stepping)

So looks very probable that point in Phenom 9100 (and other AMD quad cores) is lower price, not lower power consumption and definitely not performance.
Dual cores based to older well tweaked Athlon X2 design (45W TDP) might fare well in power consumption but I don't think they'll have much any chances against performance of E8x00 serie.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:49 am 
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Quote:
Does intel have a 65w Quad core? Nope.


no, it has a 50W quad core: Xeon LV L53XX. ok, it's a Xeon but still...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:37 am 
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FartingBob wrote:
Really, as a prototype its doing its job of getting noticed, but i cant see it ever making it to production.
That's what everyone said about the Pontiac Aztek.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:16 am 
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HammerSandwich wrote:
FartingBob wrote:
Really, as a prototype its doing its job of getting noticed, but i cant see it ever making it to production.
That's what everyone said about the Pontiac Aztek.


Yeah, but I don't see soccer moms buying this computer case.

-D

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:20 am 
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Computex 2008: Antec Skeleton

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:30 am 
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Oh dear. Forget that monstrous Skeleton, the Mini-Skeleton is adorable! Who wants a cat when you can have a kitten?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:19 am 
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Hmm, I'm wondering about the EU (CE) electric shielding requirements (or something along those lines, I'm a layman for electrics). Will those be met?


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