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 Post subject: Green gaming computer suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:54 am 
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Location: Sweden/Stockholm
Hi,

What are your suggestion for a green gaming computer with enough power to run most games maxed at 1920 x 1200? (not Crysiz though).

I am not looking for a monstah idle gaming computer that warm my appartment at 350 watt idle.

I want power in idle to be around 60 watt (desktop). In full use during gaming, power use could be 1000 watt+, no problemos.

Danke

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:09 am 
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To my understanding, most CURRENT graphics cards do not reduce power usage to very low levels at idle. If you wait for the 5850 to come out, you can expect a fantastic graphics card with idle power consumption ~ 30 watts.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:04 am 
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There were talks at some point about nVidia's Hybrid Technology (or some name like that) that would let the mobo's video controler do the job for basic video and only use the GPU during gaming. I haven't heard about it much though... I'm not even sure it works :p

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:09 am 
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Hybrid technology is sadly not used anymore, and it never took off :(

IIRC in the MacBookPro with 8400 and 9600 gfx chip you can switch between the cards thanks to hybrid technology, but I would like a desktop solution for hi-end cards instead.

30 w iddle sounds great, now all I need is a 30-35w computer, what kind of CPU would be ideal for a gaming computer in that watt range?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:46 am 
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Location: Canada
erkan wrote:
Hybrid technology is sadly not used anymore, and it never took off :(

IIRC in the MacBookPro with 8400 and 9600 gfx chip you can switch between the cards thanks to hybrid technology, but I would like a desktop solution for hi-end cards instead.

30 w iddle sounds great, now all I need is a 30-35w computer, what kind of CPU would be ideal for a gaming computer in that watt range?


See my computer the link is in the signature is a quad core with a idle less than 35W.
There will be some quad core from AMD 45W TDP but maybe for gaming a dual core will be better if the game is using single tread.
Anyway the new 45nm CPU are quite low at idle the Q8400S I use is only 8W idle at stock and 4W idle if underclocked at 2Ghz and undervolted at 0.925V.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:35 am 
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I dont want to underclock. But I guess a dual core would be great.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:37 am 
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Location: Tulsa, OK, USA
Lynnfield i5-750 undervolted SPCR system 48W
-minus nVidia 9400 GT card 11W
=equals 37W idle

Lynnfield i7-870 undervolted SPCR system 53W
-minus nVidia 9400 GT card 11W
=equals 42W idle

As for the video card, according to this article, the Radeon HD4670, Radeon HD4770, Geforce 9600 GT eco, or Geforce 9800 GT eco would be good choices for low idle power draw.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:05 am 
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erkan wrote:
I dont want to underclock. But I guess a dual core would be great.


A quad core at 2Ghz is almost as fast as a dual core at 4Ghz if your application will be able to use all cores.
I'm interested in energy efficiency and at 2Ghz and 0.925V (idle 4.5W ; load 23.59W) is more efficient than at at stock 2.66Ghz and undervolted 1.106 the minimum stable voltage at stock (idle 6.69 ; load 45.84W).
So for a 25% decrease in performance you get a reduced power usage of 33% at idle and 49% at load so is more energy efficient.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:37 am 
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How come your quad core is so energy efficient, my system q6600 idle at 85 watt on desktop, and thats an underclocked system with a 17w idle gfx board and one harddrive (incl 80plus PSU and a Micro-ATX Asus mobo + 4 sticks of 1 GB memory).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:11 pm 
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erkan wrote:
How come your quad core is so energy efficient, my system q6600 idle at 85 watt on desktop, and thats an underclocked system with a 17w idle gfx board and one harddrive (incl 80plus PSU and a Micro-ATX Asus mobo + 4 sticks of 1 GB memory).


his cpu is not only 45nm (yours is 65nm) but it's a specially-selected extra-efficient 45nm (the -s postfix on the q8400s). his ssd idles much lower than any hdd, the newer sticks of ram are most likely more efficient too and he doesn't have the 17w gfx card. oh and the chipset is most likely more efficient too :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:09 pm 
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Location: Tulsa, OK, USA
Intel® G31 Express Chipset
Max Idle Power 7.4W (worst case)
TDP 15.5W

Only Intel Chipset I found more efficient..

Intel® Q43 Chipset (Tech docs)
Max Idle Power 5W
TDP 13W

Its on this Intel DQ43AP motherboard. I have no clue if the bios would let you underclock or adjust the multiplier at all.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:44 am 
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I don't think the CPU is the issue though. I wouldn't use anything with a TDP over 65W with your goal though.

The issue is that gaming graphics cards consume a lot of power in idle or load.
Your best bet, as someone else has mentioned, is probably something like a 9600gt (Green edition), but it lacks the grunt. If you want to wait, then wait for a 5850, but they'll be pricey.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:01 am 
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811144011

problem solved... haha.

I agree with waiting on the new HD58xx line of cards, since you should be on idle most of the time and that's where most of your savings should come from.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:34 am 
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The one place that'll kill you is the Video Card. For the performance level's you're talking, you wont get below 30-50 watts Idle on the card alone. That means you need a Mobo with CPU/Chipset and all other internals that uses less then 5 Watts - the only thing I can suggest is an Arm based setup but then you can't play Window Only Games since Windows Doesn't run on ARM CPU's. In other words, it aint going to happen.

Now if you want reasonable performance and are willing to trade off, then a setup like mine might work for you. Based on my APC, total system draw, even when folding with the computer, monitor and router all plugged into the Battery protected outlets was 150 watts. That's for everything. Not bad. Of course the limit is my Video Card since I'm not a gamer. I'm using a 7300GT with 256M onboard and fanless. Good Enough for some light games. This is a 30 watt max GPU.

Of course it's not good enough anymore so I'm moving to the Radeon 5670 that's just hit the market. It's rated at 65 watts but I'm figuring 75 to be on the safe side.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:18 pm 
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Actually, original question was slightly dumb by me.

I am currently running Radeon 4630 gfx board, it is a very energy efficient card in idle, BUT it is capable of running most games in 1920x1200 if I remove antialias.

So this card is idling consuming around 15watt. I have a fanless cooler on it but it never gets warm in Windoze.

Lets play:

-Energy efficient AMD CPU 45 watt dual core, 4650e or what they are called.
-Energy efficient AMD mobo, 740G or what they are called
-2.5" HD (I am not sure SSD idles less than a 3.5" HD yet, it is not the same as CF-card for example), 2 watt.
-A couple of sticks of mem.

Such a system have been running under 30 watt here with Mini-ITX PSU.

Lets say replace Mini-ITX PSU with regular 80+ PSU, +5 watt, so that is still 35 watt for the full system without GFX-card.

Add GFX-card = 45-50 watt idle. Ok, I would have prefered 30 watt, but not that bad really.

It would be sweet to find a gfx board capable of running maxed out at 1920x1200 with AA too which idles at less than 10 watt though.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:57 pm 
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erkan:

Check out the ratings of the new 5670 Radeon. 14 watts at idle with a max draw of 61 watts. It'll run it Crysis at lower settings unless you're like me and still running at 1280x1024, where the card has enough power to run as well as the big boys.

I'm planning on getting this card over the weekend and once I've got it, I'll be able to tell you how much it adds to the power budget according to my UPS that tells me I'm using less then 90 watts right now.

System specs
C2D 65watt, 8GB Memory, 7300GT ?Watts, Seagate 7200.10 320GB/7200.11 500GB drives and Samsung SSH223C - Lightscribe Burner - Monitor is CMV 17Inch at 25 watts and Linksys WRT54G router with Wifi set at 802.11b speeds ?watts.

Performance wise, if you're planning on building a new system, I seriously suggest you look at decent C2D from Intel. I'm running a first Gen and the bottom of the chips (e6300) yet according to ArsTech where they benched a whole bunch of CPU's, mine fell right in the middle of the performance curve with the Quads being at the top. Very informative article on actual performance.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:45 am 
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Yeah, please keep us informed, thats a very interesting card. I am definitely interested in it.

You have an impressive system considering you add montor and router to the mix. The router consumes around 10watt IIRC (have the same).

There are some ECO screens 22-23" TFT which are just under 30 watt, 27w, might be an option?

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 Post subject: Very interesting
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:02 am 
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Location: Helsinki
I am also interested in this powerful enough but low idle consumption PCs.
I have build already 2 and counting.

Yes, the screen is very important. I can recommend the Eizo models.
A better option can be de LED monitors that are coming but better to check the reviews before.

I got a 785G chipset + AMD Athlon II 605e + Radeon HD 4550
A HDD of 2.5 inches 7200 rpms for laptops.
A 120W pico power supply.

This system consumes 43 watts meassured on the plug (includes inefficiencies from the power supply).

The 22 inch Eizo monitor consumes around 25W-27W.

Power supply efficiency is also important. At lower watts the efficiency drops dramatically so it is difficult to get low idle consumptions at idle for 24h on computers.

For games it is more important to have a good graphic card that a powerful processor. Only on top games a Quad core in needed. But in the next years a Quad core will be a must.

If you find something better to get lower idle total desktop system consumptions, please post.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Very interesting topic, thanks for everybody who are posting wattage info for new components. I've heard about a tested Radeon 5000-series card with 8,1W idle, but i'm sorry I can't remember which one. I suppose it was one from Powercolor models anyway.

PSU's energy efficiency is essential with both low and high wattages. 1000W with 80% PSU = 200W for the birds. That makes a whole kW/game (5h)!! If the PC idles the rest of the day at 70W (19h) and energy efficiency is only 60% at that level, that's another half of a kW for birds. Well, maybe birds save their energy since they don't need to fly far to south at winter time any more.

Let's remember one thing thou: For houses with electrical heating it's ALL THE SAME if the heat comes out of your box or out of another electrical source. Keep it warm! (-4C outside my windows now, -30C a month back). I'm heating with wood.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:44 am 
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I dont believe you, post proof :o

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:50 am 
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maalitehdas wrote:
1000W with 80% PSU = 200W for the birds. That makes a whole kW/game (5h)!! If the PC idles the rest of the day at 70W (19h) and energy efficiency is only 60% at that level, that's another half of a kW for birds. Well, maybe birds save their energy since they don't need to fly far to south at winter time any more.


Your terminology needs to be corrected:

While power is measured in W (or kW etc for convenience), is energy measured in (k)Wh, that is (kilo)Watt-hours. It's the product of power and time.

So 200W * 5h = 1kWh

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:19 pm 
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The best performance per watt card in the moment ist the powercolor HD 5750 Go! Green!

Proof -> techPowerUp! Review: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_5750_Go_Green/29.html

Have that card, though it's not the best idle card (by a small amount), it's definitely the best under load.

idle: 14W
load: 62W

Greetz Audiodude


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:52 am 
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I can only offer my gaming machine for comparisons sake.

Athlon X2-3600EE
Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-US2H
2GB-Kit Corsair XMS DDR800-CL4
160GB Samsung HM160HI M5S1
LG GDR-H20N
SAPPHIRE Ultimate 4670 Radeon
300W BeQuiet Pure Power (BQT L6-UA)
Zalman 7500
Windows7-64-Ultimate

Idle: 48W
Full Load: 97W
(all at standard voltages)

I think this is really decent for a Gaming rig.

On a note; I am not so sure if a 30gb-SSD would give a so much better gain in overall performance, because I've never owned one.

I can play the following games so far @1920x1080 (max settings):

- Warhammer Online (ca.23-70fps)
- Venetica* (ca. 20-50fps)
- Left4Dead (never below 60fps)
- World Of Warcraft (10-130fps)
- City Of Heroes (never below 30fps)
- World In Conflict (@average settings: ca15-40fps)

So far my plans to upgrade my machine is getting me 16GB-DDR800 and a Phenom 910e... but I'm not sure if I want to ruin my PC's below 100W performance. ;o)

On a side note, whenever I try to lower the IGP's clock below 500MHZ to save some more power the PC crashes and reboots whenever I try to play a game (with the 4670, of course)..., not sure why.


*(personal tip!)


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