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 Post subject: Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo


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 Post subject: Re: Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:51 pm 
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Quote:
Ironically, the fact that they make no noise at all (with a few exceptions) takes them off our radar


oh really?:P

last time I searched for a LCD I was able to find someone mentioning noise in all of the models that I considered :)
and my dell 2209wa does buzz and whine a little...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:55 pm 
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My LG wide 22" is the loudest component of my set. The rest is almost silent, thanks to SPCR :)


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 Post subject: Re: Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:10 am 
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czesiu wrote:
my dell 2209wa does buzz and whine a little...


you shouldn't settle for your monitor making noise. There are several ways you can troubleshoot the sound. When I first bought my 22" samsung, it was making a faint humming. After troubleshooting, I found out that increasing or decreasing the brightness ever so slightly would completely mute the sound it was once making.

Still, if that doesn't work, your monitor is either a poor design, or is defective in some way. Just goes to show the importance of researching before you buy

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 Post subject: Re: Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:24 am 
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RoGuE wrote:
czesiu wrote:
my dell 2209wa does buzz and whine a little...


you shouldn't settle for your monitor making noise. There are several ways you can troubleshoot the sound. When I first bought my 22" samsung, it was making a faint humming. After troubleshooting, I found out that increasing or decreasing the brightness ever so slightly would completely mute the sound it was once making.

Still, if that doesn't work, your monitor is either a poor design, or is defective in some way. Just goes to show the importance of researching before you buy


brightness = 100 and yes it eliminates the buzz, slight whine is still there as it depends more on what it's displayed

researching is useful only to some extent because each monitor(unit) is different


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:10 am 
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If you're going to review monitors, you need to specify the panel type right up front. Since both of these monitors have viewing angles less than or equal to 170 degrees, they're probably TN panels. The color shifting you saw is a function of TNs. Here's a summary of the panel types from:

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview ... erthread=y

Quote:
* TN
o Good response time
o Very good dynamic range (400:1 with older generation, 700 - 1000:1 with newer gen TNs)
o Poor vertical viewing angle (especially from below)
o Poor screen uniformity and stability (white can look "dirty"), which can reduce perceived contrast
o Lateral viewing angle is not great (darker/lighter details can appear and disappear depending on the angle)
o 8-bit gradient (16.7M colors) through dithering and FRC
o Lack of true 8-bit DAC causes color tinting, fringing, and burning in gradients and poor reproduction of darker tones
o Very unlikely to get image persistence
o Low input lag (lower latency in screen update)
o Economical, but more prone to backlight bleeding and QC (quality control) problems than other panel types, too

Target Audience:

Gamers, general use (Word/Excel) who don't mind a poorer viewing angle. Less suitable for movies and poor for photo editing.


* VA
o Decent response time (varies)
o Great dynamic range (1000:1 - 1500:1)
o Horizontal color shift (certain gray tones rapidly shift at just a few degrees, worse than TNs in many cases)
o Image details absent at perpendicular angle
o Good vertical viewing angle
o Good screen uniformity (white is uniform and does not shift at angles, contrast is decent)
o 8-bit gradient (16.7M colors) through true 8-bit DAC (although dithering is possible with certain models)
o True 8-bit DAC allows better reproduction of gradients and sometimes better dark tones than TN panels
o Unlikely to get image persistence
o High input lag (high latency in screen update)
o Good value, and the least QC problems of all panels

Target Audience:

Gamers, general use (Word/Excel) who want a more stable viewing angle. OK for photo editing, although beware of color shifting. Not bad for movies, but not always great due to color shift.


* IPS
o Decent response time
o Medium dynamic range (400:1) or higher for AS-IPS/H-IPS/A-TW-IPS (700:1)
o Minimal color shift at any viewing angle (only slight brightness reduction, and very little gamma/tint shift)
o Image details present across entire screen
o Good screen uniformity (white is uniform and does not shift at angles, contrast is amazing)
o 8-bit gradient (16.7M colors) through true 8-bit DAC (although dithering is possible with certain models)
o True 8-bit DAC allows better reproduction of gradients and sometimes better dark tones than TN panels
o More neutral grayscale reproduction and warmer, less harsh image (most like a CRT) than S-PVA panels
o Medium input lag (low or high depending on model)
o More susceptible to image persistence
o Tends to be very expensive although benefits can be visible to normal users
o Prone to quality control problems: read reviews

Target Audience:

Photo editors will crave this type of panel. IPS-type panels are suitable and generally better for anything else too, including gaming and general use. Some people may prefer an S-PVA for higher dynamic range but an IPS panel, due to its viewing angle characteristics, probably has a higher contrast (ability of the LCD to reliably reproduce tones and nuances).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:20 am 
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Interesting read to complement another review I read from Finnish IT magazines. Just one question: why so small? 19-20" feels like a blast from the past now.

And I don't get why 16:9 is a good thing or even acceptable; it's just less pixels for, in some cases, the same money! If there's no intense backlight bleed, why would the black bars while watching 16:9 movies in 16:10 bother anyone? And it's not like all movies and videos come in 16:9 anyway. It reminds me of how Apple marketed the lack of a display on their Shuffle models as a Good Thing... :lol:

For those interested, the review I'm referring to is in the Finnish MikroPC (mPC) magazine, issue 9/2009. They reviewed four "green" 22-24" displays; a NEC and an Eizo came out on top, Acer and Lenovo were the other two. To be specific, NEC Multisync EA221WMe was their choice, followed by Eizo Flexscan EV2303W-H (identical score but different reasons why, and the NEC was much cheaper). The Acer B223W and Lenovo Thinkvision L2440x lost mainly on image quality issues.

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 Post subject: Re: Low Power Monitors from Samsung and Lenovo
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:43 am 
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Quote:
Ironically, the fact that they make no noise at all (with a few exceptions) takes them off our radar


It seems quite a few SPCR readers - myself includet - would not agree with this: Quiet / Noisy Monitor Survey


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:44 am 
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the article wrote:
Ironically, the fact that they make no noise at all


Am I too extreme for SPCR or is SPCR too mainstream for me?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:54 am 
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As for the Samsungs "Starlight tough buttons", these seem to be a case of technology over use. Where since we have the ability to do something, we must. These touch buttons can be useful in some cases. I remember a similar thing being used on an HP laptop I think for the volume. Slide to the right to turn up the volume, left to turn down. The little I used seemed usable enough. Now on my work laptop, a Dell XPS 1330, they use it for a handful of buttons such as play/pause (which I never use) and also eject and volume up/down/mute which I do use. As you guys mentioned, there's no tactile feedback so you're never sure you're hitting the button. Second, it's very easy to hit the one next to it on accident. Third, I sometimes might rest a finger nearby on the hard surface and push the button without meaning or knowing. And fourth, and this is probably specific to this setup, they sometimes seem to get stuck where none of them work and I have to slide across and hit a bunch of them to un-stick it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:33 am 
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lm wrote:
the article wrote:
Ironically, the fact that they make no noise at all


Am I too extreme for SPCR or is SPCR too mainstream for me?


I think it's the latter.
Someone up there must've forgotten about the Quiet / Noisy Monitor Survey.


Monitors make no noise at all... Ha Ha good one :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:01 am 
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rpsgc wrote:
Someone up there must've forgotten about the Quiet / Noisy Monitor Survey.

OK, OK, these things sometimes happen, we cover a lot of ground! Give us a break -- I am the one who started the monitor survey in the first place!

The offending start has been edited:

Quote:
Monitors are not our usual review subjects at SPCR. Ironically, the fact that they make very little noise (with a few exceptions) takes them off our radar; they're generally quiet and we like that, but we don't have too much else to say. That said, our interest in power efficiency (and some corresponding environmental concerns) has prompted us to take a closer look at a couple LCD monitors that bill themselves as "low power". (Editor's Note: CFLs and other electronics inside modern monitors do often exhibit high pitched whining or buzzing sounds, as our Quiet / Noisy Monitor Survey has helped to document for the past year. However, the monitors reviewed here did not exhibit any audible noise.)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:06 am 
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MikeC wrote:
OK, OK, these things sometimes happen, we cover a lot of ground! Give us a break -- I am the one who started the monitor survey in the first place!


We are a very difficult audience :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:06 am 
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I laughed at the picture captions on the second page:

Quote:
She looks good from behind as well...

...but the input selection is kind of basic...

... and her buttons are hard to find.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:47 pm 
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As far as the interface goes, Dell has a 'new' four button interface that is apparently much more intuitive. I found out about it a few months ago when I was looking for a new monitor. I haven't used it, so I can't say much about it, but there was this glowing review about it. I think it looks promising.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:47 pm 
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weird size for the Samsung - 20" was it?
also, not 1080p and the frame is annoying - you aren't suppose to give any attention to the farme.
the power consumption is 24W a lot for just an 1" more then the Lenvo.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:56 pm 
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Lt_Dan wrote:
...the power consumption is 24W a lot for just an 1" more then the Lenvo.

But the Lenovo is obviously exceptional in this regard. We've never seen anything else even close.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:14 pm 
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i didn't mean anything against the Lenvo.

i pointed out that the Samsung is only 1" bigger then the Lenvo but he take 10W more then the lenvo.

and i added that the samsungs' problem, beside the Wattage, is the frame itself!

i don't understand power consumption, but the visuals - which the sasung lacks because of it's resolution mostly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 2:35 pm 
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Great review as always.

As stromgald said, Dell has the G2410 and G2210 in their lineup and those are marketed as green and enviromentaly friendly. If i remember correctly it has the EPEAT gold award to.

I bought the G2410 for myself in late july and i am absolutely in love with it. The 4 button menu control is nothing but brilliant and very intuitive.

The G2410 supports a couple of different "eco"modes that dims the panel and stuff.

The best thing about the G2410 in my opinion is the LED-backlighting, there is not even a hint of backlight bleed. The screen is, according to my ears very quiet, but i would'nt call my ears benchmark material :lol:



It would be great if you could do a followup on this article with some more screens in the 22 - 24" category and include the Dell G2410 in that review. From what i have found on the net there are not many reviews on that screen.


/Alexander


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:10 pm 
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I have a Sceptre X20G-NagaIII and it is consuming 27 watts. The brightness is turned down and it is only calibrated by my eye. Which is to say not much at all. I don't hear any noise to speak of, but perhaps I am just not obsessive enough. Sceptre is a low price brand. I applaud SPCR for reviewing monitors and I hope they do more. Most all of us have a pc that is quiet enough by now. If not we know how to get them quiet if we want to bad enough. I think SPCR needs to branch out and consider power consumption. Do more of these monitor reviews, but like Stenben says, maybe the ones that are just a little bigger.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:17 am 
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rpsgc wrote:
lm wrote:
the article wrote:
Ironically, the fact that they make no noise at all


Am I too extreme for SPCR or is SPCR too mainstream for me?


I think it's the latter.
Someone up there must've forgotten about the Quiet / Noisy Monitor Survey.


Monitors make no noise at all... Ha Ha good one :lol:


Get one that doesn't make noise?

I had a defect LCD once that made an annoying whine and I noticed the back panel was slightly out of it's place. This wasn't the only problem with it but I think issues like that could be because of bad build quality or components. I don't know if warranty will cover a monitor making noise but I'm glad I got a new one of the same model that doesn't make noise at all. Oh, it is a Viewsonic 20,1" VP2030 btw.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:48 am 
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Nice idea to test color reproduction. However the color corrected images have too high contrast. On the Samsung the overall effect is worse than default. Probably not too important as people using these monitors are unlikely to correct color unless it's done automatically by the OS installing a profile.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:14 pm 
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croddie wrote:
Nice idea to test color reproduction. However the color corrected images have too high contrast. On the Samsung the overall effect is worse than default. Probably not too important as people using these monitors are unlikely to correct color unless it's done automatically by the OS installing a profile.


Yes, they do. This is a side effect of having a greater contrast ratio than my camera was capable of reproducing, as well as some judicious exposure changes in photoshop after the fact. As it says clearly in the review, exposure / brightness was not calibrated -- only colour reproduction was controlled for, through white balance.

I was a little disappointed at how my attempt at color testing went; obtaining the correct exposure proved too difficult in the time I had, so I only included a minimum of the actual results I had. As I note above, I did do some correction in photoshop to bring the results in line, but, as you noted, it did affect the contrast.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:29 am 
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MikeC wrote:
Lt_Dan wrote:
...the power consumption is 24W a lot for just an 1" more then the Lenvo.

But the Lenovo is obviously exceptional in this regard. We've never seen anything else even close.
Low power ratings of these reminded me about one thing: PFC.
European requirements for PCF are IIRC for devices drawing 70W or more so if power supplies of these don't have it that could cause wide discrepancies in results unless meter is specifically capable to measuring power with non-sinusoidal out of phase current.



BTW, because of two polarizers every single backlighted LCDs needs to produce many times more light than necessary so instead of tweaking compromise technology it should be time to push for OLED/SED which also solve all response time and viewing angle problems of liquid crystals and backlight limiting contrast.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:59 am 
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Devonavar wrote:
croddie wrote:
Nice idea to test color reproduction. However the color corrected images have too high contrast. On the Samsung the overall effect is worse than default. Probably not too important as people using these monitors are unlikely to correct color unless it's done automatically by the OS installing a profile.
Yes, they do. This is a side effect of having a greater contrast ratio than my camera was capable of reproducing
Did you take them in JPEG?
In consumer cameras that limits dynamic range of image seriously below sensor's capability.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:28 pm 
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EsaT wrote:
Did you take them in JPEG?
In consumer cameras that limits dynamic range of image seriously below sensor's capability.


Yes I did ... the camera I used isn't capable of shooting in RAW. Like I said, the method I used was experimental, and far from perfect. However, the color casts *did* correspond to what I saw with my eye, so I decided that the visual benefit of posting them outweight the flaws in my methodology.

Devon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:47 am 
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EsaT wrote:
BTW, because of two polarizers every single backlighted LCDs needs to produce many times more light than necessary so instead of tweaking compromise technology it should be time to push for OLED/SED which also solve all response time and viewing angle problems of liquid crystals and backlight limiting contrast.


I'd totally forgotten about SED. When I still had my 2x(19" CRT 1280x1024@85Hz) dualhead setup, I thought I'd wait for SED before upgrading. But it seemed that SED will never come, because the company that invented it was spending its time on legal issues instead of actual product development. I guess I'll check the status of SED quickly now, cry at seeing them in square one just like always, and feel happy about my LCD.

Maybe I can make a new "principal decision" that I will not upgrade my LCD to anything else before I can get a SED display. Maybe they come to market finally when my current display is fully served, and then break that decision again when nothing seems to materialize.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:16 pm 
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Good review, thanks. Mike, I saw your comments on the Aluetia blog:

Quote:
Monitors with external power bricks have been around for ages…


We’re looking for a low-power monitor with external power adaptor, as we aim to move to solar DC at home.

Could anyone point me to a site which identifies which monitors have external power adaptors? We can then compare this with the US EPEAT rating…

Cheers :)


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