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 Post subject: Re: Big Shuriken
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:09 pm 
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MikeC wrote:
gsacks wrote:
Odd that the Big Shuriken could not be mounted on the Zotac board, since all of the press photos for that heat sink show it mounted on that exact motherboard. I'd like to see this point elaborated on a bit, since it must be possible. Maybe it needs to be mounted with a back plate and screwed on from underneath?

With the heatsink rotated to keep clear of the case fans, the pushpin near the center and closest to the RAM slots could be pressed in only without a RAM stick in place. But once the HSF was in, the RAM could not be inserted -- in either slot. A bottom mounting might worlk, but you still need access to the top with most of them so I'm not sure how it was mounted. Perhaps with a different rotation.


Scythe sells their own back plate kit. Newegg has it for about $12. If you have the Big Shuriken in house and are planning to review it, then maybe you could get a hold of the back plate kit and test it out on this board as part of the review.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:29 am 
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I wonder how hot and loud the system would get with Arctic Cooling's Freezer LP installed... Any hopes for testing that out? [product page]

Anyway - another great review, thank you!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:12 am 
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Would have been interesting to see the figures for running an Atom set-up in there completely fanless to see if it was possible, and if not how low you could have the Noctua and safely cool it.

Would fanless Atom be doable?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:18 am 
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KadazanPL wrote:
I wonder how hot and loud the system would get with Arctic Cooling's Freezer LP installed... Any hopes for testing that out? [product page]

If you have some mm of more clearance, then a Scythe Shuriken will be a better choice (so even the Big Shuriken, but as it needs more space around the cpu, I mean it cannot be considered a direct substitute for the above quoted AC HSF).

Regards,
Luca


Last edited by quest_for_silence on Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:22 am 
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KadazanPL wrote:
I wonder how hot and loud the system would get with Arctic Cooling's Freezer LP installed... Any hopes for testing that out? [product page]

Anyway - another great review, thank you!

I think it would be fine, not much different from the stock Intel HSF.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:25 am 
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Jordan wrote:
Would have been interesting to see the figures for running an Atom set-up in there completely fanless to see if it was possible, and if not how low you could have the Noctua and safely cool it.

Would fanless Atom be doable?

Depends on the heatsinks on the particular board. The CPU is no problem, it's the NB chip that draws more power. With the Zotac IONITX, it's no problem. Big heatsink, perhaps slightly better efficiency on the NB. With the Intel ones, you know they have a wee fan on the big NB heatsink, and you cannot really run it w/o that fan.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:55 am 
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Houd.ini wrote:
I could probably live with it, seeing how the 2,4GHz Core 2 Duo in my Macbook reaches over 100 degrees when starting Handbrake, before the fan ramps up sufficiently :o

The Mobile C2D chips are rated to run at full speed at 100C. The desktop chips, are only rated up to 85C. That is the one remaining benefit of MoDT (mobile on desktop) -- using mobile chips means you can get by with less cooling. Unfortunately, you pay a big price premium for MoDT and usually have to live with older chipsets with weak IGP.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:07 pm 
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One more typo, Mike. I believe you meant using the Zotec board with the integrated 12VDC conversion would not allow you to test the Antec's power supply...

Other than that, great article. I'm starting to think about building a Zotec-based system for my (almost) 4-year old son - this case and a good laptop drive might be just the ticket.

-D

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HTPC: OrigenAE X11|Intel DG45ID|Intel E8400|2x2048MB PC6400|Scythe Big Shuriken|ATI HD4550|2xATI DCT|80mm Nexus|2TB WD 3.5" SATA + 100GB Seagate 2.5" SATA|NeoHE 430


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:10 am 
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Great review, thanks MikeC!

Anyone know if a regular Shuriken will fit in there? I'm guessing from the dimensions that it really wouldn't have enough clearance above the fan to be very effective, but the "BIG" Shuriken, being 6mm shorter, would be alright (assuming it fits onto whatever motherboard is used, I mean).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:26 am 
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If you read the part where he selects the heatsinks, he mentions that the big shuriken in fact does not fit because the pushpins are unreachable....

although I'm not sure but maybe the seperately sold scythe backplate which bypasses the pushpins might alleviate the problem.

EDIT*: Sorry nevermind i didn't read your post right...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 9:30 am 
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I'm curious on the perceived "quietness" of this case vs. the MI-100 with a 120mm Yate-Loon in the side.

I'm running the D945GCLF2 (Atom 330) in those cases right now and they are more "husssssssssssssssssssshed" than "silent" with the main source of noise seeming to be the turbulence related to the flow of air through the side (I've swapped out the on-board fan for a Scythe MiniKaze 40x40x10 with great results). Going much below 50% PWM on the case fan results in full-load CPU temps pushing through the 82C recommended operational limit. Using the BIOS-based automated control for the fan doesn't get it quiet enough (running FreeBSD, so no automated fan control software available).

I'd be interested in any perceptions on what could be achieved in this Antec case with the D945GCLF2 -- at least for the machines that I don't need additional cards -- as it looks like I can get two 500G notebook drives for RAID in neatly.

If I could get these to be relatively "woosh-free" (perhaps using the BIOS automatic fan speed control?), the price premium over the MI-100 (~$105 vs. ~$60 with fans) becomes less of an issue for me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:58 am 
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jeffinsf --

Without the two systems side by side, your query is difficult to answer. Hard to remember exactly what something sounds like when it was months ago and you haven't heard it since.

My first advice is to examine all the measured SPLs and listen to the sound files of the systems in the two reviews. That should give you an idea. I suspect the ISK300 is probably quieter once its fan is swapped. It will also depend on how fast you have to spin the fan (or fans if you use 2) in the ISK300 to keep temps adequately low.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:04 am 
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MikeC,

did you get any indication from Antec when the ISK400 would be released in the US?

Thanks and great review!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:40 am 
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aztec wrote:
MikeC, did you get any indication from Antec when the ISK400 would be released in the US?

Thanks and great review!

Afraid not, and you're welcome. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:26 am 
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POSTSCRIPT on Fitting the Big Shuriken

After this review was posted, some forum members noted that a promotional photo from Scythe showed the Big Shuriken mounted on a Zotac 9300-ITX board and wondered why SPCR could not replicate this. The following response from a Scythe contact clarifies this matter:

Quote:
Big Shuriken on the Mini-ITX Zotac is more of a joke from one of our tech/support person in Japan, he told me it worked perfectly fine in his experiment, but in order to mount the Big Shuriken, you need to dismount the chipset heatsink, mount the Big Shuriken and then mount the chipset heatsink again.


So if you're willing to do this, I'd venture to say the BS will work fine on a system similar to our test setup here.

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 Post subject: 3.5" drive
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:06 am 
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Is there any way to fit a single 3.5" drive instead of two 2.5"-ers?

Looking at the picture of the assembled system without cover (can't post links) it seems like it would fit fine width- and depthwise, the big question is the height...

How much room is there to spare with the cover on? And if it won't fit as is, is it possible to maybe dremel the drive cage a bit?

First time poster, long time reader 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:42 am 
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Hej! Maybe have long time reading miss thread? http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... p?p=472902 :lol:

I can not say of sure, but first you need picoPSU instead of ANTEC 65W DC-DC. Also small modification of case required, but apparently possible! Or actually maybe can buy ZOTAC IONITX platform of build in DC-DC? http://www.silentpcreview.com/article952-page1.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:35 am 
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Did any of you guys find a better fanned after market heatsink for this case when using the Zotac GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:11 am 
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Sorry for resurrecting this post, but I'm planning on building a low-cost HTPC based on intel's G41 mobo and I was pretty sure I was going to use an E5200, but someone in another thread (/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51004&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30) said something about higher temperature and power consumption when using that CPU instead of an E7400.

I'm quite perplexed with those results. Can anyone confirm it?

Do you think E7xxx could be a better choice (keeping watts and temperature in mind) than E5xxx series?

Ah, and BTW, hello and such, this is my first post here. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 8:57 am 
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reboot wrote:
Sorry for resurrecting this post, but I'm planning on building a low-cost HTPC based on intel's G41 mobo and I was pretty sure I was going to use an E5200, but someone in another thread (/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51004&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30) said something about higher temperature and power consumption when using that CPU instead of an E7400.

I'm quite perplexed with those results. Can anyone confirm it?

Do you think E7xxx could be a better choice (keeping watts and temperature in mind) than E5xxx series?

Ah, and BTW, hello and such, this is my first post here. :)

They're all rated for 65W max TDP, and most run substantially lower than that with real programs, so I'd say "someone" is mistaken... and even if he's right, the difference really cannot be big, it would fall into what I'd describe as product sample variance.

btw, welcome to spcr. :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:32 pm 
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I've got the case running.

Jesus... This *IS* silence :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:02 am 
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I have a question how could a 65W power adapter power up a motherboard with CPU alone already 65W+?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:28 am 
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sluk wrote:
I have a question how could a 65W power adapter power up a motherboard with CPU alone already 65W+?

65W is the TDP of the E7200 CPU -- but this does not mean every E7200 actually draws 65W when "100% loaded" on every program. TDP has always been something of an average power estimate that system integrators have used to design the CPU cooling systems around. In the days of the P4 and Prescott, Intel's TDP figures were usually lower than the actual maximum power its CPUs could draw, but with the Core2 architecture, we've never been able to get anywhere close to the TDP of any processors. This also holds true for AMD chips. Keep in mind that Prime95 and CPUBurn, the most power demanding of any CPU stress utilities we've found, draw more power continuously than any real application you're ever likely to use, too.

The Power Notes on p.7 of the article tells of real measurements on that system:
Quote:
During thermal/load testing, the AC power consumption at full load started at 60W and increased slowly to a maximum of 66W. With the coolest configuration tested, the maximum power dropped slightly to 63W. This shows that the motherboard VRM and/or the DC/DC converter efficiency drops as they get hotter. It may also be the case that both were red-lined by the system's power demand when the system was not cooled adequately. The second fan caused no clearly measurable increase in power; the increase was probably within the margin of error of the power meter (under 1W).

Because AC power demand was 66W, we can surmise that the DC power output of the adapter was around 56W -- Antec specifies 85% min efficiency for the adapter. That tells you the real power demand of the CPU was probably not higher than 45W.

I've been power testing a brand new AMD Phenom2 965 rated for 125W TDP recently. At stock settings, our sample pulls only 108W at the 2x12V Aux12V socket, which is where the motherboard gets all the power for the CPU. 108W isn't actually all going to the CPU -- the 12V feed goes to the VRMs (DC/DC converters) which downvolts it to 1.25V for the CPU. There are conversion losses, energy lost as heat, which is why VRMs get hot. The best efficiency we can assume for any motherboard is probably ~90%. More typically it is less than that -- depends on the board class; a server board usually has higher efficiency. Anyway, all this means that our 125W TDP CPU only pulls maybe 95W with the most stressful utility we can throw at it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:44 am 
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Thanks for the detailed explanation. Dose it make any sense to change a 90W power adapter or it won't make any different without upgrade the DC/DC power board inside?

I assume my configuration below should be safe to use with the stock Antec ISK 300-65?

Zotac GeForce 9300-ITX WiFi
Celeron E3200 2.40GHz 45nm 65W
2GB Memory
1 x 2.5" HD
Stock Antec fan + Stock Intel Heatsink fan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 7:17 am 
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sluk wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Dose it make any sense to change a 90W power adapter or it won't make any different without upgrade the DC/DC power board inside? ---- I assume my configuration below should be safe to use with the stock Antec ISK 300-65?

I suspect the DC/DC board CAN provide higher than 65W output. But with your config, there's no compelling reason to do swap the adapter, 65W is enough. If you were going to do it, I'd suggest picking a very high efficiency model of >70W from Energy Star's list of approved "AC-DC EPS" adapters:
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=e ... _consumers

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:44 am 
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sluk wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. Dose it make any sense to change a 90W power adapter or it won't make any different without upgrade the DC/DC power board inside?


As MikeC said, the DC/DC adapter should provide more than 65W. I don't know why but I'm sure I read somewhere that the psu was specified to reach 90W. I think changing the brick should be enough.

Anyway, I'm using stock psu and brick to power my HTPC, and I've been using it lately to compress video and ripping and such and the brick gets a little bit warm, but that's it. (My E5200 is undervolted to minimum)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:55 pm 
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I have a 90W brick which is left behind from a Dell Inspiron 8600, however, it output 19.5V instead of 19V, don't know if it suitable for use, or I can just give it a test.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 5:29 am 
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Ther should be several psu options like the 150W pico psu or the 280W fanless psu. maby a little overkill but it should work :D

http://www.vendur.no/catalog/product_in ... anguage=en


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:58 pm 
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FYI, Antec reply the DC-ATX board of this case support up to 100W power brick.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 6:10 am 
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sluk wrote:
FYI, Antec reply the DC-ATX board of this case support up to 100W power brick.



anyone know of a nice powerbrick that can be used?


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