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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:16 am 
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Can't wait for the full review of the Antec CP-850 :P


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P183: The P182 Gets More Air
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Great review.

I have to say the top fan issue is a major disappointment. I have a P180, and was waiting to see how the P183 turned out in anticipation of moving and upgrading my system. I don't follow Antec's reasoning behind this part of the design.

The P183 does appeal to me as they moved the lower chamber fan from to the front of the hard drive bay. This is huge for me as I use all six HDD bays, and cooling hard drives is vastly more efficient with a fan blowing over them than trying to pull air. I can run a quiet fan at a very low RPM (a la the Solo I also have) and get better cooling for my drives than I do currently.

Better cooling with less noise, is awesome.

I have no metal cutting skills so I'm not sure if I want to go with the P183. I"m not sure that my set up would allow for closing off the top vent entirely.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Olle P wrote:
Now, isn't this a contradiction in terms? Antec CP-850 follows the CPX standard defined by Antec, while the "long, modular PSUs" don't comply with any standard! (The ATX/PS2 standard says PSUs are to be no more than 15cm long.)

Long modular PSUs are a hack. I'm sure they fit a lot of ATX cases, and I'm sure it's difficult to deliver a kilowatt+ in ATX form, so I understand the intent. Hacks work, but not always. To be fair, Enermax's long PSUs appear to be 190cm deep (or long), so that could be called their own "Enermax Long PSU Standard" with the same authority of Antec's "CPX standard". One company's standard isn't a market standard, and CPX is a marketing label. If CPX helps to reduce noise, I truly hope that a company takes ideas of the larger "proprietary CPX standard", creates a similar but open standard that other manufacturers can accept, and then makes a lot of money selling to the wider market. I'm sure Intel would love to back a new open standard that can do larger and quieter PSUs for their highend CPUs & chipsets.

Faster_Madman wrote:
The p183 would be a boring case if it didn't need any modification.

A lot of people do enjoy modifying their cases. I used to, but I didn't have enough time and got tired of sharp edges ;-). Cheap cases need a lot of fun modifications. Unsurprisingly, that's one of the big reasons I started buying the more expensive Antec cases over generic cheap boxes, since expensive cases usually have rounded or dulled edges, while my cheap cases might still have blood smudges in them. For me, some of the money I pay goes toward the convenience of out-of-the-box performance. Helpful modifications like unclipping the plastic grills from the P180 are a dodddle, but I don't like having to drill new fan mount holes and cutting more space for larger fans or cutting out fan grills anymore. I think an expensive case shouldn't have restrictive fan grills. For me, 150$ is a lot of money for the box that holds the computer parts in place; I paid that, but for that I expect the best box. I suppose that instead of modifying cases, I could build one now, but that's even less convenient.

scara wrote:
2. The (door) holes are no benefit to a quiet(ish) system
3. The lower drive cage should incorporate two suspension harnessess from P150/Solo.
5. Use solid PCI slot covers to be removed as necessary

#2. That's what I kept thinking. These aren't silencing holes. Still, more airflow for high performance systems, so if a computer needs more airflow then the P183 is the better case for it.
#3. That really would be aimed at decreasing noise, and since HDs aren't really cooled through their screws to the case, it wouldn't affect high performance systems. I don't have SSD yet, so aside from the slow PSU fan and the exhaust fan, the only noisy things are the HDs. A door helps that since HDs are almost always in the front of the case, but suspension would be real progress in the case's design for everyone. I think the P180 had rubber washers, but not suspension.
#5. I appreciate the intent of the PCI slot grills. The bars increase the frequency and decrease the amount of EM interference that can escape the case, while letting air flow the way it would with an empty slot. Still, in both high performance systems and silent ones, it shortcircuits airflow so that the exhaust fan pulls in warmed air from behind the case through the PCI slots. However, it's an easy modification to add solid slot covers if you have a bunch; I used to collect them, but used them all, so it's inconvenient.

Bakkone wrote:
If you think SPCR does such a terrible job, start your own site. If you think Antec is creating such crappy cases, don't buy them! The problem is us, wanting to build passive gaming rigs.

I think SPCR does an excellent job. It's why I'm here, and not on any other hardware review site. I haven't seen other sites build awesome anechoic chambers, test PSUs extensively for efficiency, or even do actual noise measurements better than "our SPL Meter can check down to 55dBa, and this case with stuff in it was 73dBa with the TV on low". I bought two great Antec cases on SPCR's recommendation, but you're right that I haven't bought their newer ones and I've been considering their competition. The positive P183 review surprised me since I think it is a regression in terms of silencing for the P18x, but I don't have one, it's just my opinion, and SPCR is taking into account highend systems that need extra cooling. I suppose it is the market's fault; SPCR has been the most important force in educating the market and testing manufacturer claims. I think that the best way to get an answer on the P183 would be a SPCR review (no lesser site would suffice) against the P180/P182, noting the modifications (since SPCR doesn't "have an unmodified one here", oh well), noting noise versus temperatures so the effect of the tradeoffs could be compared. I'm sure this wasn't done before because the P18x modifications corrupt the result. Still, if the P183 is quieter than the P182 with the same equipment, then it deserves to be above the P182 for silence. More air intake could mean less air turbulence and thus less noise, so it could happen.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:36 pm 
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thejamppa wrote:
I think I would bend the metal clips slightly myself and "sandwitch" fan edge with soft silicone and then bend clips back on again silicone securing the fan and use slicone gormets on screw side. The metal antec has used in P18x series traditionally has been sturdy, bendable but doesn't breake or crack easily.

I used this approach on my P180, although with gaskets rather than grommets, and it kinda worked. But it turned out to be easier and more effective to just break off the tabs, drill two holes, and use a standard soft-mount approach. I suspect the same would be true of the P183.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:33 am 
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cmthomson wrote:
thejamppa wrote:
*snip*
*snip* But it turned out to be easier and more effective to just break off the tabs, drill two holes, and use a standard soft-mount approach. I suspect the same would be true of the P183.

And since I am a thieving copycat, I did the exact same thing. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:01 am 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/article945-page5.html
Antec P183 Baseline SPL box; L=low spedd; M=medium speed

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article945-page6.html
Spinning at just over 3000 RPM, it struggled to keep to keep the GPU temperature under 100°C.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article945-page7.html
In a nutshell, Antec has reorganize the bottom chamber and improve intake ventilation on the front panel.



thanks for the 'updated' review.

think moving the bottom fan is quite an improvement, far less cableworries with 4 hd's there.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:35 am 
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It's disappointing to see that they haven't strengthened the ludicrously weak door hinge. That and the limited space between the lower fan and hard drives were the only real flaws in the P182. 50% there.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:28 am 
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I hope Antec fix some of the issues mentioned here with a mid-life update/revision *soon* like they did with the P180B and P150s. Specifically the top vent recurring issue. Most users don't want to be hacking up a case they just bought, especially to fix a design fault.

I personally prefer the P182's looks. It is cleaner and more unobtrusive. But I am beginning to like the P183 a bit more. It looks less fridge-like than its predecessors. I do think the top racing arrow vent design is still appalling.

The power and reset buttons being visible and accessible through the door vents renders the door lock useless as a security tool. It's probably more of a safety tool to stop the door from opening during transportation. I know people here can be absolutely fanatical about easily accessing the power and reset buttons, so this is kind of a "halfway" solution. Ditching Firewire for eSATA is not good either. The former is still very useful for many people.

IF some positive changes were quickly implemented in a new production run, I would seriously consider investing in a P183. (The P182 is just about discontinued here in Australia: hardly a vendor stocks it or will backorder it. For the order price, it's not worth it anyway. The P183 does the same job as its predecessors, albeit with some slight modifications. The improved airflow would not benefit me much right now, but in summer temperatures it may help.

It's a real shame that there are still no genuine *alternatives to the P18x on the market right now. Some more case choices and competition would be warmly welcomed here.

*ATX full tower cases with silencing and cooling potential as core design considerations.


Last edited by Shamgar on Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 9:44 am 
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Shamgar wrote:
Ditching Firewire for eSATA is not good either.
Amen. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:49 am 
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For additional reference, Puget Computers has posted a short comparison of the P182 and P183:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=68


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:30 pm 
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confusion wrote:
For additional reference, Puget Computers has posted a short comparison of the P182 and P183:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=68
very nice, but I wish they had a comparison with the fans on medium

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:18 pm 
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A great review of a superb case, bought this one for my game system (was time to ditch the Solo, too many modifications), this puppy handles my CF setup with no problems what so ever, in fact, the thermal results were really good at stock and even better now.

Rumour has it (as a rumour would)
…
that the Antec P183 scored(s) a bit better for thermal results than the CoolerMaster Sniper.

Quote:
...It's a pity and a concern that a company with the resources of Antec can't get it right after so many revisions. But it is obvious they are directing more of their production and marketing effort towards the performance and gaming community...

The result of competition when it promotes cost cutting, production efficiency and globalization, and yes; it is a concern on many levels affecting more things then our belloved fridge.



Lastly:

I really, really like the case and I like the looks too, grows on you and I should also point out that the case (as the entire series in fact) do look better IRL.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:25 am 
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walle wrote:
Lastly:

I really, really like the case and I like the looks too, grows on you and I should also point out that the case (as the entire series in fact) do look better IRL.

Glad to hear you like the case. It probably is still the best mass produced full tower case for silencers. Given the price, it just could be a little bit better. But for now, it's as good as we can hope for until the next revision/series is made.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:58 pm 
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I've just ordered P183. :)

Couple of questions:

1. How should I install my Corsair HX520? "Normal" or upside down?

2. How are those TriCool fans behaving? Are they efficent/silent? Or should I replace them with something else...?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:13 pm 
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sNNooPY wrote:
Are they efficent/silent?

TriCools are effective but definitely not silent: so your mileage may vary.

Personally I always replaced them on every Antec case.

Regards,
Luca


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:40 am 
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sNNooPY wrote:
I've just ordered P183. :)

2. How are those TriCool fans behaving? Are they efficent/silent? Or should I replace them with something else...?


i wish that i had a p183!

the top fan in my p180b started making noise, so i tried peeling the label back and oiling the bearing, but it didn't help.

i think it's the wrong kind of fan to be mounted flat like that, afaik, you'll want a ball bearing fan in there at some point anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:41 am 
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Spare me a seat on the bandwagon. Ordered a P183 and the CP-850 today.

It's probably a bit overkill for me, but hopefully I have got myself a good case and power supply. Upgrading my old Sonata case so hoping there'll be some difference in it as I'm quite happy with what I get out of that.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:47 am 
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After some reevaluation of the P183, I think the design of the PSU mount to fit the CP-850 is a bold and positive move on Antec's part. The straight through airflow configuration makes sense and should help to make a quieter power supply.

While I would never need or even consider buying a CP-850, perhaps the design wil cause other PSU manufacturers to adopt the straight through way of thinking and come up with units that can fit into the P183's larger PSU frame. Hopefully, there will be lower capacity units (500W and less) that will be made with this configuration in the future.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:42 am 
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confusion wrote:
For additional reference, Puget Computers has posted a short comparison of the P182 and P183:
http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles.php?id=68


I was a bit confused with the comparison result. It is straightforward that P183 improves much on air flow comparing with P182, but the test result shows that there is no much cooling difference between these two models...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:39 am 
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netmask254 wrote:
... the test result shows that there is no much cooling difference between these two models...
I'm not surprised, given the test setup.
I'd expect a greater difference with both cases rigged for optimised cooling instead of mounting fans all over the place. The bottom fan should for example not be used at all, it's only providing noise (unless there are four HDDs to cool off).

I got my P183 a few weeks back, and noticed a few oddities.
- The side holes below the front USB and audio jacks lead nowhere but in behind the front filter. Some unfiltered air will enter here unless prevented, but not much since the available path is very narrow.
My solution is to cut away a good bit of the plastic blocking the path into the front of the filter. (Note that the magnet holding the door shut is located near the bottom here, and should not be removed!)
- The air intake slit underneath the front is blocked if the case is placed on any form of soft surface, like a rug.
My fix to this non-problem is to place the case on a small trolley, designed to carry the case. The slit is now >2" above the floor.
- The dust filters are tight enough to impede air flow, but sufficiently open to let fine dust through.
My initial solution is to add thicker filter material behind the standard filters. I might follow up by removing the original filters to reduce the air flow impedance.
- Cable management is hampered by the relatively tight distance between motherboard plate and side cover. My IDE cable got its middle connector right at the little opening between the upper and lower chambers where most cables are supposed to pass by. Closing the side panel requires placing the case with the opposite side down, and then use all hands, elbows, chin and what else to simultaneously press all four corners and edge centre pieces down while sliding the cover into place.
- The clips used to hold a fan in the middle position are very tight fit, and will usually only lock in three of the four corners.
My solution is to use cable ties across the fan to hold the clips in position.

Like so many others I removed the top fan. To cover the top hole I use a piece of 4mm clear acrylic glass the same size as a fan.
- The screw holes used for holding the original fan are tapered, maximum 5.5 mm and down to some 5.0 mm. This puts some very tight limits to the type and size of screw heads to use if you don't want them poking up above the top!

Cheers
Olle


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Bump for a question here - it is mentioned about how the top fan is the culprit in sound, how about using an 800rpm scythe slipstream?

The lowest on a tricool is 1100 I think, so would this remove it from being noticed but still provide cooling by pulling the heat out?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:37 am 
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I think the main question is if it's necessary to have a top fan in place at all.

I kept the rear fan, running at low speed, and that provides sufficient air flow for my needs.
Only with the rear fan removed or substantially more CPU usage would the use of a top fan become an issue.

Cheers
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:48 pm 
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After P183 is released for months, does any one heard some reponse regarding the top fan noise issue from Antec? And do they have a plan to fix it? The worst case may be they don't think it a flaw at all, I guess.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:28 am 
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netmask254 wrote:
...some reponse regarding the top fan noise issue from Antec?
What noise? :wink:
I bet that to the vast majority of users this is a non-issue and therefore needs no "fix". It's still relatively quiet compared to the competition.

Cheers
Olle


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:10 pm 
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Olle P wrote:
netmask254 wrote:
...some reponse regarding the top fan noise issue from Antec?
What noise? :wink:
I bet that to the vast majority of users this is a non-issue and therefore needs no "fix". It's still relatively quiet compared to the competition.

Cheers
Olle


Ya, that's what I'm worried about :-)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:37 am 
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netmask254 wrote:
After P183 is released for months, does any one heard some reponse regarding the top fan noise issue from Antec? And do they have a plan to fix it? The worst case may be they don't think it a flaw at all, I guess.

I was wondering the same thing too. Had a look at the P183 a few weeks ago in person: it isn't as bad as I thought it would be. There probably isn't much "demand" for a "fix" or mid-life update, so I would not be holding my breath for one.

I'm no longer in the market for another case right now. I already own two Antec cases and I will probably end up selling away one of them. The motivation for the industry to improve upon large tower cases is not as strong as it used to be: many users are moving away from traditional ATX setups to smaller systems and devices. That's perhaps why there seems to be fewer and fewer options in this segment, especially for noise conscious enthusiasts. So the bread and butter market for towers then is gamers and performance users, as it always has been. There's probably a connection between this and the increasing gaudiness of many cases and their marketing lately.

If I ever needed to build another ATX setup, I'll have a look at what Antec does with the P18x line in future. It may have got better or worse by then. There are a handful of competitors cropping up like the Silverstone FT01/02 but they tend to be more expensive than Antec's staples.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:15 pm 
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regarding the top fan placement: in case the "extra metal" is the primary suspect for causing the increase in noise level, has anybody actually went and cut that metal out just to verify the supposition?

i mean, i am choosing a case now, and it would take me like 10 minutes to cut that metal out near-perfectly. however if that would not remedy the (alleged) noise problem, it would be a disappointment.

anyone?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Olle P wrote:
I think the main question is if it's necessary to have a top fan in place at all.

I kept the rear fan, running at low speed, and that provides sufficient air flow for my needs.
Only with the rear fan removed or substantially more CPU usage would the use of a top fan become an issue.

Cheers
Olle


There are two reasons I would not consider the P182 or 183:

1. Top fan. Aside from possible noise issue, dust. I just don't see a need for a top fan. Would have been better if they had a sliding cover for those not wanting to use a top fan.

2. The front door. I had enough of the front door using a previous case, the Sonata. Placement of my computer makes using a front door extremely awkward, nor do I need a front door that must be opened to power on the computer.

Thus, even if they solved issue number 1, I still wouldn't buy it. So, what am I doing in this thread? Don't know, guess I felt a need to vent. :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:50 pm 
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JVM wrote:
2. The front door. I had enough of the front door using a previous case, the Sonata. Placement of my computer makes using a front door extremely awkward, nor do I need a front door that must be opened to power on the computer.


I also think the front door covering the power and reset button is a weird design decision, but I've gotten used to it. I only power up my pc once a day so no big deal.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:17 am 
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new2spcr wrote:
JVM wrote:
2. The front door. I had enough of the front door using a previous case, the Sonata. Placement of my computer makes using a front door extremely awkward, nor do I need a front door that must be opened to power on the computer.


I also think the front door covering the power and reset button is a weird design decision, but I've gotten used to it. I only power up my pc once a day so no big deal.


If I recall correctly, you could power on the Sonata with door closed. Anyway, I still don't like the open top, as well as a front door.

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