It is currently Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:32 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Logitech Illuminated Keyboard
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:20 am
Posts: 3141
Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keybo ... 0&cl=us,en

I noticed logitech announcement of their upcomming release in october. Illuminated keyboard looks to have very promising keytype in silent perspective besides its ridicioulesly thin ^^

Quote:
PerfectStrokeâ„¢ key system: Gives you more key travel than typical notebook keyboards. Research shows that a longer distance required for each keystroke (key travel) improves your typing experience. Every stroke is comfortable, fluid, and silent. Tested for up to 10 million keystrokes.


And best of all is that you can also shutdown lights... and they are not blue! ^^. Seems bit pricey though $80 in USD's and around 54€'s.

_________________
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Posts: 780
Location: Croatia
Unfortunately, it's probably going to be unusable for a lot of people, because the images show an oversized Delete key. Whoever thought of that should be fed to killer ants. Or bees.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:20 am
Posts: 3141
Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
I think oversized del key has been standard for most logitech keyboards. I find it very useful myself.

_________________
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 8:32 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Posts: 780
Location: Croatia
Old-school people, like myself, use Ctrl, Shift, Insert and Delete for copy/cut/paste. Not having the Insert key there instantly makes the keyboard completely, and I mean completely unusable, at least for me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 1421
Location: Finland
Matija wrote:
Old-school people, like myself, use Ctrl, Shift, Insert and Delete for copy/cut/paste. Not having the Insert key there instantly makes the keyboard completely, and I mean completely unusable, at least for me.
If it's anything like other logitech's, insert is located above the delete key. Anyway Ctrl+c/x/v is better anyway, takes only 1 hand...

_________________
Antec Solo case /w Seasonic S-12 430W, Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-SH2, X2 4850e /w Scythe Ninja, 2x2Gb DDR2800, WD Raptor 150GB, 500GB WD GP in Antec MX-1, BenQ G2400W, Logitech diNovo Laser, Logitech z-680


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Posts: 780
Location: Croatia
It's easy to spot the "Windows generation" with their awkward X-C-V ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:21 pm
Posts: 56
wow i didnt event know that shift+delete and shift+insert had a use like thank.
But I would still use the ctrl+c/x/v

By the way the keyboard looks great, stylish, sleek and silent (i dont know why) a bit pricey though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:32 am
Posts: 486
Location: Poland
There is also the new diNovo for Notebooks. Looks very similar, with no lights at all. :)

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keybo ... 2&cl=us,en

_________________
Can you keep it down? I'm having trouble hearing the artillery.

Current rig
Old PC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:20 am
Posts: 3141
Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
And its about twice more expensive than illuminated keyboard but roughly half of the price of old DiNovo... Logitech's new keyboards do look good.

_________________
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Posts: 780
Location: Croatia
There's a lot of text editing keyboard shortcuts that "newbies" (please don't take this as derogatory, I just lack a better word) don't know. Most use the Ctrl key and the arrows or editing block.

Some examples:

Ctrl + Insert - copy
Shift + Insert - paste
Shift + Delete - cut
Ctrl + Left/Right - move cursor to next/previous word break
Ctrl + Home/End - begginning/end of text
(the above two can be used with Shift, naturally)
Ctrl + Delete - delete forward to word break
Ctrl + Backspace - delete backward to word break (especially great in browsers, some don't even require focus in the address bar)

The right side of the keyboard is much, much superior for any kind of text editing than the left. All you have on the left is Ctrl+X-C-V and nothing else. Also, raise a hand if you've never pressed the wrong key while doing that, or raise a hand if you have to look at what key you are pressing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:32 am
Posts: 486
Location: Poland
After using the Apple Aluminum Keyboard for a while, I can tell you that getting used to the Insert key being slightly higher is not much of a problem. I'd be worried if Logitech used their other "smart" layout, with special keys put in just two columns—that one can really mess you up. (Speaking as a pro who's cashflow depends a lot on keyboard usability. :))

@thejamppa
Perfect stroke, and longer travel keys, are only good up to a certain typing speed. I'll take the diNovo any day.

_________________
Can you keep it down? I'm having trouble hearing the artillery.

Current rig
Old PC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 191
Matija wrote:
It's easy to spot the "Windows generation" with their awkward X-C-V ;)

Well... there are some of us who switched from ctl-ins to ctl-v (and such-like) when moving from OS/2 to NT. The issue was that a lot of doc processors didn't work that great with just the keyboard - so it was right hand on the mouse/trackpad/whatever and left hand on ctl-C etc.
Yeah, it didn't matter for text editors, but IMHO, the emacs key combinations that do these same things are a closer match to ctl-c than to ctl-ins. ditto X-edit key combinations (3270 terminal M/VS os).
So don't be so sure...

Speaking of illuminated keyboards and key combinations, there was a 3270 that had individual key illumination controllable by the app running on the mainframe. You could easily tell the user "the next key I'm expecting is one of these..." There were versions of X-Edit that could do this (important when you'd typically hit a control key and then the individual key to indicate what you want to do). Pretty cool for when it was...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 191
I forgot to mention - I'm using a saitek keyboard (a gamer's board) for coding - and love the key action. I hate the illumination though - but I don't work in the dark.
AFAICT there are two kinds of keyboard users.
- the heel-of-hand resters (that'd be me). I'm reading more than typing, even when just writing my own code
- the "classic" "hands in the air" (like they taught in typing class) typists
Walk around at work and watch - you'll see these two styles (well, plus hunt 'n peck)

I just have to figure that a keyboard that makes one happy isn't going to be so great for the other.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:14 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 11:58 am
Posts: 294
Shame that there is not a white version, is my P150 to call it...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 9:46 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Posts: 1523
Location: Sweden
Looks good apart from the insert key issue already mentioned. I don't use the insert key much myself, but I need the other keys around it to be in the usual positions. Right now I'm using the original version of the UltraX Flat. This is my second one and when the first one broke it took me quite a while to find another one since they don't sell them anymore. I don't care much for the Logitechs that came after the original UltraX Flat, but this one looks promising.

Don't know if I'd like the glowing though. Do you think it will be possible to dim it down to prevent heavy light pollution in a dark enviroment?

_________________
Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:20 am
Posts: 3141
Location: Missing in Finnish wilderness, howling to moon with wolf brethren and walking with brother bears
According Logitech you can adjust the illumination power of the keyboard, so it would make sense that you can turn off the lights, how ever I could not find mention about turning lights off...

_________________
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 1:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:36 am
Posts: 1083
Location: Reading, UK
It sounds like a "more respectable" version of the G15 (which I have). The G15 has got 3 illumination modes, I would expect this baby to be similar.

These modes are:

1 - Off.
2 - Mild illumination
3 - Strong Illumination

Incidentally the "oversized delete" is primarily a European standard - it's something that freaks me out each and every time I get given a US keyboard to work with.

For me, the oversized delete is perfect :). But that's down to where you're from I guess :).

_________________
D875PBZ, 3.4 GHz Prescott + TR XP-120 w/ 120 mm AF, AccoustiCase C6607 Black, 2x 250 GB S-ATA HD's, 2x 120 mm Evercool Aluminium fans
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:05 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:18 am
Posts: 494
Location: London, UK
shathal wrote:
Incidentally the "oversized delete" is primarily a European standard - it's something that freaks me out each and every time I get given a US keyboard to work with.
I've never seen it on any European keyboard. But the smaller enter key on US keyboards is very annoying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:32 am
Posts: 486
Location: Poland
shathal wrote:
Incidentally the "oversized delete" is primarily a European standard - it's something that freaks me out each and every time I get given a US keyboard to work with.

The layout with just two instead of three columns of additional keys is indeed present on some shrinked keyboards. That is a Thing From Hell. The layout with a big Delete, and Insert directly above it, is purely a Logitech thing (and much more user friendly).

_________________
Can you keep it down? I'm having trouble hearing the artillery.

Current rig
Old PC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:17 am
Posts: 780
Location: Croatia
I think Microsoft was the first with the oversized Delete key.

As for it being user friendly, those who don't know what Insert is for usually don't know what Delete is for. They just use Backspace.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:49 am 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:47 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Birmingham, UK
Having obtained a Logitech Illuminated keyboard, after reading all the rave reviews of it on SPCR, here is my take on it:

Pro:

- Excellent feel of keys. The PerfectStroke really works. It seems to be a happy medium between ultra-light touch laptop keyboards and the piston-shaft desktop keyboards.

- The uniformly black surface works well, and I prefer it to the UltraX with the metal background.

- The built-in wrist pad is nice, soft and warm.

Con:

- The Menu key has been displaced by a silly FN key. To get the Menu, you need to press FN+PrintScreen. Get it?

The brain-damaged rationale for this seems to be the illusion that the users are constantly alternating between viewing the Home page and viewing Help, whereas they might invoke a menu only once in a blue moon. (Logitech seems to have assembled top-notch engineers but idiotic computer scientists. They will be better off firing all their computer scientists and letting the engineers do the job.)*

- The function keys are slim, can't see why, but they are elevated a bit which partially makes up for the short-coming.

- The SetPoint software uses a 4-year old Visual C++ library (VC8), which they can't seem to update, despite Microsoft explicitly telling them to do. But after you take all the trouble to install the software, it basically does nothing. (Another reason to fire all their computer scientists.)*

I am having a hard time trying to decide whether to keep this or to go back to UltraX.

Cheers,
Uday

* I am a computer scientist.

_________________
Case: Antec NSK1380 / PSU: PicoPSU-150-XT + Dell DA-2 / Mobo: ASRock G43Twins-FullHD / CPU: E6750 Core2 Duo @ 2.66GHz / Cooler: Akasa Evo 120 + Scythe Kama PWM / GPU: GeForce 6800GT / RAM: 4GB G.Skill DDR3 @ 1600MHz / Drive: Corsair X64 SSD / Drive: Seagate Momentus 7200.4 2.5" HDD / OS: Win XP Pro x64


Last edited by reddyuday on Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 404
Location: Illinois, USA
I've had the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard (that's a mouthful, I'll just call it the LIK ;) ) for a while now. I got it from ebay for $40 with free shipping, which is quite a deal for what it is.

It's very classy and pretty quiet - possibly about as quiet as a traditional mechanical keyboard can be.

Yes, you can turn the illumination off. The illumination button cycles through off -> 100% -> 50% -> 25% -> off again. I used to have a junky old 17" LCD screen and liked the illumination at 50%. Since I've upgraded to a 23" 1080p LCD, I need it at 100% to compete with the screen's brightness.

My biggest con is that the F-keys light up with their special function (eg. Homepage), rather than their F-number (eg F11).

It's also a little bit too thin, and the feet are kinda small. The whole thing flexes a bit if you type hard, but it isn't overall that bad. The wrist rest has sort of a rubbery finish. I've marred mine a couple times by dropping sharp corners of things onto it, which is a little unsightly. Also, you can't detach the wrist rest.

Other people have complained about certain sequences of keys not registering. I haven't encountered that at all. I suspect it only applies to sloppy typists.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:52 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1857
Location: Northern California.
Looks nice, but as usual the major drawback to any logitech input device is the ridiculous setpoint bloat-ware.
-When they fix that, I will surely reconsider.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 404
Location: Illinois, USA
xan_user wrote:
Looks nice, but as usual the major drawback to any logitech input device is the ridiculous setpoint bloat-ware.
-When they fix that, I will surely reconsider.


Yeah, Setpoint is crap. I never installed it. The keyboard works fine without it, and I would never use whatever fancy features Setpoint enables anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:44 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 230
Location: Sweden
swivelguy2 wrote:
I've had the Logitech Illuminated Keyboard (that's a mouthful, I'll just call it the LIK ;) ) for a while now. I got it from ebay for $40 with free shipping, which is quite a deal for what it is.

It's very classy and pretty quiet - possibly about as quiet as a traditional mechanical keyboard can be.

Yes, you can turn the illumination off. The illumination button cycles through off -> 100% -> 50% -> 25% -> off again. I used to have a junky old 17" LCD screen and liked the illumination at 50%. Since I've upgraded to a 23" 1080p LCD, I need it at 100% to compete with the screen's brightness.

My biggest con is that the F-keys light up with their special function (eg. Homepage), rather than their F-number (eg F11).

It's also a little bit too thin, and the feet are kinda small. The whole thing flexes a bit if you type hard, but it isn't overall that bad. The wrist rest has sort of a rubbery finish. I've marred mine a couple times by dropping sharp corners of things onto it, which is a little unsightly. Also, you can't detach the wrist rest.

Other people have complained about certain sequences of keys not registering. I haven't encountered that at all. I suspect it only applies to sloppy typists.



Some keys are noisy on my LIK, how are yours?

_________________
Antec P182, MSI H55-GD65, i3 530@3.5GHZ (w/Nexus 92mm@850 rpm & Minja), 4GB RAM, Samsung HD502HI (suspension w/rubber cords) Geforce 7300GS (w/Zalman ZM80D-HP) PSU Corsair VX450 (w/Noctua NF-S12-1200), System fan Scythe S-Flex 120mm@~550rpm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2004 9:18 pm
Posts: 404
Location: Illinois, USA
The only key that's particularly noisy on my LIK is the spacebar, just because it's bigger. It makes a lower-pitched Thunk. All the other keys just output a soft rat-a-tat.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:02 pm 
Offline
Friend of SPCR

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 230
Location: Sweden
swivelguy2 wrote:
The only key that's particularly noisy on my LIK is the spacebar, just because it's bigger. It makes a lower-pitched Thunk. All the other keys just output a soft rat-a-tat.


Lucky you. I've found that some of my keys' innards must be slightly off balance, if "E" key for instance is being pressed dead center, there's a click sound that definitely isn't part of the keyboard's typical laptop feel. If the key is pressed off-center it is as silent as others. The Enter key makes a springy noise if pressed off-center. Tab key is somewhat noisy too. Some keys sometimes squeaks but often dont.
The quietest key is right Ctrl key, I don't hear anything from it.

Fortunately, the space bar is as quiet as the small keys!

_________________
Antec P182, MSI H55-GD65, i3 530@3.5GHZ (w/Nexus 92mm@850 rpm & Minja), 4GB RAM, Samsung HD502HI (suspension w/rubber cords) Geforce 7300GS (w/Zalman ZM80D-HP) PSU Corsair VX450 (w/Noctua NF-S12-1200), System fan Scythe S-Flex 120mm@~550rpm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:41 pm 
Offline
Patron of SPCR

Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:47 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Birmingham, UK
reddyuday wrote:
- The Menu key has been displaced by a silly FN key. To get the Menu, you need to press FN+PrintScreen. Get it?

If you depend on the Menu key, like I do, it seems that you have to just write off this piece of keyboard real estate. Logitech confirmed that "even using software", you can't remap the FN key. Even Sharpkeys can't do it because it is handled in the hardware and the key stroke doesn't reach Windows. The only way to get a workable Menu key is then to remap the Left Windows key (because the Right Windows key has been eaten up by the oversized FN key as well). It is going to be fun to retrain my brain to think left to open a menu!

Cheers,
Uday

_________________
Case: Antec NSK1380 / PSU: PicoPSU-150-XT + Dell DA-2 / Mobo: ASRock G43Twins-FullHD / CPU: E6750 Core2 Duo @ 2.66GHz / Cooler: Akasa Evo 120 + Scythe Kama PWM / GPU: GeForce 6800GT / RAM: 4GB G.Skill DDR3 @ 1600MHz / Drive: Corsair X64 SSD / Drive: Seagate Momentus 7200.4 2.5" HDD / OS: Win XP Pro x64


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:53 pm
Posts: 1371
Matija wrote:
It's easy to spot the "Windows generation" with their awkward X-C-V ;)


I wouldn't say it's awkward. I know of ctrl-ins/shift-ins from dos days, but X-C-V is more convenient. For one you can do it with one hand only, and shifting your pinky down to CTRL is less taxing than moving your entire right hand to hit INS. Two is kind of similar, if your right hand is holding the mouse, moving right hand to the keyboard wastes time, X-C-V is once again faster.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:57 pm
Posts: 32
reddyuday wrote:
If you depend on the Menu key, like I do, it seems that you have to just write off this piece of keyboard real estate.


I've had this kb for about 1yr and like it a lot - best KB I've ever owned.

But a sincere question ... can't you remap your KB under Windoze so if you *need* some specific key not present on the KB then you can simply map the function to some other key ?

This is mindlessly simple on Linux/X11. It's really silly if Win doesn't have such a feature.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group