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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Location: NEW YORK WORD AND STUFF YEAH OK
iggy wrote:
where are you getting this 30% figure from?

in fact, where are you getting ANY of your numbers from?


if you read and talk with people who watercool, they use a lot of glycol anti-freeze, or the glycol pretty stuff you get for computers (same thing one is more pleasant). they dont put 5% or less of it to the pure water they put in. they put up to 50% pure anti-freeze. at least 1/4th the mixture is not water in all setups besides mine that I have seen. the WW allows for the highest possible % of pure water.

I love how people doubt information yet have 5 posts, no info posted and just blab. it makes responding so much fun.


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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 9:29 pm 
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Vicotnik wrote:
I used WW in my first WC setup but later switched to anti-freeze. Main reason was that WW gives of an unpleasant smell. Didn't care if using anti-freeze instead of WW cost me a few degrees. Silence was my main goal, not performance. That was back in 2002 if I recall correctly. Today I see no reason for WC - air is so much more simple for my needs. 8)


you have an lower powered non gaming system. I mean you CAN game but it isnt optimal. It is a nice system though, something I will make soon as a second pc to save power and run on air.

My video card would max out your pico psu on its own!

yes, my system is almost air-tight and makes no odor. otherwse its terrible stuff in that respect!


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Quote:
if you read and talk with people who watercool, they use a lot of glycol anti-freeze, or the glycol pretty stuff you get for computers (same thing one is more pleasant). they dont put 5% or less of it to the pure water they put in. they put up to 50% pure anti-freeze. at least 1/4th the mixture is not water in all setups besides mine that I have seen. the WW allows for the highest possible % of pure water.


as stated before knowledge /= post count.

you are just making this shit up. the only reason anyone puts that amount of glycol into a watercooled system is if its being actively cooled below zero.

glycol/ww/any other additive should be used in an extremely small amount, and preferably not at all.

glycol and ww have both fallen way out of use, in preference to non harmful fungicides, and silver additives, whic dont smell and arent in any way toxic.

you can check this on any well known watercooling site such as www.xtremesystems.org www.bit-tech.net etc.

lastly, someone asks for proof of your numbers, i feel it is utterly inacceptable to launch a personal attack against that person instead. why do it? i merely asked a simple question.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:43 am 
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those are the same lame sites i have read 1000's of posts of. I took months reading and then talking in IM to people about it. In the end, all of that rediculousness is ended by simple steam distilled water and a concentrated substance like WW.

You can read all about various fungicides and additives and bizarre crap, you can read the lamo conversations about what water to use. It's really simple, really easy. The only thing is when you mix metals which is a dumb idea obviously. Then you might need some super bandaid additive. Also, resevoirs can be made out of anything. You could use glass like I use for fish tank making. Polycarbonate lexan is cheap and easy and welds in a pretty way. shrugs.


all those additives etc, whatever, they still flush their systems, they still use a lot of anti-freeze depending on who you talk to, they neglect to talk about the most simple methods of doing a near permanent watercooling setup. If plexiglass is bad for alcohol in the ww, dont use plexiglass. The ww trumps the plexiglass resevoir.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:55 pm 
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I haven't seen any builds where people use 50%+ water wetter or any other additives, all have been under 10%.

No need for WW, bit of silver to stop the algae/bacteria growth and a tiny tiny drop of dish washing or fabric softener etc does the same thing as WW.

Water Wetter has Tolytriazole PolySiloxane Polymer, a siloxane polymer is a SILICONE polymer which will permanently bond with most rubbers used in tubing. This is what causes the build up.

Simple point is water wetter was not designed for PC cooling, it was designed for cooling "hot spots" ( areas that get hot enough for the water to become vapor, which then the vapor insulates it and prevents heat from leaving the area making the "hot spot" even worse. ) By using a "surfactant" you reduce the surface tension of the water which makes the vapor easier to move from the "hot spot". We are not really pushing the limits of water in PC cooling and have no "hot spots" so it has very little effect. It requires very little "surfactant" to change the surface tension of water.

The best coolant is 100% distilled water with silver, if a noisy pump is a problem add 1 drop of dish washing liquid.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:30 pm 
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Common approaches from WC people that work

check that link out. it talks about how "most use 50/50" and it is the best for mixed metals, unknown quality, or doing a higher end gaming rig with dual gpu's and external cooling parts.

the silver idea is one of the ideas that can work but is completely, irrevocably unecessary. it also provides for no pump lubrication.

ww or simple antifreeze cant be beat for long term assurance

If you use premixed stuff, you are never confident that you can add just a small amount and then more water. Water % is what makes the silent water cooling setups the most effective. The higher you get to 100% while maintaining lubrication and no corrosion, the slower the pumps have to be.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:19 am 
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I don't know what water cooling forums you folks are visiting, but most knowledgeable and experienced people in the many water cooling forums that I visit highly recommend running straight distilled water with the only acceptable additives being a few drops of biocide and/or a silver kill coil.

About the only reasons you would want to use antifreeze are if you're using mixed metals or if you have sub-freezing coolant temperatures (e.g., you're using a chiller instead of a radiator). If you're still using mixed metals these days, then you should just plain stop doing that. Just say no to having anything made of Aluminum in your water loop!

Additives like antifreeze reduce cooling efficiency. Also, antifreeze is truthfully only even effective in reducing mixed metal corrosion when used in high concentrations, which just makes the cooling efficiency problem even worse.

Recommendations to the contrary are likely from the water cooling dark ages of many years past.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:53 am 
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5% or less of water wetter increase the efficiency of water in its ability to cool. More than that you tamper with with water's ability to have a great heat capacity.

Water is very cohesive. It flows and does not mix with itself very well. Some use soap surfactant, I use water wetter. It also lubricates plastic and metal parts.

I have not met anyone who uses straight water who actually has 0 corrosion after 3 years of never changing the water nor turning off a computer aside from people who add some amount of anti-freeze /anti-boil substance.

WW is anti-boil slightly, but works based on surfactants and corrosion protection along with lubrication. You wouldnt use WW only in a car unless you lived in the tropics and it was a 10k+ reving race machine. WW is an additive.

Water becomes immediately corrosive once exposed to air.

Corrosion is directly linked to Temperature.

Data touted about anti-corrosive material needed is based on 180-210 degree temperature cast iron car engines. A very small amount is needed in water in an aluminum block operating near body temperature! Any amount of anti-corrosive additive will stop corrosion. The chemistry behind it is very simple. Computer WC setups have a very small and slow rate of corrosion.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:19 pm 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
I'll add my 2 cents:
-Using any additive in high concentrations is dumb. Adding antifreeze reduces waters heat absorption rate.
-I use pure distilled + silver. I don't like the idea of using something that may react badly to the plastics in my loop -- not to mention, distilled + silver is just very easy.

The use of water wetter is interesting, but ultimately not something I am willing to do, simply because its highly toxic, and whatever performance might be gained from it is not worth having extra gunk in the loop... extra gunk which may react badly.

Obviously this is my decision... I am not saying its the only way of doing it. There are many approaches to WCing, and sites like bit-tech etc only represent a small fraction of people that WC. I know more people with ghetto rigs and anti-freeze than I do with gear recommended on most forums.


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