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 Post subject: Silverstone TJ08, passive cooling with a 125W CPU
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:30 am 
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Posts: 315
Location: EU, USA
Built this a few months ago. Not a floor computer, definitely a desktop machine. Will post more pics as soon as I figure out how to post links reliably.


The components:

    - AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 6000+ 3.0 GHz 125W
    - ASUS M2NPV-VM Micro ATX motherboard
    - Silverstone TJ08 Micro ATX mini tower case
    - SeaSonic M12 ATX 500W modular power supply
    - A-DATA 2GB DDR2 800 dual channel kit ADQVE1A16K
    - Scythe Ninja SCNJ-1100P CPU heatsink
    - Passive video card, NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT, ASUS EN8600GT SILENT
    - HITACHI Travelstar 5K160 160GB SATA 2.5" hard drive
    - TOSHIBA MK1637GSX 160GB SATA 3.0GB/s 2.5" hard drive
    - 2 SAMSUNG DVD burners SATA SH-S203N
    - OS: dual boot Ubuntu Linux/Windows 2000 Professional. The 2nd disk is a backup. Disk #1 is copied/cloned daily onto disk #2, so that disk #2 is a live, working, bootable clone of disk #1.


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Photo 1: Front end




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Photo 2: Rear end





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Photo 3: Wide open bored-out 120mm fan openings, that makes a big difference. To shed 150+ Watts of heat silently, you're at the threshold of what is technically possible.






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Photo 4:Removable mobo tray. Without this feature, this project would have been impossible. Some of the plugs and fan headers are inaccessible once the Ninja is installed. But you can unlatch the mobo tray and tilt it back, that gives you easy access, it's magic.






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Photo 5: The Ninja must be installed first, then the mobo assembly slides into the case, the PSU must be installed last. But I discovered that the TJ08 design has a couple of air leaks that had to be remedied. More on that later.




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Photo 6: Almost finished. No these are not fan sandwiches.




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Photo 7: I gutted stock fans and used just the frame. Rear exhaust setup increased airflow through the CPU heatsink. Front intake fan setup reduces the volume of compressible air in the case. Space without a purpose is a waste.





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Photo 8: A closeup. There really was no need for ducting, this case is so small that it is by itself a duct.





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Photo 9: Love the removable mobo tray. Fans etc. are serviceable, can be installed/removed without removing the mobo






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Photo 10: The TJ08 has a gap between the fans and case, causing an air leak at the point of highest pressure, also causes noise and air re-circulation. Fixed by installing silicone gaskets backwards -- on purpose. Part is VANTEC VDK-120 120MM Fan Vibration Dampener Kit. Photo is front intake assembly.




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Photo 11: Fixed rear exhaust assembly before installation







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Photo 12: Front air-leak fixed





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Photo 13: Intake fan was directly behind the I/O panel at the bottom of the front cover (USB, 1394, 3.5mm audio jacks) causing turbulence & noise. This fix also makes the case effectively smaller, and brings fan closer to where it's needed.





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Photo 14: Rear air-leak fixed





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Photo 15: Testing with Arctic Cooling AF12025 PWM fans. Intake/exhaust fans have a "turbo" effect. You can see it in the RPM difference, and through the stroboscopic effect noticeable when you look across both fans.






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Photo 16: The only real mod -- 3 Pin Fan Power Y Cable, Model POW-ADT-3PY (NewEgg). Fans working in tandem, connected "in series" to the CPU_FAN header, CHA_FAN 1 & 2 are unused.





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Photo 17: Hard disk sandwich :)






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Photo 18: Component is semi-elastic rubber, very versatile part, can hold a single 3.5" HD or two 2.5". (KINGWIN HDS-201 2.5" & 3.5" Hard Drive Stand. NewEgg Item #: N82E16817990008)






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Photo 19: Suspension setup in 3.5" bay, using 1.8 mm Stretch Magic. This stuff can also be used to soft-mount fans, instead of rubber screws, 3 strategic knots does the job.



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Photo 20: Suspension setup, view through the front bay opening.







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Photo 21: Hard disk assembly suspended






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Photo 22: Hard disk suspension, front view




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Photo 23: With the card reader installed, the suspended hard disk assembly is "locked-in" with approx. 1cm gap all around.





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Photo 24: The Ninja fits well on the M2NPV-VM without any interference. I still prefer the AMD toggle/clamp system because you can apply the right pressure without having to lean on the mobo, and once installed the locking assembly is rigid whereas the Ninja is basically spring-loaded.


Last edited by Rebellious on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:05 am, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:41 am 
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I'll be brief and precise: Truly beautiful build.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:50 pm 
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Really nice build !! :shock:

and great pics too !!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:43 pm 
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nice indeed- and very well thought out.

the fan gasket reverse is genius! i've used them together with grommets before but never managed to get them quite right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:13 pm 
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Brilliant! You really have thought of absolutely everything. Simple solutions for what I thought were complicated problems. Turns out, I was just overthinking them!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Excellent build and excellent pics, Rebellious - thank you for posting! As others have said, you've made some neat solutions there. I like it a lot.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:47 pm 
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wow. just wow. i might just steal that fan control idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:16 am 
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Thank you and merry Christmas to all. I wanted to post something fun and creative because this forum has been quiet recently (not enough new Antec models? lol)

I take lots of pics, it's the only way I can remember what I've done. My new Lian-Li A17 will be very exotic, when it's finished I will post another blizzard of photos.

After running the TJ08 for a few months, 90% of dust accumulation was in the front intake grill, so the series-push-pull thing works. The "turbo" effect mentioned above and pressurizing the chassis creates interesting intermodulation between the two fans. I got some good ideas from Intel's PDF "microATX Thermal Design", Section 2.3.1 "Parallel and Series Fan Combinations", available here http://www.formfactors.org/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:25 am 
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Hi again...
Sorry to ask this, but I googled "turbo effect" and I'm having trouble understanding what it means... Can someone explain this ?
I can't figure it out by looking at the pics.... Thanks :oops:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:34 am 
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Cutting out the hubs of fans and using the brackets as duct extensions is a thoughtful innovation. Well done.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:43 am 
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Turbo Effect -- for Frenchie


I tested with several fans in identical pairs.

- Scythe S-FLEX SFF21E 1200 rpm
- Arctic Cooling AF12025 PWM 1500 rpm
- Noctua NF-S12 1200 rpm
- Scythe Slipstream SY1225SL 12M
- SilverStone Everflow F121225SL



Both intake and exhaust fans receive the same voltage, so I expected them to spin at the same speed. But in all cases, SpeedFan showed that starting the intake fan caused the exhaust fan RPM to run higher (than the intake). So I concluded that pressurizing the chassis makes the exhaust spin faster, or run more efficiently or expel more air at the same voltage, (just like the turbo on my Audi).

The speed differential is more pronounced at first (when the fan speeds up form idle), but then it levels off, possibly due to air leaks. When I stopped the CPU load (with ORTHOS), the opposite happened, fans seemed to be "breaking" harder, possibly due to a temporary vacuum. SpeedFan's graphs made it easy to observe and repeat.

It's very easy to look through the TJ08 and across both fans. Normally the fan at the far end appears stationary or spinning slowly clockwise (or counterclockwise). It's a stroboscopic optical phenomenon, I took some photos but camera freezes action or shows a blur. I'll post some if you're curious.

So to answer your question, I don't know if google has anything on this topic, I may have discovered it accidentally.





Edit to add:

To run this experiment you need a CPU that puts out a lot of heat and therefore exercises that fans heavily. The AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (ADX6000IAA6CZ) is an energy hog, if you don't believe me check out this article http://techreport.com/articles.x/12091/13

So it's been fun taming the hog ;) By contrast my Athlon 64 X2 4600+ (ADO4600IAA5CU) runs very cool, so the fans hardly ever speed up even at full load.


Last edited by Rebellious on Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:10 pm 
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:shock: Other than the front bezel, this case is exactly the same as the Cooler Master Elite 340.

I built a system in an Elite 340 and I think the top-to-bottom open mesh bezel of the 340 combined with a 3.5" drive (suspended) made my project a failure for low noise purposes.

If you don't mind adding weight, one thing I'd recommend for this case would be two self-stick vinyl floor tiles, one on the interior of each case panel. One tile just needs to be cut to prevent covering the PCI slot air intake, and also cut the tiles so they don't cover the rear casepanel indentations. Your system has everything isolated very well - but the side panels are extremely thin. I think you'd see a huge difference when using the optical drives, and should also help any remaining vibrations that manage to work their way through the PSU and case fan isolation.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:57 am 
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josephclemente --

I agree, the TJ08's panels are thinner than a tin can and fit very poorly. Most of the rivets are improperly applied, whoever built it was unskilled or didn't have the right equipment. I doubt that this manufacturer has ISO 9001 quality certification. The case itself is crooked, it wobbles and won't sit square on a desk. I had to add some padding under one of the feet to level it. Most of the threads are poorly made, so I used nylon thumbscrews wherever possible because once stripped you gotta throw out the case. The front cover is difficult to remove, and all the USB, IEEE and audio cables are bolted to it, which makes it very hard to work with. The jacks on the front cover are unlabeled. The list of problems is long, but the TJ08 is the peferct size and has a unique design.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:18 am 
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From what I've read on many review sites, I have the impression that the build quality of Silverstone cases is first rate, as good as Lian-Li and Coolermaster. Do you think you got a "Friday afternoon" case or is the TJ08 for some reason not up to the same standard as the rest of Silverstones range?

You have done a stunning job on it though.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:46 am 
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Those Kingwin drive holder things are quite handy. I have my SCSI drive mounted at the bottom of my case with Mitron Silicon HDD Vibration Dampeners held in those Kingwin things. If I want to add another drive, I just stack another on top using the same setup. It's hard to visualize, but I will post a thread in a couple of weeks when I get the setup finalized.

All in all quite a nice build, congratulations!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:43 am 
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Riffer wrote:
Those Kingwin drive holder things are quite handy. I have my SCSI drive mounted at the bottom of my case with Mitron Silicon HDD Vibration Dampeners held in those Kingwin things. If I want to add another drive, I just stack another on top using the same setup. It's hard to visualize, but I will post a thread in a couple of weeks when I get the setup finalized.




Yeah, Kingwin part is stackable & interlocking, very versatile.

My original design was to suspend the assembly sideways below the 3.5" bay, with all the cables completely out of the air-path. That's why I drilled the holes you see in Photo 17 (for the 1.8 mm Stretch Magic). But the Seasonic cables were unsuitable. I've since found the right cables, and will probably switch when I have time.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:52 pm 
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Thank you for two things -

1. Not building with an Antec case
2. Building with one of my favorite cases out there.

I've not actually seen the TJ08 in person but have always been fond of it since I "discovered" it a few months ago. Some questions if you have time -

With the modular power supply protruding a little further into the case did you have problems fitting the CD drives?

I have been considering a build with a single 5.25 drive and a single 3.5 drive suspended under it. My thought was that I could then remove the 3.5 drive bay and add a secondary intake. Is that 3.5 bay removable or is it riveted on?

How much room is behind the mobo tray after assembly to hide cables with?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:21 am 
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Wow, really nice assembly. I, too, liked the way you fixed the "air leaks".

The case looks good, definitely not "budget quality". I also loved the exhaust opening without a restrictive grill. The hard-drive "stacks" also look quite useful, as mentioned.

I hope you'll have fun using the new computer! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:12 am 
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Beautiful. I love how you thought of everything and described it in such detail. Great you've been able to cram a 125W CPU and a discrete GPU in there. Love the two 2.5" hard drives as well (what do you use to clone them, just out of interest?). Why two DVD burners? :)

An awesome build.
-- lowpowercomputing


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:12 pm 
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psyopper wrote:
Thank you for two things -

1. Not building with an Antec case
2. Building with one of my favorite cases out there.

I've not actually seen the TJ08 in person but have always been fond of it since I "discovered" it a few months ago. Some questions if you have time -

With the modular power supply protruding a little further into the case did you have problems fitting the CD drives?

I have been considering a build with a single 5.25 drive and a single 3.5 drive suspended under it. My thought was that I could then remove the 3.5 drive bay and add a secondary intake. Is that 3.5 bay removable or is it riveted on?

How much room is behind the mobo tray after assembly to hide cables with?





PSU/DVD is a tight fit but not a problem, see here:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=45269


The 3.5" bay is removable, but as you can see it's very useful, why remove it? I think it also latches in 2 different positions, but I didn't try it.

There's no room behind the mobo tray to hide cables, but there's plenty space behind the 3.5" bay, that's where all the PSU cables are. I can post more photos if you're interested.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:23 pm 
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lowpowercomputing wrote:
Beautiful. I love how you thought of everything and described it in such detail. Great you've been able to cram a 125W CPU and a discrete GPU in there. Love the two 2.5" hard drives as well (what do you use to clone them, just out of interest?). Why two DVD burners? :)

An awesome build.
-- lowpowercomputing




Backup -- 3 steps: I use robocopy.exe from Windows Server 2003 Resource Kit Tools. Then I copy the Registry using Regback.exe from Windows 2000 Resource Kit. Then I apply a small Registry tweak to make the cloned partition bootable, works in Win2k and XP (not sure about Vista). It all runs automatically with VBS script in Windows Task Scheduler. It sounds simple but it isn't.

Why two DVD burners? Copy on the fly, run 2 jobs at once, especially since LightScribe labeling is so slow.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:08 pm 
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judge56988 wrote:
From what I've read on many review sites, I have the impression that the build quality of Silverstone cases is first rate, as good as Lian-Li and Coolermaster. Do you think you got a "Friday afternoon" case or is the TJ08 for some reason not up to the same standard as the rest of Silverstones range?

You have done a stunning job on it though.




The Cooler Master Elite 340 and Athenatech A301BS.450 are identical with the TJ08, so I doubt that Silverstone actually builds these cases. However the TJ08 is the only one with bored-out 120mm fan openings. So I don't understand why so many here keep cutting, drilling, sanding, gluing and dremelling Antec cases to remove the grills or add 12cm fan hole up front when they can buy a case like that ready-made with no modding needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:54 pm 
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Ah, I didn't realize the TJ08 already had the grills open like that - I thought you did that. :wink:

I cut out the rear grill on my Elite 340 - it was pretty easy with a Nibbler.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:36 pm 
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Rebellious wrote:
So I don't understand why so many here keep cutting, drilling, sanding, gluing and dremelling Antec cases to remove the grills or add 12cm fan hole up front when they can buy a case like that ready-made with no modding needed.

i chose my antec nsk3400 over the tj08 because it was cheaper(when taking the included psu into account) and smaller.

although having no fan grills is great, it's hardly something that would change my purchase choice- especially since they're so easy to remove.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:15 am 
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Really nice build and wonderful pictures. The Lian-Li PC60A Plus II also has a open front 120mm intake only a removable dust filter grill(screwed) in front of the fan so no drilling or such.

I dont know Silverstone cases but they seem solid but I find Lian-Li cases a dream to work with , superb craftmanship on them.

Overall your build is very nice.....

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:28 am 
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seems like a good camera. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:40 am 
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Excellent build there, compact, tidy and very quiet by the looks of it. I can see your definitely not on a budget :wink:

I was just wondering, whats the noise output of those Samsung DVD writers? I can't stand my LG thing, it screams at me :(

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:32 am 
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Nice choice of case! Might keep that in mind for a friend's build. The plastics for the 2.5" drives are neat, should come in handy down the road here.

Rebellious wrote:
So I don't understand why so many here keep cutting, drilling, sanding, gluing and dremelling Antec cases to remove the grills or add 12cm fan hole up front when they can buy a case like that ready-made with no modding needed.


Where's the fun in buying pre-modded cases? :P It's all subjective, some just like the added customization. As for me? Well, I'm more budget conscious when it comes to a build.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:44 am 
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Nice build and beautiful pictures.

Now the pictures I am about to post make me feel pretty dumb :oops: :P :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:41 pm 
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I would love to get a couple of those Kingwin hard drive things, but i cant find them in australia unfortunately.

I have a very similar setup at home :)


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