Go find a 50's-early 60's home - there's got to be one with a bomb shelter somewhere
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Actually, I believe there is a closer (well, closer to Mike anyway) source for viscoelastic sound damping material. I'm pretty sure that Green Glue is based in Canada.HAHA wrote:Have you considered using visco-elastic glue or other such products for panels when lining things (like doors) or perhaps on the floor?
A correctly implemented visco-elastic panel absorbs 8 - 16 db worth of vibration. This technology is frequently used in high end speakers, vehicles, buildings where acoustics is a priority etc.
This will be useful for the difficult lower part of the spectrum.
Some references, products etc.: http://www.swedac-acoustic.com/
Checked out the sites -- Green Glue is sold only by one Toronto company in Canada, and they don't have any resellers in Vanc. $17/tube + shipping or $180 for a dozen. But I want it here now. Today.BeerParty wrote:Actually, I believe there is a closer (well, closer to Mike anyway) source for viscoelastic sound damping material. I'm pretty sure that Green Glue is based in Canada.
If anyone is interested in the basics of soundproofing (and likes pretty pictures), their web site has a good introduction to the subject. Their 5 Principals of Sound Proofing is where I first read up on it when Mike proposed his chamber.
Yes, you're willing to wait... but there are many complex relationships SPCR has with sample suppliers, advertisers, and others you could call partners -- and they've been waiting for some reviews for months. Their expectation that their samples get reviewed -- whether positively or not -- are starting to push in on priorities here, too. I don't know if anyone has noticed -- we have not touched anything that requires extensive acoustic testing for quite some time. I refer to cases, fans, systems. Why? Because we knew the new room and equipment was imminent and wanted to wait until it was all ready to do the reviews.Skirge01 wrote:I haven't posted because I really don't have much to add from a technical standpoint. However, I did want to say how much I'm enjoying reading about the progress, the discussion, and the problems. Well, I'm not "enjoying" the problems, but you know what I mean!I really appreciate the effort here and I look forward to the reviews utilizing the new chamber.
Also, I just wanted to say that, personally, I'd suggest doing this the right way, the first time. The last thing you want to do is have to re-examine all of this somewhere down the road and have to start again. Always think of the end goal, not the short-term objective. In the end, you need to be happy with what you've done and satisfied that it--at least--meets your original intention. Currently, I think you're clearly stating that it does NOT meet part of it.
Trust me... we'll wait!
That's a damn good point, which obviously I couldn't be aware of. Sounds like you need to do exactly what you're already doing and maybe come back to the room at some point in the future.Yes, you're willing to wait... but there are many complex relationships SPCR has with sample suppliers, advertisers, and others you could call partners -- and they've been waiting for some reviews for months. Their expectation that their samples get reviewed -- whether positively or not -- are starting to push in on priorities here, too. I don't know if anyone has noticed -- we have not touched anything that requires extensive acoustic testing for quite some time. I refer to cases, fans, systems. Why? Because we knew the new room and equipment was imminent and wanted to wait until it was all ready to do the reviews.
You might be kept awake by your own heartbeat and breathing noise...MikeC wrote:It might be great for naps in the middle of a noisy day or when there's a too-noisy night-time party in the neighborhood.
Keep in mind that they won't be any quieter, the fans won't change one iota -- they'll simply measure better.xev wrote:That's quite interesting. Looks like scythes and most other quite fans will prove to be even quieter than tested previously, making them appear even better.
This is the line of thinking that made me disdain anechoic chamber measurements for a while. However, the basic reasoning is flawed. Measuring the fan in a noisier ambient simply means you're getting more of the ambient and less of the fan in your measurement.xev wrote:However, I think that more ambient noise gives a more realistic sound measurement for most users. As nobody (I assume) has such sound isolating rooms for regular computer use, having a little bit more surrounding sound will give more realistic fan performance.
I should hope not!MikeC wrote:You're right about the principles of soundproofing page -- pretty good info, but nothing new for me at this point.BeerParty wrote:If anyone is interested in the basics of soundproofing (and likes pretty pictures), their web site has a good introduction to the subject. Their 5 Principals of Sound Proofing is where I first read up on it when Mike proposed his chamber.
That is closer than Sweden, right?MikeC wrote:Checked out the sites -- Green Glue is sold only by one Toronto company in Canada, and they don't have any resellers in Vanc.BeerParty wrote:Actually, I believe there is a closer (well, closer to Mike anyway) source for viscoelastic sound damping material. I'm pretty sure that Green Glue is based in Canada.
If you are serious about using the product I'm sure you could pick up a leftover tube from someone on-line (ebay?). With your current plan you would probably only benefit from using it on your two doors, so you would only need one (and some wallboard). Of course, you will need more if you plan to use it when building that floating floor. From what I have seen online, this stuff is good for reducing low frequency noise transmission when used on a floor (and walls too, but I don't think it would help your walls).MikeC wrote:$17/tube + shipping or $180 for a dozen. But I want it here now. Today.I've used silicone glue/caulking for similar apps in the past, but they're pretty smelly/toxic -- not good for use in a room w/o ventilation.
I dont know nearly enough about accoustics to help much with your spike and low frequency issues, but I do know that the floor is the only hard flat surface with no damping at all - could it possibly be the floor to blame in its current state for either the spikes or low Hz noise levels.? Could it be tested to any degree of accuracy with such crude methods as to throw a couple of duvets in the room covering the floor to see if the noise characteristics change by 1/2 a Db, or would youre testing have to run as far as a fully isolated (floating) floor to even find out if its the culprit.?There's very little reflection in there -- and those show up as narrow spikes, which aren't the problem. Removing the table won't change the low freq acoustics.
I appreciate your thoughts, Andy. As it stands, it's safe to say...andyb wrote:I dont know nearly enough about accoustics to help much with your spike and low frequency issues, but I do know that the floor is the only hard flat surface with no damping at all - could it possibly be the floor to blame in its current state for either the spikes or low Hz noise levels.? Could it be tested to any degree of accuracy with such crude methods as to throw a couple of duvets in the room covering the floor to see if the noise characteristics change by 1/2 a Db, or would youre testing have to run as far as a fully isolated (floating) floor to even find out if its the culprit.?There's very little reflection in there -- and those show up as narrow spikes, which aren't the problem. Removing the table won't change the low freq acoustics.
I cant claim to be thinking outside the box, but I am having a go at thinking up a quick and easy test so that you can identify your problem and fix it later, leaving you open to put your new room and testing equipment through its paces, or fix it once it is found delaying you testing even further, but knowing that its perfect (withing reasonable limits) and doing your testingDont think I am impatient, I just want to see you achieve your goal and make SPCR well beyond the reach of the best amateurs (and of course other review sites) - your their right now (and 3-years ago, but their is no problem with making everyone else look like 2nd rate amateurs
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Andy
Emyr wrote:You might be kept awake by your own heartbeat and breathing noise...MikeC wrote:It might be great for naps in the middle of a noisy day or when there's a too-noisy night-time party in the neighborhood.
Those oxygen consumption/CO2 poisoning calculations don't seem to take into account metabolic rate, which would be increased by the "ooooh shinnyyy computer bitssss" factor.
Kung Fu wrote:"'Close your eyes. What do you hear?' -Po
'I hear the water. I hear the birds.' -young Caine
'Do you hear your own heartbeat?'
'No.'
'Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?'
Caine opens his eyes and looks down at his feet to see a grasshopper there. 'Old Man, how is it that you hear these things?'
'Young Man, how is it that you do not?'"
You know, I'd love to have the floating floor room-in-room all built and lined with batts already. I know it would have better isolation -- I don't know exactly how much better, but definitely better. It's what I'd prefer to have.dhanson865 wrote:Mike, do what you think is right but I won't complain if you stop here. You've made leaps and bounds over the old testing conditions.