It is currently Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:05 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 146 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:57 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Regarding the "lack of dust filters for the optical bay" concern, the Antec manual on the web site describes each of the 5.25 drive bays as having a "drive bay cover/filter assembly".

If you have small children with access to the room where your computer is located, you will want to lock the door and won't want the power button accessible through the "venting hole" just above the lock.

I have the top vent of my P180_spcr_edition blocked off. I suspect that owners that require the extra air flow of the top vent also will have a lot of noise generation inside the case and the noise exiting from the top will be lost in the overall noise of their system.

My recommendation for chassis fan noise management is to replace the Tri-Cool fans and use a mainboard, like many of the high end ASUS offerings, which has variable output chassis fan headers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 205
Location: Italy
Nice article (waiting for a full CP-850 review 8) ).

But...... what did they drink when they designed the top vent? :?: And why are there that 2 clips instead of 4 simple holes? :?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:49 am
Posts: 454
Location: Where I Am
BillyBuerger wrote:
Seems to be some emotion on this thread. Probably because a lot of people have some sentimental feelings towards it due to the fact that Mike was involved on the initial product... I think it's a human thing.

Agreed. I think people here feel some sense of ownership of the P180/182, and a sense of belonging to it. Especially since it was so enthusiastically endorsed by SPCR when it was reviewed in 2005. So much so that SPCR even released a co-branded edition of the case.

But, as Mike made the statement earlier:
"Even with the original P180, the primary target market was not just silent pc enthusiasts -- that market is a small percentage of the total. It was also aimed at power users and gamers."

So, while the P180 was a revolutionary case made with the direct input of SPCR, that is now part of Antec history. I'm sure they appreciate SPCR's contribution and ideas, but they're a profit making company that's going to do whatever they want and can do to increase sales and market share. Gamers and power users have always been the majority of Antec's target market going back many years.

It's only in recent times that cases built with genuine silencing features that addressed many of the issues of the past have been made available at retail level (P18x, P150/Solo, NSK 2480/Fusion) for anyone to buy. These cases also brought a lot of people into the SPCR/silencing community that otherwise would not have come. Ordinary folks who have little or no interests in modding could now buy a case that had most of the hard work done for them. Previous efforts like the original and MKII Sonata and SLK3xxx were quiet(er) cases that didn't yet take the bold steps that the newer generations cases did later on.

Do Antec really give a stuff about silencers? I think they do, but not particularly that much. Not as much as we would like to think. They want to keep us on board, not lose us at least. Due to a a lack of choices, Antec is the standard. And probably because, while the other case manufacturers talk a lot of noise about noise, most don't do anything worthwhile about it, or have not been as successful as Antec in incorporating silencing techniques into their products.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:57 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
BillyBuerger & Shamgar --

You guys are right on the money. Well put. :!:

Going back to the main issue of the top fan, feedback from an unexpected source suggests it could be the fan itself...

Quote:
It’s not so much the mounting, but likely the fan itself that is the culprit. If you guys try mounting the top fan to blow down, it may very well cut down most of the vibration that you guys noticed during the review. Or you can simply switch to a ball-bearing fan.

Mlore to come after further investigation this morn.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:01 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Posts: 1630
Location: Portugal
*sigh*... when will Antec expand HDD suspension to their other cases?

_________________
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire HD 7970 3GB GHz Edition w/Arctic Accelero Xtreme IV 280(X) | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Blue 1TB + WD Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | Asus Echelon Mechanical Keyboard | Logitech G400s


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:25 pm
Posts: 628
Location: Finland
Custom suspension > Built-in suspension

_________________
Fight spam! The Official Anti-Spam Thread.
Have a nice day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:17 am 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:59 am
Posts: 1630
Location: Portugal
LodeHacker wrote:
Custom suspension > Built-in suspension


By that logic why conform with available cases? Just build your own, it'd better right?

_________________
Fractal Define R4 | Corsair AX750 | MSI Z97 Gaming 5 | Intel Core i7 4770K w/TRUE 120 Rev. C | 16GB G.Skill Sniper DDR3-1866 | Sapphire HD 7970 3GB GHz Edition w/Arctic Accelero Xtreme IV 280(X) | Crucial m4 128GB + Crucial MX100 512GB + WD Blue 1TB + WD Red 4TB | JVC HA-RX900 | Dell U2312HM + BenQ G2400WD | Asus Echelon Mechanical Keyboard | Logitech G400s


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 7:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm
Posts: 284
It seems the upgrade is not big from p182, but how about the p180? Lets say you are building a fairly power hungry single GPU-system, for instance a i7 with 4850/70. Is the p183 worth the upgrade from p180?

AtW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 9:15 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
re --
Quote:
Quote:
It’s not so much the mounting, but likely the fan itself that is the culprit. If you guys try mounting the top fan to blow down, it may very well cut down most of the vibration that you guys noticed during the review. Or you can simply switch to a ball-bearing fan.

Mlore to come after further investigation this morn.

No joy. I tried the original fan flipped as well as several other fans, ball bearing, hybrid bearing, etc, all set to the same ~1000rpm 21~22 dBA. No change, I keep getting a 5 dB boost every time I put a fan there -- so I think it's a combination of unfortunate panel resonance and increased turbulence from the grill/metal -- nothing else I can think of.

BTW, an addendum was made to the review -- Baseline Noise on page 5, as in the Silverstone Raven review. The baseline noise of the two cases are also compared at the bottom of page 6.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 205
Location: Italy
MikeC wrote:
re --
Quote:
Quote:
It’s not so much the mounting, but likely the fan itself that is the culprit. If you guys try mounting the top fan to blow down, it may very well cut down most of the vibration that you guys noticed during the review. Or you can simply switch to a ball-bearing fan.

Mlore to come after further investigation this morn.

No joy. I tried the original fan flipped as well as several other fans, ball bearing, hybrid bearing, etc, all set to the same ~1000rpm 21~22 dBA. No change, I keep getting a 5 dB boost every time I put a fan there -- so I think it's a combination of unfortunate panel resonance and increased turbulence from the grill/metal -- nothing else I can think of.

What a pity :(

However... will the recommended cases page ( http://www.silentpcreview.com/article75-page1.html ) be updated with the last tested cases? P.S. Other "recommendations" pages could be updated too (PSUs, fans etc.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 11
Location: Romania
Hi ,I'm new here and found the forums by searching on reviews for the P183. I just bought the case ,it arived today and mounted the system in. I thought someone wanted some user opinions and live pics of the P183.
I come from A Plus teritory (actualy X Clio 2 ,the one with the 25cm fan) so noise was an issue for me.
What can I say ,the case is silent ,only the top fan is making some more noise as you say in the review. I have 2 Scythe Gentle Typhoon for intakes and at about 1000rpms are realy ok in terms of silence.
As for the hard mounted tri-cool fans ,i have an ideea: since i only have 2 HDD's mounted ,I have a lot of spare silicone grommets ,so I'll use some of them to mount the fans properly. I'll be back with impressions after.
Some pics with the case:

Image

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:02 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 750
Location: UK
Reading this thread reminded me of the one other major issue I have with the P182 which has not been corrected here - lack of drive suspension options.

If they just drilled a few holes in the side of the HDD bays you could thread elastic through.

The supplied rubber gasket mounting system is an improvement on hard mounting, but no where near as good as suspension. I suppose you could use the top bays but that rather defeats the purpose of the lower chamber.

It's still an excellent case, it's just that this seems like a missed opportunity. I agree with Mike C, the changes are all either neutral or good except for the top hole which is a bit of an epic fail. For those reasons I'm quite disappointed. If they made the changes I suggested earlier, I'd buy a new one to replace my current P182.

_________________
http://world3.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 12:39 pm
Posts: 60
Is there a comparison with the p182? yes I know the lab has changed since the p182 review and this is probably too much to ask, but a temperature comparison with it to see if the new holes are effective would have been nice.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:23 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Broadleaf wrote:
Regarding the "lack of dust filters for the optical bay" concern, the Antec manual on the web site describes each of the 5.25 drive bays as having a "drive bay cover/filter assembly".

Yes, this is true. Ditto for the 3.5" external drive bay cover. Also, the filters are just part of the covers rather than being separate. This also applies to the dust filters on the hinged covers over the front fan intake vents.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Alex230 -- but you're using the stock Intel cpu cooler!! Those fans are generally nasty.

Eagle156 -- yes, too much to ask. How much improvement will depend on the components but there's little question the increased vent intake area will provide better cooling. Several massive threads in these forums are devoted to improving intake venting in the P180 and P182.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 11
Location: Romania
Yes MikeC ,but set on the lowest speed ,it's not that nasty ,trust me. The top Tri-cool makes much more noise than the stock cooler.
The airflow is realy good in the case ,i have an E6420 @ 3.0Ghz and it's at 38 deg. C in idle and doesnt go over 57 in load with the stock cooler.
I'll get a new CPU cooler when I'll have some more spare money.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 750
Location: UK
I have to agree with Alex230, some Intel fans are actually pretty good. In fact, I run a stock Radeon 4870 in my P182 and the two WD AAKS HDDs are louder than that.

Sure, it's probably not brilliant by SPCR review standards but in my house sitting under my desk it's almost inaudible to me, and my hearing is pretty good. In fact, the central heating or my Sharp air purifier (allergies) makes more noise most of the time, and the air purifier claims to be 14dB.

_________________
http://world3.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:14 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:59 am
Posts: 52
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
What is the size difference of the lower chamber between the P183 and P182. It seems to be more room to add suspension in the P183 since the CPX-form requires more headroom. I think Antec should have added suspension support. But it seems DIY-suspension is even easier in the P183. Also, the new placing of front intakes would cool your suspended harddrives better.

And also, I think some of the readers here are really hard on SPCR and its staff. If you think SPCR does such a terrible job, start your own site. If you think Antec is creating such crappy cases, don't buy them! So Antec didn't make the "perfect" case. Well... creating the perfect case is really bad business, thats the simple answer. So MikeC has a different opinion than you, that doesn't make one conclusion the correct one. Opinions and conclusions aren't the same.

The problem isn't SPCR or Antec. The problem is us, wanting to build passive gaming rigs.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:30 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Bakkone wrote:
What is the size difference of the lower chamber between the P183 and P182. It seems to be more room to add suspension in the P183 since the CPX-form requires more headroom. I think Antec should have added suspension support. But it seems DIY-suspension is even easier in the P183. Also, the new placing of front intakes would cool your suspended harddrives better.

Exactly the same size. The original lower chamber of the P180/82 is just big enough to fit the CP850 PSU -- no surprise since the lower chamber was designed to fit a 120mm fan. DIY suspension in the lower chamber only takes a few drilled holes in the HDD cage. 3 can probably be made to fit.

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 198
Location: Finland
Proprietary PSU form factor is a bad, bad thing. These kind of things should be done in co-operation with open standards. I'll never buy a PSU which is not compatible to other cases. I'd never be able to sell in when I want to upgrade. I'll never be able to re-use it if I plan to use another case.

They really did this the wrong way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 205
Location: Italy
paapaa wrote:
I'd never be able to sell in when I want to upgrade. I'll never be able to re-use it if I plan to use another case.


Sell the bundle :P P183 + PSU


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:03 am
Posts: 367
Location: Sweden
yukon wrote:
Holes in the door open up a new, direct, and unnecessary path.
If you look at the door head on you'll notice that the holes are way off to the side, with no straight path to any noise source.

yukon wrote:
I'm trying to understand how any of the changes in the case could be better acoustically than the P182.
The opened grills at the front and enlarged side holes reduce air flow restriction. This allows the use of less powerful (read: noisy) fans.
Same applies to the un-centered PSU mount.

yukon wrote:
The ventilated PCI slot covers can only short circuit airflow with the fans defaulting to exhaust, so that's silly.
I'm not too fond of these either, but at least they're not worse on P183 than the previous versions.
If I want ventilation there it's an easy matter to just remove the right amount of covers.

yukon wrote:
Ventilated plastic CD bezels make air filters essentially useless.
The CD bezels are filtered too, you know...

yukon wrote:
The P183 would require much more modification than the P182 for me.
And quite the opposite for me...

* Blocking the top hole is top priority for both cases.
* Fixing the slot covers is the same.
* P183 does not require:
- Blocking perforations around the back of the PSU.
- Opening the plastic grills.
- Removing the fan from the lower chamber.
- Opening up the air intakes around the door.

Cheers
Olle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 205
Location: Italy
With the 2 metal clips for the top vent, is there enough space to put a dust filter above the fan?

Filter like this
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:21 am
Posts: 20
Location: Timisoara
i have put the filter between the top plastic panel and the metal one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 19, 2009 10:21 am
Posts: 11
Location: Romania
I have mounted the 2 antec tricools with silicone rubber grommets (from the hdd cage) and I can say that the noise has been lowered and I can use the top exhaust fan on low speed settings without any high noise.

And about that filter ,i don't think that-s a good idea to mount a dust filter in front of an exhausting fan. I recomend mounting it under the fan ,so the air is pulled through the filter not blown through it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 10:17 am
Posts: 112
Location: UK
There are some solid improvements in this new version, but for me they are completely overshadowed by the top fan mount and new door. A case in this class/price range should require very little modding and with that in mind I’d like to see the following changes to improve the P183:

1. Keep the new top grill and moulding but revert to a hexagonal opening, allowing standard fan mounts. Antec should then include their vent cover from the Fusion/NSK2400 to blank off the top vent.

2. The door has surely only been changed for consistency with the P193. The holes are no benefit to a quiet(ish) system especially as the side intakes are less restrictive. Does anyone actually think it looks better?

3. The lower drive cage should incorporate two suspension harnessess from P150/Solo.

4. Put the power button on the front. The few who want it hidden could disconnect it and use the reset button instead by swapping motherboard plugs.

5. Use solid PCI slot covers to be removed as necessary. The new plastic 5.25 bay covers should remain but the metal behind should not be solid to provide a traditional lower-front to upper-back airflow in low power systems. (The metal would obviously be broken off if required.)

6. Given the above changes costs might need to be reduced. Do not include fans that will be replaced anyway.

I think that addresses most of the complaints against this case without creating any new problems. Unfortunately I can’t see Antec implementing a single one of them, despite already offering so many Gamer/Overclocker/1000W cases. :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:36 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:
A case in this class/price range should require very little modding

It's never been true of any case, why should it be now? The thing costs well under $200, usually closer to $150. The Zalman TNN500, which was over a grand, needed tweaking to be silent/cool, too.

If you're really a silent enthusiast you won't need a fan on top at all; even the test xfire 4870 640W AC system did OK without a fan there. Just go back to the P180/182 threads -- none of this is really new, it's all been covered ad nauseum in the past.

>80% of P183 buyers will never change the fans unless they break.

enuf. I bow out of this tiresome, repetitive "discussion".

_________________
Mike Chin,
Editor/Publisher, SPCR
Support SPCR with your donations!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:58 am
Posts: 144
Location: Poland
I think that there's a simple solution to these "quibbles": modularity. If Antec made it possible to swap parts and customise the case, it would attract a wider spectrum of computer users.

1. Top panel removable - if only they moved from rivets to screws the top panel would be easily swappable. A solid, vented and even mesh variations would be then available in retail.

2. Door swappable and backward compatible - if your old P182 is what you like, keep it. Buy the new P183 without the door if you don't like the new design. Or perhaps go for our yet another option - completely open mesh door.

3. Drive cages with optional rubber straps, or even two different types of HDD cages. One with rubber grommets and one with suspenders.

4. Tri-cool fans optional. If you don't want them, buy the case with no fans whatsoever.

This then would allow for personalised P183 in pre-made configurations similar to this:

A. Silent/modder - solid top panel, no fans included, solid p182-style door, cages that accomodate only two HDDs each, but suspended like in the SOLO.

B. Mainstream - just the current p183 with the usual options.

C. Overclocker - mesh top panel, four tri-cool fans included, mesh door, HDD cages with grommets, optional windowed side panel :D

Now the question arises - how difficult would it be to actually start the production. Antec has already done a similar "modular" thing with the Sonata 500 Designer which had colour options for the front. Maybe it's viable?

What do you think about this idea?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 750
Location: UK
The problem with offering lots of customisation is that retailers will only want to stock one config, and maybe one or two optional extras at most. It's just not worth trying to cater to everyone like that.

Saying that, your first three ideas are very good, and I see no reason why Antec couldn't have implemented them. If they just asked people here what they thought of the P182, (1) and (3) would have come up right away.

As it is, the P183 is actually worse than the P182 from our perspective. The "improvements" add nothing of value for most people since the airflow in the P182 is adequate for even high end systems. The top fan port makes no sense at all, even for hardcore overclockers.

_________________
http://world3.net


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 205
Location: Italy
Alex230 wrote:
I have mounted the 2 antec tricools with silicone rubber grommets (from the hdd cage) and I can say that the noise has been lowered and I can use the top exhaust fan on low speed settings without any high noise.


How did you use the silicone grommets with the 2 metal clips (there are not 4 holes... only 2 holes and 2 clips)?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 146 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group