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 Post subject: Can a Zalman Reserator 1 V2 handle a Core i7 and a 5870 GFX?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:42 am 
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Hallo everybody. After having lurked these boards for a while, and after having read the topic entitled "Reserator1 V2 Compatibility" on this forum, I've decided to register and ask a little question which I hope someone can help me with.

I am currently looking at buying a new computer and am keen on keeping it silent. Hence, I've been looking at buying the Zalman Reserator 1 V2 water cooling kit (due to the fanless concept).

My current plans are to build a system using the following components:
    Motherboard: ASUS P6T SE, X58, Socket-1366

    Processor: Intel Coreâ„¢ i7 920 Quad Processor

    Graphics card: PowerColor Radeon HD 5870 1GB LCS GDDR5
As you can see, the graphics card is prefitted with a water block and I was planning to use the new Zalman ZM-WB5 Plus CPU water block (which is compatible with the 1366 socket) on the CPU.

I am not intending to overclock the system or otherwise fiddle with the stock settings of the individual components at this time. The system will be used for gaming (to a moderate extent), but will most probably not run continuously for more than 12 hours at a time.

My question is: Will a single Zalman Reserator 1 V2 be able to handle the cooling of both the Core i7 processor and the Radeon HD 5870 graphics card (i.e. in a single cooling loop using stock settings on both the processor and the graphics card)? (And remember, the aim here is not maximum processor speeds, but blissful silence.)

According to one review I've read (On ukgamer dot com), the Zalman Reserator 1 V2 can handle the Core i7 on its own, but I haven't read any reviews or tests which indicate whether it can handle both a newer CPU and a newer GFX card simultaneously using stock settings. In the review the reviewers touch on the subject, but since they overclock the processor their recommendation not to use the Reserator for both components is somewhat difficult to interpret.

As I said, I am not going to overclock the system for the time being, but I would like it to be silent and stable. Thank you in advance for your help. If more information is required to answer my question, please don't hesitate to ask.

(I don't know if the remaining components are relevant, but these are the rest of the main components I am intending to use in the build:
    Storage: Intel X25-M SSD 80GB 2,5"

    RAM: Corsair Dominator DHX+ DDR3 1600MHz 6GB
When it comes to chassi and PSU I haven't decided yet, since this is dependant on the cooling solution.)

Ps. Originally I had a number of links in this post to the different parts and reviews mentioned, but since I don't have three posts on the forum yet I wasn't allowed to post links. :?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:56 pm 
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I too am looking for the answer to this question.. anyone?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:07 am 
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To cite the article you linked to:
"The one caveat to all this is that the CPU was the only heat source connected to the watercooling loop. If you are thinking of running a high-end video card we would strongly suggest considering another watercooling loop or active cooling."

While the cpu in that article was overclocked, I think that it's a valid point. More important, the Reserator is aluminium and most waterblocks are made of copper. Mixing the two metals can induce galvanic corrosion. You should check what the waterblock on the PowerColor Radeon HD 5870 1GB LCS is made of.

Other than that, I can really recommend the Reserator 1! Ultra silent, good performance and looks cool too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:44 am 
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First of all, thank you for answering Atmosper.

Atmosper wrote:
To cite the article you linked to:
"The one caveat to all this is that the CPU was the only heat source connected to the watercooling loop. If you are thinking of running a high-end video card we would strongly suggest considering another watercooling loop or active cooling."

While the cpu in that article was overclocked, I think that it's a valid point.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to as well. In other words, it seems unlikely that the Reserator 1 V2 can handle both components. On the other hand, in the "Reserator1 V2 Compatibility"-thread (sorry, still can't link) ~El~Jefe~ wrote this:

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
To be honest, you could almost get away with

ONE

v2 reserator. Yes, this is the case.

You really have to look at the necessary temperatures for the cpu and gpu. The gpu can basically take any temp, so that's out of the picture. The cpu should be below 55C on extended load.

The reserator1 can do this. the v2, etc etc all of them have the same cooling. Zalman made a new and very nifty looking universal cpu block. I really like the specs on it. I use block just prior to that block. I sometimes overclock my e8400 to 3.8ghz and my 3870 to like 12% above stock on ram and gpu. This makes the tower warm but the temps are never hot. It could easily handly my new 5770 and a DO stepping 920. A 5870 is within limits of a single zalman reserator. The recommended wattages are WAY undervalued.

Why? Because the engineering team in california told me so. They said that the Xtreme and the reserator II radiator are both not as effective at cooling as the original and its visually updated v2 tower. (the quick connects rock though! I wish I had them)

So I'm still hopeful, but feel as if I don't know enough about this subject. Is there any way to calculate whether the cooling solution is good enough? I mean, it should be possible to approximate how much heat the Reserator 1 V2 can dissipate in normal room temperature (say 22 degrees C) and compare that with what the CPU and GFX card will produce at full load using stock settings. Or am I not considering all aspects of heat dissipation v. heat generation and other factors here? (I've never used water cooling before, so I'm a real noob at this....)

Atmosper wrote:
More important, the Reserator is aluminium and most waterblocks are made of copper. Mixing the two metals can induce galvanic corrosion. You should check what the waterblock on the PowerColor Radeon HD 5870 1GB LCS is made of.

From the information I've found, it looks like the water block on the card is an EK-FC5870 copper based one..... so that's a bit of a bummer I guess.

EDIT: Although, it seems as if Zalman aren't too concerned about this since their own new 1366-socket compatible water block (the ZM-WB5 Plus) also has a pure copper base.

Atmosper wrote:
Other than that, I can really recommend the Reserator 1! Ultra silent, good performance and looks cool too.

Darnit, you tease! Now I want one even more. :x :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:48 am 
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Zalman products arent a good choice for cooling a high end system like this. Its better to buy single components. ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:06 am 
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One really has to look at the size of the heatsink. I mean, stand it up next to you. Check the sucker out.

You'll then try and pick it up, with or without water.

THink about the heatsinks in your case. They weigh about 1/70th the weight.

After all of that, you have to wonder what this thing CANT cool effectively. Nothing beats a massive heatsink, ever.

My only concern is super high temps like 50 degrees C. I would think the water pump might break down at that temp after a while. OH, the water wont be that hot, the surface of the chip might be. never think that the computer read out of temps is the water temp.... that would burn your hand and it certainly doesnt come close to that ever. It can cool a whole lot. the 5870 is a beast though. I think you are pushing the res system to it's limits. However, the more heat you add to a WC system, the more it dissipates. WC loops perform better and better when air starts to severely fail. A good idea would be a thermometer stuck to the Reserator. I wouldnt know what temp it would reach on such a hefty loop. Still, it has to work pretty well, and... the eheim 300 pumps are cheap-ish.


(as I always say, you dont air cool a corvette......)


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 Post subject: Two problems
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:40 am 
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The reasons the size of the reserator is made less effective are two fold.

1. The pump is weak.

2. No active air circulation

I have the reserator/pump going to a seperate 120mm radiator with a fan running slowly over it (I cant hear it outside of 6 inches) I cool gfx card and cpu.

Since you should have a fan in you system to cool various other components, you can make it do double duty. I have two fans in my system running so slowly (with a 3.5 in bay fan controller) that I cannot hear them at all. (putting fans by the hard drives made it so they never got too hot to touch, whereas before the limit was about 3 seconds). The other fan is an exhaust behind CPU waterblock with a radiator.

Research by various overclockers has found that a systems cooling is more efficient without a radiator. Thus the size of the reserator actually works against it, due to the stress on the already weak pump.

I'm a little mish mash, but it comes down to this.

You can use the system but you should put at least 1 extra radiator with slow moving fan into the system, and best to add a stronger pump into the line.

In short you're better off using the money to buy a cheaper passive reservoir.

XSPC Passive 500mm Reservoir

Depending on how much cooling you want 120mm single or 120mm double fan radiator (dont forget shroud).

Innovatek Eheim HPPS Plus 12V Water Pump

My next build will not include a Zalman, If I could pay less for just the reservoir and leave out the sissy pump I would.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:50 pm 
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you can always mod it :D so in effect take out the pump from the reserator and use a 3rd party pump, housed within the case that ran on the 12V psu. I was planning to do this but instead got a zalman xt instead.

Another option is to go for the invotek passive radiators

http://www.highspeedpc.com/Merchant2/me ... ovaKonvect

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Hi, I'd like to link back to a very old thread (Sept 2005) in which the poster (olyar15) attempts to cool an original X2 4800+ and SLI 6800GTs with a Reserator.

The conclusion is that with an external pump to better circulate the water it can do it!

Xbit Labs rate 6800GT at 65w so a pair is in 5870 territory, which they rate as 107w in 3D Mark 06 and 160w in FurMark. The X2 wasn't an especially cool CPU either.
I wouldn't be surprised if it could more-or-less cool the OP system, especially with an external pump. (I should point out I have no experience of water cooling though!)

I also wonder why go for s1366 over s1156 when not over-clocking or running two video cards or in fact generally pushing the performance envelope. I just checked and price wise an i7 860 is about equal with i7 920, but the motherboards are much cheaper.
On Anandtech (perhaps not the very best reviews but generally not too bad) the i7 860 loses to the i7 920 (just) in only 2 tests, ones that stess the system to the max with 8 threads. With less threads the higher default clock speed (2.8 vs 2.66) and higher "turbo" clocks the i7 860 beats the i7 920. I would guess for "feel" it would also be faster due to the majority of PC tasks still only using 1-2 threads.
In power consumption tests the s1156 system idled 30w less than the s1366 and 20w less under load too.
Regards, Seb

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:02 pm 
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There have been tests showing no difference between a Eheim 300 and eheim 600. Doubling the output of the pump on a Reserator does nothing.

Maybe if you put a 1200 in it, something would happen? I think a fan blowing against the tower would do more, but that would be a huge fan.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:25 pm 
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I just recently went from air cooling to the Zalman Reserator 1 V2 (used off eBay), I upgraded the CPU and GPU blocks to Swiftech and upgraded the flow indicator to a Thermaltake with temp sensor. I absolutely love it, I can't even tell when the PC is on anymore (it's silent :D ). I'm running an Intel Q9550 quad core OC'd to 3.44GHz and a Power Color HD4850 w/ factory settings. At idle both cpu and gpu stay under 30c. At full load (running BOINC) the gpu stays under 40c (it used to easily hit 80c with factory air cooling, LMAO) and the cpu stays under 50c (it usually hovers around 45c but does go up a bit once the water temp rises). OBTW it does all this while being perfectly SILENT!!!! LOL, I love this thing. I do plan to add an active radiator with twin 120mm fans to keep everything under 40c while at full load. This is my first water cooling setup and I'm totally hooked now. And to the galvanic corrosion issue, I'm pretty sure the copper and aluminum have to be physically connected via a conductor other than the electrolytic solution (coolant) to cause any noticeable corrosion. I've only had it running for a week now but the water is still crystal clear. Ohh, I'm using Water Wetter and distilled water as my coolant, seems to work great.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:47 pm 
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deltatechx wrote:
I do plan to add an active radiator with twin 120mm fans to keep everything under 40c while at full load.
Why...? Your temps are good, no need to add noise...

Galvanic corrosion won't be noticable after a week, but after half a year it will be, if you don't take precautions. No physical contact between aluminum and copper is needed, the coolant will be the conductor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:10 am 
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spookmineer wrote:
deltatechx wrote:
I do plan to add an active radiator with twin 120mm fans to keep everything under 40c while at full load.
Why...? Your temps are good, no need to add noise...

Galvanic corrosion won't be noticable after a week, but after half a year it will be, if you don't take precautions. No physical contact between aluminum and copper is needed, the coolant will be the conductor.


I'd like to add the second radiator so I can leave BOINC running while I'm at work (10-14 hours a day) and not have to worry about it overheating. I haven't ran BOINC more than an hour at a time, and during each run the water temp steadily went up (albeit slow, but over 10 hours it can add up). Since it'll only be under full load while I'm gone at work noise isn't really an issue to me for the second radiator.

For the corrosion: From what I gathered from the sticky on galvanic corrosion, the aluminum will be the one to corrode and the copper should be fine correct? I have a lot of magnesium ribbon, could I use it as a "sacrificial anode" by putting it in the reserator directly connected to the aluminum?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 10:11 am 
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what other steps can I take to deal with corrosion? How often should I change the coolant?

Thanx


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:43 pm 
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deltatechx wrote:
Galvanic corrosion won't be noticable after a week, but after half a year it will be, if you don't take precautions. No physical contact between aluminum and copper is needed, the coolant will be the conductor.


There's very little evidence for this, despite it being "common knowledge". The odd group *cough* swiftech *cough* has unwisely bolted copper directly onto aluminum and yeah, this corroded. When the metals are physically separated and reliant on electric current through the coolant the process slows considerably. Using an anticorrosive additive and occasionally doing water changes will help.

Playing devils advocate to some extent there in that there's no aluminium in my loop, nor will there be, but it's worth mentioning since aluminium + copper would be convenient for the OP.

An overclocked i7 is capable of throwing out 250W of heat, but a stock one will follow its tdp of 130W fairly closely. So it'll be hot. The pump is a gentle, quiet one, so flow rates will be poor, and again this will encourage it to be hotter. As long as the pump is able to start and get the liquid moving you should be alright though, temperatures are going to be similar to or possibly worse than air cooling, but I think it'll work.

It's worth checking the temperature limits for the zalman. Laing ddcs are rated up to 60 degrees liquid temperature but that's the only figure I know of offhand. Pump and tubing are the ones likely to suffer from the heat.

Good luck, as far as I know you'll be breaking new ground here.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:43 am 
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Can someone explain why, with super heatsinks like the Prolimatech and the new Noctua triple radiator heatsink, anyone would even consider water cooling.

It is expensive is complicated. At the end of the day you need to move just as much air to cool things because it is the air to which the thermal load is ultimately dumped.

Adding a water pump, even a quiet one, just adds needless noise.

The water cooling impairs the portability of the computer. At a minimum it adds weight. The reservator makes it a 2 person effort to more the computer, that is unless you want to unhook it.

That isn't even considering the water corrosion and leaking problem.

And what few comparison benchmarks I have seen, the high end air coolers acquit themselves very well against water coolers.

Oh I forgot, it costs a lot. And probably involves a large investment of time to implement and maintain.

So other than showing off to those few people who might come into your home to view it, why why why?

Oh the video card, yes. Spend $500 cooling a $200 video card.

What am I not getting?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:31 am 
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According to this computer power scale, SPCR's test CPU draws about 152w (stated in the SPCR test bed article to be 160w, so I'll use that) at 100% load when overclocked and overvolted. It's also stated that the temps are from the hottest CPU core, not the sensor labeled 'CPU'.

At about 19dBA the Noctua NH-D14 has a delta of about 44c. That's about 0.275 degrees celcius per watt.

My i5 750 runs at 4300 MHz at 1.4v, giving me 179 watts. It's watercooled, and I don't know how loud it actually is, as the fans and the pump are undervolted. My loop also cools the GPU, a stock 9800 GTX+. Even with the GPU, my hottest core has a delta of 30c, making the c/w rating of my system less than 0.18 as the GPU adds an unknown amount when idle.

When I played games on my old air cooled system I'd have to turn up the fan speed to keep it stable, especially during the summer. Watercooling can keep my system quiet and stable. At the time, air couldn't, and I don't want to risk it.

Also, as far as cost; a complete watercooling setup with a radiator, pump, CPU block, GPU full coverage block, tubing, and fluid shouldn't cost more than 400 Canadian before taxes.

Pump - a DDC is about $70
CPU - Apogee XT is $80 or EK-SUPREME LT Nickel is about $55
Radiator - PA120.3 triple 120mm fan $105
GPU - Swiftech KOMODO-HD5800 $105
Tube - 10' is about $10 - $20
Fluid additive is about $10
Total - $390


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:00 am 
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1398342003 wrote:

At about 19dBA the Noctua NH-D14 has a delta of about 44c. That's about 0.275 degrees celcius per watt.

My i5 750 runs at 4300 MHz at 1.4v, giving me 179 watts. It's watercooled, and I don't know how loud it actually is, as the fans and the pump are undervolted. My loop also cools the GPU, a stock 9800 GTX+. Even with the GPU, my hottest core has a delta of 30c, making the c/w rating of my system less than 0.18 as the GPU adds an unknown amount when idle.


OK. But...

1. MOVING THE HEAT TO AMBIENT AIR

Whether you are direct air cooling or water cooling, don't you have to run the same amount of air through the air based fins or the water based fins to dispose of the thermal load into the ambient air?

So then don't you need the same amount of air current to do so, at least on a sustainable basis?

And doesn't the water pump just add additional noise?

2. BENCHMARKED PERFORMANCE

Here look at the frostytech rankings
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 501&page=5

The highest ranking water cooler is the CoolIT Domino ALC. It is out performed by a fair number of top line aircoolers, and it is loud! It is about 17db louder than the top ranked air cooler.

This is with a 150 watt thermal load.

I don't know how good or bad the CoolIT Domino ALC system is. It does perform well in the Frostytech rankings, but it is loud. And there are direct air systems that out perform it. And these direct air systems seem to be able to handle the heat load generated by any of todays CPUs, even overclocked ones.

3. COST

At NCIX :
the Noctua NH-D14 sells for $89.99 Canadian
the Sunbeam Tuniq Tower is 58.08 Canadian
the Zalman CNPS10X Extreme is $85.99 Canadian

4. AGAIN

Don't you have to move the same amount of air whether you are water cooling or using direct air?

Why would it be quieter moving this air through a water cooling radiator?

5. SAFETY

If your pump breaks what happens to your computer?

If one of the three fans on a Noctua NH-D14 breaks, what happens to your computer?

6. CAPACITY

Xbits has some data on the Noctua and the IFX 14
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... d14_7.html

Looks like their test platform probably generates an even greater thermal load than yours.

Their delta at full load using Linpack 64 is about 46C (70-24) using two 2000rpm fans. Idle was about 10C (34-24). Probably you can get the same performance with less noise using 3 Apache PWM fans.

Three Apache PWM fans loping along at 500rpms under light load, probably generate almost no noise. They will kick in only under high stress conditions, and even then won't be that noisy.

A Prolimatech with 2 Apaches will perform almost as well. As will a stock single fan Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme

Here is the performance data on stock single fan Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme performance at high and low speeds:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 480&page=5

Note that at low speed it handles 150 watts just fine and is quieter than a standard Noctua Tower cooler.

7. PLEASE CLARIFY

"My hottest core has a delta of 30c" What kind of load is that?

What is your delta with Linpack 64? How noisy are your three fans pushing air through your radiator at that thermal load? They can't be quiet.

8. WHAT AM I NOT GETTING? WHAT AM I MISSING?

I don't own a watter cooling setup. I admit I may be missing something. But no one has yet articulated to me what I get in return for the greater complexity, cost, maintenance headaches and likelihood of failure?

And when a water cooling systems fails, it is likely to be a more catastrophic failure than losing one fan of two or three on a high end air cooler. Nothing good can come out of water leaking on a motherboard.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Ces, I think no matter what arguments one holds, watercooling is not for you.

I'll try to reply to your comments and answer your questions:


Personally, I think CPU's can "easily" be aircooled. Pick the CPU with care, considering the TDP. The difference between a 65 and 95 W CPU is quite substantial.
The GPU is the best part to watercool. A current medium to high-end GPU will draw 100+ to close to 300 W. The heatsinks on GPU's are much smaller than heatsinks available for CPU's. If you want a high-end GPU and reasonable quietness, you need watercooling.

It is more expensive than aircooling but it's not complicated. In some cases, the system will become less portable, but in most cases the radiator can be mounted inside the case, or on top of it.

At full RPM, aircoolers might be just as effective as watercooling, but they will be louder than aircooled systems.
A triple rad will have 3x 120 mm fan, the largest aircooler will have 1x 120 mm (perhaps 1x 140 mm, or 2x 120 push-pull, which doesn't make a big difference from 1x 120).

Why? It's more quiet. Example: watercooled 8800 GTX

1. It's about increasing the cooling area. From above, 3x 120 vs 1x 120 mm.
If you pick the right pump it will make a light hum if you're close to it. As with any hardware, you can pick powerfull but noisy components, or you can pick quiet components which will perform just nicely.

2. Fan speed high = loud.
The CoolIT Domino ALC is an entry model.

3. Agreed. You pay for quietness.

4. Again. More surface means less CFM needed (per fan) for the same amount of total airflow.

5. It will switch off when the temp gets too high. Same as with a failing CPU fan (the TRUE and the like are still very popular, most with 1 fan).

8. I haven't seen a thread about leaking in a working system in a long time. If it works, it works. Needs leak testing before building ofcourse.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:25 pm 
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1. Yes, the heat must be transfered to the air, but a radiator has more surface area than a heatsink. Ex. I have two heatsinks, both are 120mm square, made of aluminium with an equal number of fins that are equally thick, however one is 1" thick, the other is 4" thick. The 4" one can dissipate the same amount of heat with less CFM from the fan.

I have a PA120.3, it is optimized for use with low speed fans, and it uses three of them. Since the fans are in parallel each additional fan adds to the total air flowing through the radiator. Heatsinks with multiple fans arrange them in series, so each fan adds to the pressure.

Check out the graphs on this page.

Replace:
'pumps' with 'fans'
'system curve' with 'airflow resistance'
'head' with 'overall pressure'
'flow rate' with 'CFM'

The serial graph is an example of the heatsink, when you add three fans the max pressure triples, but the max CFM doesn't go up, only the point where the curves meet is further along the CFM line.

A radiator behaves differently though. Since each fan has it's own bit of radiator to cool, both the 'fan' and 'airflow resistance' curves stretch to three times their length.

Effectively, this means that three times more air goes through the radiator, and it goes over more hot material.

2. The CoolIT Domino ALC has three problems:
a. Thin 120mm radiator
b. Unknown pump, likely weak
c. Unknown waterblock, likely inefficient.

It's hard to defend this system, as it does seem to be really bad. The radiator is a thin single 120mm model, the pump seems unimpressive, the tubing is thin AND corrugated (which hampers flow), and the waterblock is probably poorly designed. But I can't find any actual inside pics of the waterblock, or any specs on the pump, so I may be wrong.

EDIT: Most watercooling kits are like ThermalTake coolers, flashy but loud and hot.

3. I know that air cooling is less expensive than WCing, I wanted to point out that $500 Cad could WC the CPU and GPU, not just the GPU. It'll do a better job too.

4. See 1. and 7.

5. and 8. This is a pretty big risk, so I'll address it.

A. Pump stops, CPU block heats up, computer starts to thermal throttle, then auto shuts down due to over heating. Modern CPUs (5 years and newer) have max temperatures that will shutdown the computer if they are reached.

B. I once had a fluid leak because I didn't tighten a fitting properly, and I knew that I hadn't, but left it anyways. Using a Feser One additive kept my system from failing for at least a month before I noticed the leak. (it was a small drip) eventually my sound card's copper PCI contacts corroded. There was a small pool of liquid on the back of the card, and it never worked again. (though for some reason the manufacturer didn't put in 5.1 digital, only 5.1 analogue so it needed to be replaced anyways) The rest of the system was fine though.

Feser One coolant can be sprayedon a running computer without causing a short. My leak lasted a while, so there was some kind of corrosion over a long period.

There is a bigger risk than air cooling, but most pumps for WCing are pretty reliable. My pump has been running for 2-3 years without any trouble.

7. I'll answer this first, then 6. My hottest core, core0 has delta of 30c with Prime95 at 100% load across all 4 cores. The other cores are 2c - 4c cooler.

I hadn't even heard of Linpack 64, so I'll have to try it out later.

I don't know what the actual dBa of my system is. As a comparison I have a 640GB version of this drive completely enclosed in a 1/4" aluminum box, sitting on foam, which competes with my main system as the most aggravating part of my computer as far as volume.

6. Okay, first x-bit labs, their delta at full load with 2000RPM fans is 46c, which is hotter than my 30c, and it's unacceptably loud. I never put any of my fans above 1000 RPM. Ever. I can't live with them at that level.

At 800RPM the achieve a 55c delta, with (according to the Antec power thingy) a 255w processor. That gives a c/w rating of 0.216. Watercooling could have the fans spin even more slowly, as 255w in my system would give about 46c.

Also note that the CPU's picture showed a copper colour, indicating lapping was done, and the thermal goop wasn't specified. These are important differences that must be accounted for in any testbed comparison. (Speaking of which, I use arctic silver 5 on my non-lapped CPU. Don't know what Dan uses, though his CPU isn't lapped.)

Lapped CPUs run cooler than non-lapped ones, further invalidating the comparison.

Also note that FrostyTech does not use a reference fan like SPCR. Every cooler is tested as the manufacturer intended, so the results are useful as a comparison of the package. The results are not comparable as far as which is the best -heatsink-. The moment the fans change everything else changes too.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 10:35 pm
Posts: 322
Location: Surrey, B,C
1398342003 wrote:
1. Yes, the heat must be transfered to the air, but a radiator has more surface area than a heatsink. Ex. I have two heatsinks, both are 120mm square, made of aluminium with an equal number of fins that are equally thick, however one is 1" thick, the other is 4" thick. The 4" one can dissipate the same amount of heat with less CFM from the fan.

I have a PA120.3, it is optimized for use with low speed fans, and it uses three of them. Since the fans are in parallel each additional fan adds to the total air flowing through the radiator. Heatsinks with multiple fans arrange them in series, so each fan adds to the pressure.

Check out the graphs on this page.

Replace:
'pumps' with 'fans'
'system curve' with 'airflow resistance'
'head' with 'overall pressure'
'flow rate' with 'CFM'

The serial graph is an example of the heatsink, when you add three fans the max pressure triples, but the max CFM doesn't go up, only the point where the curves meet is further along the CFM line.

A radiator behaves differently though. Since each fan has it's own bit of radiator to cool, both the 'fan' and 'airflow resistance' curves stretch to three times their length.

Effectively, this means that three times more air goes through the radiator, and it goes over more hot material.

2. The CoolIT Domino ALC has three problems:
a. Thin 120mm radiator
b. Unknown pump, likely weak
c. Unknown waterblock, likely inefficient.

It's hard to defend this system, as it does seem to be really bad. The radiator is a thin single 120mm model, the pump seems unimpressive, the tubing is thin AND corrugated (which hampers flow), and the waterblock is probably poorly designed. But I can't find any actual inside pics of the waterblock, or any specs on the pump, so I may be wrong.

EDIT: Most watercooling kits are like ThermalTake coolers, flashy but loud and hot.

3. I know that air cooling is less expensive than WCing, I wanted to point out that $500 Cad could WC the CPU and GPU, not just the GPU. It'll do a better job too.

4. See 1. and 7.

5. and 8. This is a pretty big risk, so I'll address it.

A. Pump stops, CPU block heats up, computer starts to thermal throttle, then auto shuts down due to over heating. Modern CPUs (5 years and newer) have max temperatures that will shutdown the computer if they are reached.

B. I once had a fluid leak because I didn't tighten a fitting properly, and I knew that I hadn't, but left it anyways. Using a Feser One additive kept my system from failing for at least a month before I noticed the leak. (it was a small drip) eventually my sound card's copper PCI contacts corroded. There was a small pool of liquid on the back of the card, and it never worked again. (though for some reason the manufacturer didn't put in 5.1 digital, only 5.1 analogue so it needed to be replaced anyways) The rest of the system was fine though.

Feser One coolant can be sprayedon a running computer without causing a short. My leak lasted a while, so there was some kind of corrosion over a long period.

There is a bigger risk than air cooling, but most pumps for WCing are pretty reliable. My pump has been running for 2-3 years without any trouble.

7. I'll answer this first, then 6. My hottest core, core0 has delta of 30c with Prime95 at 100% load across all 4 cores. The other cores are 2c - 4c cooler.

I hadn't even heard of Linpack 64, so I'll have to try it out later.

I don't know what the actual dBa of my system is. As a comparison I have a 640GB version of this drive completely enclosed in a 1/4" aluminum box, sitting on foam, which competes with my main system as the most aggravating part of my computer as far as volume.

6. Okay, first x-bit labs, their delta at full load with 2000RPM fans is 46c, which is hotter than my 30c, and it's unacceptably loud. I never put any of my fans above 1000 RPM. Ever. I can't live with them at that level.

At 800RPM the achieve a 55c delta, with (according to the Antec power thingy) a 255w processor. That gives a c/w rating of 0.216. Watercooling could have the fans spin even more slowly, as 255w in my system would give about 46c.

Also note that the CPU's picture showed a copper colour, indicating lapping was done, and the thermal goop wasn't specified. These are important differences that must be accounted for in any testbed comparison. (Speaking of which, I use arctic silver 5 on my non-lapped CPU. Don't know what Mike uses, though his CPU isn't lapped.)

Lapped CPUs run cooler than non-lapped ones, further invalidating the comparison.

Also note that FrostyTech does not use a reference fan like SPCR. Every cooler is tested as the manufacturer intended, so the results are useful as a comparison of the package. The results are not comparable as far as which is the best -heatsink-. The moment the fans change everything else changes too.


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