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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:37 am 
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nutball wrote:
Well there's a few things wrong with this statement. Critically though, no physicist worthy of the title would ever claim that our understanding of the laws of physics is complete.

Unfortunately those are most loudest people. Those who actually know something rarely speak or they speak not in mainstream.

Quote:
No they don't, at least the laws of physics that physicists are currently trying to uncover are *by definition* are global. That's the entire point of the subject, that physical laws should account for every local environment with a single explanation.

The whole process of trying to build confidence in a physical law involves looking for the most testing local environments in which it's most likely to break down. It's not like physicists try to avoid finding evidence that our laws are wrong - on the contrary everybody who thinks they have a bead on a short-coming to trying to prove that short-coming (because they'll be the new Einstein).

Everything in here is poiting a direction or gives a hint. There still are things that affect greatly what we know about laws of physics and can even bend them. We still don't know exactly how would twin sun's make affect on a habitable planet. Would it affect anything in physics or just gravity. We need to go in space to confirm these. Unless something has been tested and its theory, its not "viable" until its tested. After testing we can say: That's how it works.

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a) we don't fully understand the physics of our "rock"
b) our incomplete understanding of the physics of our "rock" works *very* well to explain a huge volume of the rest of the universe


Huge but still not enough so people could be arrogant and disregard changes of far greater being... something what well can be considered... deity like being in this universe.

People use physics and science as well their own personal advantage if it fits their view of world, just like some people use religion for their own selfish purpouses. No thing on here is unaffected by human greed and will for power.

Everything will be corrupted by human nature eventually. But still. Humanity cannot figure out how universe works, until it travels into the stars. Until then... everything is... we'll... Theory.

There's God = Theory
There's no God = Theory

now... what is the truth? Who knows... that's matter of faith.

Even if we ask something from the God and we would get an answer... Could we ever understand that?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:59 am 
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How can you know you are asking God at all in that situation?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:34 pm 
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thejamppa wrote:
Unfortunately those are most loudest people. Those who actually know something rarely speak or they speak not in mainstream.


Well that depends what you mean by mainstream. You, personally, can read the latest scientific literature in physics, astrophysics, and so on. It's open to you, you don't have to get your understanding through the mainstream media.

Just go here. If you're interested about astrophysics specifically go here.

Quote:
Everything in here is poiting a direction or gives a hint. There still are things that affect greatly what we know about laws of physics and can even bend them. We still don't know exactly how would twin sun's make affect on a habitable planet. Would it affect anything in physics or just gravity.


Gravity *is* physics. An understanding of how gravity works on all spatial and temporal scales is one of the primary goals of modern physics.

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We need to go in space to confirm these.


Well, not necessarily. Much of this stuff can be tested from the ground.

Quote:
Unless something has been tested and its theory, its not "viable" until its tested. After testing we can say: That's how it works.


Well, sure but the "laws of physics" as you seem to want to term them simplisitcally that we currently have are those that have already survived many, many observational tests.

Quote:
Huge but still not enough so people could be arrogant and disregard changes of far greater being... something what well can be considered... deity like being in this universe.


"Arrogant" is a very leading choice of words. Or rather, that choice of words suggests that a conclusion has already been reached - and a line swallowed about certain questions being unaskable.

Quote:
People use physics and science as well their own personal advantage if it fits their view of world, just like some people use religion for their own selfish purpouses. No thing on here is unaffected by human greed and will for power.


Yes, there's politics in science. There's politics in human endeavour. The western christian church has a ~1000 year lead in politics and population management than modern western science though.

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Humanity cannot figure out how universe works, until it travels into the stars. Until then... everything is... we'll... Theory.


No, this isn't true. Most observations of value will be remote. We may benefit from a more local view for many things, but it's not a deal breaker for good chunk of modern physics. It's certainly not the difference between "theory" and "law".


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:52 pm 
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If I could ask God one question...

"Will my 1TB WD green drives fail from excessive load/unload cycles?"

:roll:

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:00 am 
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spookmineer wrote:
...but this man also said better be safe than sorry...

Odd so few people feel that way about our environment. :(

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:52 pm 
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judge56988 wrote:
I have friends who are Christian, Moslem, Pagan and Athiest, as well as a few "don't knows".
I've had a few discussions with some of them about their beliefs and what they have in common is a conviction that there has to be
a reason for our existence, some higher pupose, but none of them seem to be able to say what that is. Just that there has to be one. If I ask why there has to be a higher purpose they generally say that "there just has to be".
I really don't think there is any reason, as I've said before, I think that we are here because of a fluke of nature...
As for thinking that things are "straightforward" - far from it! Life can be very complicated, people are very complicated, and as for physics...
I fully realise that our knowledge is constantly increasing and each new discovery creates yet more questions and may overturn previously accepted theories.

That's very interesting that even the atheists thought that.
I would say yes, there is a higher purpose to life (higher=above life), just because within the universe with it's matter, laws, processes, apparent chaos, there exist minds that not only have sensations and emotion but have the capability to perceive truth and falsehood. Here and there we perceive something; more often we are wrong. Either way there exists a truth to at which our thoughts aim. This truth is not a thought, it is the criterion for thoughts, and much of it is beyond thought (if we can know very little).


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:17 am 
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frostedflakes wrote:
How can I talk to someone who does not exist? :lol:


QFT


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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 4:57 am 
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croddie wrote:
judge56988 wrote:
I have friends who are Christian, Moslem, Pagan and Athiest, as well as a few "don't knows".
I've had a few discussions with some of them about their beliefs and what they have in common is a conviction that there has to be
a reason for our existence, some higher pupose, but none of them seem to be able to say what that is. Just that there has to be one. If I ask why there has to be a higher purpose they generally say that "there just has to be".
I really don't think there is any reason, as I've said before, I think that we are here because of a fluke of nature...
As for thinking that things are "straightforward" - far from it! Life can be very complicated, people are very complicated, and as for physics...
I fully realise that our knowledge is constantly increasing and each new discovery creates yet more questions and may overturn previously accepted theories.

That's very interesting that even the atheists thought that.
I would say yes, there is a higher purpose to life (higher=above life), just because within the universe with it's matter, laws, processes, apparent chaos, there exist minds that not only have sensations and emotion but have the capability to perceive truth and falsehood. Here and there we perceive something; more often we are wrong. Either way there exists a truth to at which our thoughts aim. This truth is not a thought, it is the criterion for thoughts, and much of it is beyond thought (if we can know very little).


Just to clarify; some athiests agreed with me that they could accept that there was no "higher purpose", but surprisingly (to me) some alleged athiests said that there must be a "higher purpose"

(In case anyone is wondering, I don't go around conducting surveys, it's just that I've spent many evenings sitting in hotel rooms around the world smoking pot, discussing the meaning of life, putting the world to rights etc. etc. - it's better (and cheaper) than drinking in the bar...)


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:38 pm 
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"God, why did you create Mosquitoes?" :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 11:45 pm 
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"Hey God, are Catholic Priests anti-abortion just so they can be sure to have a steady supply of boys to fondle?" :(


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:00 am 
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xan_user wrote:
"Hey God, are Catholic Priests anti-abortion just so they can be sure to have a steady supply of boys to fondle?" :(
...Nah, no comment. Question doesn't make sense.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 7:20 am 
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no abortions would lead to even more orphan boys (and girls) for priests to molest. :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:41 am 
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Dear God,

Is it silent in heaven? (and can I have that answer in an spcr graph?)

OR

Dear God,

Why do forum posts with you in the title always end up devolving into discussions over the the philosophy of science or determinism versus free will? And is that not as ridiculous as a porpoise commenting on the quality of air?


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:01 am 
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yefi wrote:
Dear God,

Is it silent in heaven? (and can I have that answer in an spcr graph?)


God: Why ?
yefi: Because I can't hear people complaining anymore.
God: It's very silent in heaven indeed.
yefi: Oh that's good. I'm so looking forward.
God: What for ? For your arrival in heaven ?
yefi: Uhm, yes ?
God: *sigh*, sorry yefi ... in that case I have news for you.
yefi: what's that ?
God: According to my analysis you will end up in hell ... *dun dun dun*
yefi: ... oh.
God: You didn't expect that, right.
yefi: But, but ... I have always been a good person ...
God: ... you think.
yefi: Yes.
God: You have done something very, very bad in your past boy.
yefi: Really ? What was that again ? I don't remember !!
God: Ok, I will tell you ... in a PM.
yefi: hmm !!
God: hmmm ??
yefi: I'm waiting.
God: You got mail ... go'n check.

Well, yefi ... have you checked your inbox yet ? :twisted:


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:21 am 
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Now cov thinks he is God. 301.81


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 7:30 am 
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Cov wrote:
...
yefi: hmm !!
God: hmmm ??


yefi: God, where are you?
God: You have killed me, remember?


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:49 am 
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yefi wrote:
Cov wrote:
...
yefi: hmm !!
God: hmmm ??


yefi: God, where are you?
God: You have killed me, remember?


We killed the son, but we haven't killed the father. The only reason we haven't killed the father is because we haven't found him. If we ever find him, well, I think he better stay hidden. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:10 pm 
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JVM wrote:
We killed the son, but we haven't killed the father. The only reason we haven't killed the father is because we haven't found him. If we ever find him, well, I think he better stay hidden. :wink:


Yes, all this talk of the almighty, but what if God were a weakling? I see no reason why God shouldn't be. Plenty of clever people are physically weaker than the average, and perhaps God is the weakest of all, hence explaining his marvellous talent at creating universes.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:13 pm 
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yefi wrote:
I see no reason why God shouldn't be.

I see no reason why God should be.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 1:48 pm 
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Cov wrote:
yefi wrote:
I see no reason why God shouldn't be.

I see no reason why God should be.


I see a reason, or rather a need why a God should exist, but I don't see absolute proof that he does exist. It is all a matter of faith. If you believe, then he exists; if you don't believe, then he doesn't exist; if you are not sure, then maybe he exists.

The bible dates back to around 5500 or so years to the creation of life, but we know from scientific data that life existed long before that.

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 7:07 am 
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xan_user wrote:
"God, why did you create Mosquitoes?" :lol:

Why indeed.

And how about Natalie Portmans phone number :?: 8)

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 10:50 am 
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aristide1 wrote:

And how about Natalie Portmans phone number :?: 8)

Amen brother.:wink:



"God, do you know where i can find a good kosher deli in northern california?"


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:00 am 
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xan_user wrote:
"God, why did you create Mosquitoes?" :lol:

Answer: here
Quote:
And how about Natalie Portmans phone number :?: 8)

Answer: here
xan_user wrote:
God, do you know where I can find a good kosher deli in northern california?

Answer: here


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 11:56 am 
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This is the second time that Cov thinks he is God.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Cov wrote:
yefi wrote:
I see no reason why God shouldn't be.

I see no reason why God should be.

I can. It would answer that age-old conundrum could God create a rock so heavy that God could not lift it. Sure can, because God can't lift most rocks. Even struggles with pebbles.


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 12:17 pm 
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m0002a wrote:
This is the second time that Cov thinks he is God.

The weaker he becomes, the closer to God he feels.

Ah, I just realized that explains why people sometimes feel God when they're dying. That is the point at which they are at their weakest...


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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Cov now you have strength, but soon you're so weak that I'll be the one to steal YOUR lunch box! HA! What are you saying now?

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PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 5:33 pm 
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xan_user wrote:
"God, do you know where I can find a good kosher deli in northern california?"

I may be Greek, but there's room for mandel bread and noodle pudding. 8)

Did I spell those right?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Hi, sorry to resurrect an old thread but after looking for an answer for a very long time I have finally made my mind up.

I have now decided that I am an Atheist / Agnostiker.

I admire the clear, rational & logic views of Pat Condell, which I very much recommend to watch:


Image

Pat Condell videoclip

He has currenlty 60 uploads on YouTube, which are all worth to watch.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:02 am 
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Thanks Cov, thats a man who knows how to speak his mind, the truth, and understands modern weak politics.

Off to watch some more now.


Andy

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