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 Post subject: Your opinion on US gun laws under Obama.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 2:38 pm 
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So have you seen you seen the federal government impose new laws or limits on handguns since Obama? All I have seen is states loosening restrictions.

It just seems like a waste of perfectly good hysteria, no?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 3:39 pm 
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I have not heard anything on the subject, what is the actual plan, is it to reduce the number of "legally" owned guns in circulation, or is it to reduce the average lethality of those guns.?

I know this is soon going to turn into the classic argument of "guns are good" vs "guns are bad", so before it does I would like to know what the government is actually trying to change, and how.


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 Post subject: Re: Your opinion on US gun laws under Obama.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:10 pm 
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aristide1 wrote:
So have you seen you seen the federal government impose new laws or limits on handguns since Obama? All I have seen is states loosening restrictions.

It just seems like a waste of perfectly good hysteria, no?


he signed a ban on recycling brass from ammo for public sale, but that was repealed shorty after.

he openly said he supports chicagos gun ban

but hasnt tried anything


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:26 pm 
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It's all fear mongering, to stir up folks politically, and to sell more weapons and ammo.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:37 pm 
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Just so long as they dont try and take away my donkey cart, im cool.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:54 am 
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Quote:
It's all fear mongering, to stir up folks politically, and to sell more weapons and ammo.


So Obama's government wants to reduce the number of guns in circulation, and their opponents are using this and scaremongering tactics to actually sell more.?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:07 am 
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We finally have a black man as president and the racist party (teabaggers 2.0/born again southern GOP) feel so threatened they are now packing weapons on their hips when dropping the kids off at school and getting frapachinos at starbucks.

Its still harder to get an account at a dvd rental shop in some sates than it is to buy a gun that's designed only for hunting humans.:(

A 'right to bear arms' meant to pick up muskets in defense of oppression over the unrepresented, instead of the right for racist gun nuts to be flashing their 9mm penis extension in church and schools as a counter to any hope for continued change.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:10 am 
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This is a great business opportunity. I'm going to start a home siding business and offer the option of wrapping the house in Kevlar first.

Fear - One of the few US equal opportunity employers.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Quote:
This is a great business opportunity. I'm going to start a home siding business and offer the option of wrapping the house in Kevlar first.

Fear - One of the few US equal opportunity employers.


Thanks Aris, but I am really not getting the seriousness of the message, just a great deal of sarcasm and a little amusement.

Please give me something to go on, send one or many links to news story's, information on the subject, or simply have a good old fashioned rant, I still know barely more than I did in your first post, let alone the real implications and human cost that could be involved.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:36 pm 
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I can see why, since you're not in the US. See we had this mass hysteria just before Obama was elected, even more so just after. Guns sales went through the roof and ammo sales even worse.

I'm just questioning the ability of these great visionaries, who saw the future as, "Here's Obama; please hand over your guns immediately." And as they knocked on each of our doors several platoons of soldiers made sure you handed over all your weapons.

So to all the Chicken Littles out there, where's the beef? If anything the exact opposite has been occuring.

One wonders how long before, "Ready, fire, aim." becomes the national norm? I may just open a gas station / convenience store than sells booze and ammo. What's the price on bullet proof glass these days?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:42 am 
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aristide1 wrote:
See we had this mass hysteria just before Obama was elected, even more so just after. Guns sales went through the roof and ammo sales even worse.


Why? I can't see the point. What the reasons? Do they believe they live in Iraq? Do they believe they aren't protected by policemen? Is it just a penis envy, just like Freud said?

Selling guns should be forbidden, by the way, but I can understand (or said better, I can't understand but it's my fault) that it is radicated into US culture and no firearm-lobby could let Obama do such thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:07 am 
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flapane wrote:

Why?


because the holy trinity of libmaugh/hannity/beck told them too.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:34 am 
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flapane wrote:

Why? I can't see the point. What the reasons? Do they believe they live in Iraq? Do they believe they aren't protected by policemen? Is it just a penis envy, just like Freud said?

Selling guns should be forbidden, by the way, but I can understand (or said better, I can't understand but it's my fault) that it is radicated into US culture and no firearm-lobby could let Obama do such thing.


1. Guns are a second amendment right in the US. So your personal opinion doesnt really matter on that, its a right we have and some us enjoy.

2. the average response time of the police to a call is 20 minutes in most areas, longer in rural areas. how safe does that make you feel when someone breaks into your house? 20 minutes is a long time..

3. there was a change in policy banning the FED from selling spent brass to gun manufacturers to be recycled into new ammo. it caused an ammo shortage. the ban was lifted(the DOD also didnt enjoy the lost revenue) and things are finally starting to sort itself out.

[quote=xan_user]We finally have a black man as president and the racist party (teabaggers 2.0/born again southern GOP) feel so threatened they are now packing weapons on their hips when dropping the kids off at school and getting frapachinos at starbucks.

Its still harder to get an account at a dvd rental shop in some sates than it is to buy a gun that's designed only for hunting humans.

A 'right to bear arms' meant to pick up muskets in defense of oppression over the unrepresented, instead of the right for racist gun nuts to be flashing their 9mm penis extension in church and schools as a counter to any hope for continued change.
[/quote]

are you effin serious?

its not waste deep in bullshit in here :roll:


do you get background checks and then have to wait a week to rent a DVD?

I didnt think so :roll:

you provide zero facts, some incorrect info, and lots of name calling. I didnt realize that the 2nd amendment specifically mentioned muskets :roll:

Quote:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


the point is that they shouldnt and couldnt, so that we can be free to defend ourselves from everyone, including our own government if need be.

just because you dont value your rights, doesnt mean you should try and remove that right from everyone else.

I try not to pigeon hole, but you already allueded to the fact that apparantly I am a right wing nutjob racist for owning a firearm, so its obvious you are a rabid left wing obama nutswinger that would give EVERYTHING away just to appease the presidential agenda

and for the record, before you toss out more wild baseless accusations.

I do not listen to, like, or respect those far right way crazies like rush/beck/hannity. I will occasionally catch some rush, for no other reason to see what retarded crap hes peddling this week


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:49 am 
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Zargon wrote:

are you effin serious?




abso-effin-loutley! dead serious. the right is looking to start a second civil war cause we elected a dark president.

you too can buy a gun for hunting people in under 60 seconds, no ID needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjfzG4mpyU


Last edited by xan_user on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:49 am 
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Zargon wrote:
1. Guns are a second amendment right in the US. So your personal opinion doesnt really matter on that, its a right we have and some us enjoy.

2. the average response time of the police to a call is 20 minutes in most areas, longer in rural areas. how safe does that make you feel when someone breaks into your house? 20 minutes is a long time..


1. The "but I can understand[...] culture" implied this.

2. Who can tell me if you wouldn't use a gun if you go nut? Maybe against me, poor pedestrian walking next to your house?
20min or 5min doesn't matter, meanwhile you'll call the police the thief already will do what he has to do, so that's only an excuse to me.
If you want to defend your propetry alone, then what about closing every police dept? They would be useless, at that point.
Violence calls violence, sorry, handling a gun won't make me feel safer, I'd better install window fences (to close when you are sleeping or whwnever you want),a heavy access door (armour plated should be the correct word), and some infra-red cells and acoustic signal (working when there's noone in the house, and they are connected to the local police station), and that's what I and most folks did.:oops:

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Last edited by flapane on Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:13 am, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:56 am 
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flapane wrote:
1. The "but I can understand[...] culture" implied this.-

2. Who can tell me if you wouldn't use a gun if you go nut? Maybe against me, poor pedestrian walking next to your house?
20min or 5min doesn't matter, meanwhile you'll call the police the thief already will do what he has to do, so that's only an excuse to me.
Violence calls violence.


1 - yes I get that

2 - you can't. you also cant tell if I am going to run you over with my car if I get mad. or a hammer. or an axe. or a shovel.

20 min or 5 min doesnt matter, damn straight, its all too long. I would rather not sit there and be at mercy of some criminal who came into my house to hurt me with zero protection beyond my morals. if you enjoy the risk of being a sitting duck. thats great. but please dont force that on me.

for the record. the introduction of concealed carry in a state in the us, has been shown, to lower the overall crimerate. the legal guns arent the ones hurting people or causing the crime. [/b]


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:05 am 
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You can run me over with a car, of course... but at least you won't shoot me without a gun... that should increase my % of surviving in case you run over of petrol and can't use the car :wink:

No, I don't enjoy the risk, I simply protected my house, who told you can't do the same?
Quote:
I'd better install window fences (to close when you are sleeping or whenever you want),a heavy access door (armour plated should be the correct word), and some infra-red cells and acoustic signal (working when there's noone in the house, and they are connected to the local police station via 3G), and that's what I and most folks did.:oops:


I heard about that more gun less crime theory but... don't get me wrong... I'd prefer avoiding a judgement on it :cry:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:38 am 
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xan_user wrote:
Zargon wrote:

are you effin serious?




abso-effin-loutley! dead serious. the right is looking to start a second civil war cause we elected a dark president.

you too can buy a gun for hunting people in under 60 seconds, no ID needed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASjfzG4mpyU


cant see youtube at work

hwo bout you quit spouting racist non-sense though?

I'm sure some are looking for a civil war again :roll:

but trumpeting what the 1% wants and acting like its the majority is silly.

if you truly believe this, then well, I'm done, because you can't have a logical converstiaon withsome on a different plane of what they think is reality.

I have zero issues the obamas skin color, and lots of issues with this policies and history, he was a utterly worthles pile of crap as a state senator in my state.

flapane: where is the logic in that? You only care if I kill with a gun, the other ways are fine? That comes across as a somewhat ignorant viewpoint.

I have heavier doors, and reinforced jams. with stainless hardware tied into the house framing.

but I cant do anything to the windows without spending insane amounts of money redoing the exterior of my house, and my wife isnt going to let me put that crap inside because its an eyesore.

a firearm is much more cost effective.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:59 am 
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I leave my doors unlocked, as do most of my neighbors. its just stuff.

I only arm myself for protection from bears,pigs and snakes.

Somebody has to oppose your so called "1%" with a similar fervor -tho faux news ratings proves its percentage is so much higher than that.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:16 am 
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Wow, its even easier to buy guns in the US than I thought, and semi-auto's with high penetration, and big magazines.

Zargon, please answer me 2 questions without deviation.

1, What is the murder rate in the US, compared to the UK.?

2, What would be the murder rates for both if you remove murder by gun.?

Xan, I love the pics, very funny.


Andy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:40 am 
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Zargon wrote:
flapane: where is the logic in that? You only care if I kill with a gun, the other ways are fine? That comes across as a somewhat ignorant viewpoint.
but I cant do anything to the windows without spending insane amounts of money redoing the exterior of my house, and my wife isnt going to let me put that crap inside because its an eyesore.

a firearm is much more cost effective.
.


A little bit of hilarity (guess it didn't hit the spot) that wanted to underline a serious matter: FIRST let's ban guns, THEN if you go nut and want to kill me while I'm passing next to your house or maybe you want to kill even more people in a shopping mall, you will hardly find a gun simply because you DON'T own one unless you're an outlaw. You could try with an axe, but I doubt normal people keep an axe in their homes, or you could try with a car, but it will be somewhat harder than using a gun.

It's a pity you can't fix the window thing, but anyway I was speaking in general. You can't but maybe other people can, and I guess a part of them will still feel unsafe, in order to have an excuse to have a gun.
What about you? Would you toss it if the windows would be safe? At that point I wouldn't see any point in keeping it, unless some political wing instills a mass hysteria and sense of fear in the same way a famous right wing party does here against black and rom people and encourages people to defense themselves (and even to do night patrols to hit them).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:24 pm 
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flapane wrote:
Zargon wrote:
flapane: where is the logic in that? You only care if I kill with a gun, the other ways are fine? That comes across as a somewhat ignorant viewpoint.
but I cant do anything to the windows without spending insane amounts of money redoing the exterior of my house, and my wife isnt going to let me put that crap inside because its an eyesore.

a firearm is much more cost effective.
.


A little bit of hilarity (guess it didn't hit the spot) that wanted to underline a serious matter: FIRST let's ban guns, THEN if you go nut and want to kill me while I'm passing next to your house or maybe you want to kill even more people in a shopping mall, you will hardly find a gun simply because you DON'T own one unless you're an outlaw. You could try with an axe, but I doubt normal people keep an axe in their homes, or you could try with a car, but it will be somewhat harder than using a gun..


I am a shade tree mechanic and landscaper.

THere are about 400 things in my garage that I could kill you with. A gun is not an inherently evil object man. Its how it used.

yes, if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. and thats exactly who you want to be armed when no one else is?

you cant really just compare murder rates, seeing as how the US and UK are way different nations anyways. the US is seemingly far more urbanized(which trends to higher crime rates). In fact, two of the more violent(and occasionally most violent cities), chicago and DC, have banned firearms in many ways and have higher crime rates than the surrounding areas.

I would never get rid of my handgun, unless I sold it to buy a different one.

But I go to the range once a month or so to shoot and enjoy it.


xan: you pics are hilarious and all, but lets not pretend that as many pictures dont exist of GWB taunting things he did either. and fox news ratings no way correlate to how many people belive the shit on there.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Zargon wrote:
xan: you pics are hilarious and all, but lets not pretend that as many pictures dont exist of GWB taunting things he did either. and fox news ratings no way correlate to how many people belive the shit on there.


GWB deserves to be tried for treason, and promptly hung, for lies to not only US but the whole world. his treachery is responsible for 100,000 civilian deaths alone.

What we need to do as a society look at the root cause of why people who face so much disparity and utter hopelessness that they feel the only recourse is using violence (Gun, airplanes, IED's ect.) to commit murder and genocide, and stop it there. rather than listen to the faux party brainwashing US into waging war on only the effect. Encouraging the new fad parading around public places with weapons on their hips, weapons our fore fathers would never have envisioned as "arms" when they were really talking about muskets and bayonets is like putting the cart in front of the horse.
If our founding leaders wanted a country where corporations never have as much, or more power than people do, and where church and state are separate, they certainly did not envision people walking around with a 9mm and several clips of hollow points, let alone assault rifles that could kill everyone in congress in under 2 minutes.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:34 pm 
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xan_user wrote:
and where church and state are separate, they certainly did not envision people walking around with a 9mm and several clips of hollow points, let alone assault rifles that could kill everyone in congress in under 2 minutes.


they had privately owned cannons and warships. as if muskets and bayonets were not deadly anyways.

sure, whatever :roll:

they were packing the same heat as the brittish army had, and thats what they are talking about. the power to fight your government on their level. I am 100% sure they wanted us to have any and everything us law abiding citizens could have, so that it would be harded for our monolithic government to enslave us without a fight.

As for separation of the church and state.

we have it. no one makes you go to church, checks up on, and tosses you in jail if you get caught at temple instead of the almighty church of the united states.

at the time, there was this thing called the church of england. in england, you damn sure went to that goddamn church and werent friggin catholic.

it has nothing to do with keeping the word god off our money.

if our forefathers were such giant scaredly cats like you say, we would have a nice accent and still pause for tea IMHO.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Zargon wrote:
they had privately owned cannons and warships. as if muskets and bayonets were not deadly anyways.
So our fore fathers wanted me to be able to toole arround NY harbor in my private PT boat with loaded rocket launchers? and mount a 50 cal on my pick up?

Zargon wrote:
As for separation of the church and state.
When exactly is the atheist's federal holiday again? And how does my group get tax exempt status like the child fondling priests?
Zargon wrote:
if our forefathers were such giant scaredly cats like you say, we would have a nice accent and still pause for tea IMHO.

BwaHaHa! Those original brave cats would have drawn and quartered GWB and his whole treasonous mob for lees than half of what he did to US.

For someone so willing to write of the gun toting racist teabagger faux party "1%", you sure do have a problem ignoring the other 1% that opposes them.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:09 pm 
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xan_user wrote:
For someone so willing to write of the gun toting racist teabagger faux party "1%", you sure do have a problem ignoring the other 1% that opposes them.


well aren't you making HUGE leaps on my beliefs and who I am talking for based purely on my support of private firearm ownership. :roll:



yes I do beleive the forefathers wanted us to be armed to the teeth if we saw fit, they sure did.

nice attempt at shitty humor and wanna be scare tactics though.

I own a firearm, and have never killed anyone. about 100 million people in the US can say the same sing. why would me having a 50 cal make me a mass murdered?

and who said we should legislate freedoms away on what ifs?

I think the patriot act is stupid. but you little best friend obama just extended all the juiciset infringements on personal freedoms, so where is your argument now? Bush may have enacted them, but he put an expiration on it that your little god just extended, so how much better does that make him?? :roll:


feel free to give up any right you want dude, but please stop trying to take them from others who appreciate and use them responsibly.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:28 pm 
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Zargon wrote:
but you little best friend obama


"well aren't you making HUGE leaps on my beliefs"

Before you make any even bigger leaps...
I've owned and shot guns since I was six. My grandfather was a state police and MP gun safety instructor and a well know antique collector, in fact he donated a set of dueling pistols that one of our main fore fathers used to own, to the Smithsonian.
My grandmother was a multiple time state pistol champ and we hunted deer together until she was 89 yo. (she bagged 6 point that fall)
So gun control has been an important part of my life for a long time.

Its the rights the GOP has been stealing from US for the last 30 years, to build their corpacracy that we should be most worried about.

Strong gun control and meaningful corporate regulations , two things im proud to say, my used to belong to the GOP, and used to belong to the NRA , sharp shooting grandparents now agree on.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:00 am
Posts: 77
Location: Urbana, IL
fair enough.

Let me lay mine out there for you then.

The corporate rule of america is destroying the country, I agree. Mostly enabled by the GOP catering to business lobyists. But the democrats haveng done much to stop them either. In fact, congress has been pretty worthless as of late anyways. I wish they would quit the cycle of letting utilities monopolize over the years and they break up again......j

I see you tossing around teabaggers alot, and I think that insult is just stupid. The left turned into a huge insult talking point, and yes, alot of so called tea party people are morons, well so is most of society as a whole. But its so obvious at this point that a smaller smarter government is what we need. look at how the current government is growing spending, its insane and completely unsustainable.

we shouldnt be over seas. probably never should have been. beyond that its costing us a damn fortune we also cannot afford.


we have more than enough friggin gun control.

the guns being used in crimes are 99% of the time acquired illegally. its easier for criminals to get a gun than law abiding citizens. getting rid of guns, doesnt stop crime either. england still has murders, however the amount of stabbings went up. we also shouldnt be taking ques from a country with cameras watching its citizens every move


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:00 am
Posts: 77
Location: Urbana, IL
andyb wrote:
Wow, its even easier to buy guns in the US than I thought, and semi-auto's with high penetration, and big magazines.

Zargon, please answer me 2 questions without deviation.

1, What is the murder rate in the US, compared to the UK.?

2, What would be the murder rates for both if you remove murder by gun.?

Xan, I love the pics, very funny.


Andy


pretty hard to compare those, as the populations differ so much that its not that great of a comparison.

here is an atricle that provides some good numbers while pointing out the holes in the stats and logic in comapring the different circumstances etc

http://sob.apotheon.org/?p=1323



also this:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/city-vs- ... e-per.html

you will notice WDC has the highest murderrate in the US, which has the stirctest gun laws in the nation. You cannot even keep firearms loaded at home on your own property in your own house.


it also appears that overall violent crime rate in the UK is worse than the US
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... urope.html


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1936
Location: Northern California.
comparing local us gun laws is useless untill they are all the same from coast to coast for at least ten years.

Zargon wrote:
we have more than enough friggin guns
fixed.



please tell us how you can keep corporate greed in check and reduce government.

according to every person of color i know the teabagers are veiled in racism, so im joining my friends in that belief till tuna lick the quitter proves my friends wrong.

As for wearing guns to school and the mall i'll stick with my family's gun experts opinions and say its completely stupid and extremely dangerous.


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