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 Post subject: Re: Water Cooling Heresy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 1:15 am
Posts: 278
Location: Sydney, Australia
Vicotnik wrote:

This was really a non-issue already back when the video was released.


This was actually my point! I didn't make it very clear sorry... but your CPU dying from getting momentarily too hot is a complete non-issue (running it at max temp for long periods of time may be a different issue however).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:20 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Tucson, AZ
Great thread, ces.

I had some similar questions when I was looking at cooling options. I decided I could go with a D14 (which I did) with two CPU fans and one rear exhaust fan or a water cooling system with three fans and a pump. The winner was obvious.

These days it's water vs. heatpipes as a conductor.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 3:44 am
Posts: 12
Location: Finland
eddieck wrote:
These days it's water vs. heatpipes as a conductor.

+ cooling area.

And promised pictures (sorry I went noctua ND-H14, because I will get even better water stuff in later year..So no pictures inside of the case):
Vesi1.jpg
Image
Vesi2.jpg
Image
Vesi3.jpg
Image
Vesi4.jpg
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Vesi5.jpg
Image

Watergear:
Mora 2, Phobya DC12-400 (yes I know, ITS noisy. Already got MCP 350 with xspc res top, but wanted to expand my knowledge), Swiftech micro res v.2 & HK3 LT. Without airflow I could play Dragon age awekening about 70c (max core temp) and room temp was 23c.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:35 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
MikeC wrote:
Big Pimp Daddy wrote:
As a side benefit, it takes a lot longer for water to heat up than air, meaning that short periods of high processor activity will not raise system temperatures greatly, hence no need to increase fanspeeds for a while. In my aircooled system sporadic high loads will cause the CPU fan (which is temperature controlled) to speed up and down as the load changes. This is a lot more noticeable and intrusive than a constant speed.

This is simply a matter of increasing the hysteresis of the feedback loop... or making the fan run at a steady speed just high enough to keep the CPU in this side of throttling at full load -- but then it will be way cool enough at all other times and probably still pretty quiet if you have a big heatsink.
MikeC, given the performance of today's supercoolers, where do you think the gating factor to best cooling performance is? Is it:
(a) getting the heat from the silicon to the metal surface of the CPU unit,
(b) getting the heat from that surface to the base plate of the cooler (whether water or air based),
(c) getting the heat from the surface of the base plate to the cooling medium (whether heat pipe or water),
(d) getting the heat from the cooling medium (whether heat pipe or water) to the fin array, or
(e) getting the heat from the fin array to the air?

It seems to me, just subjectively touching various parts of heat sinks, that contrary to my visual intuition, the fin arrays may be less critical than other, more subtle, parts of the heat sinks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 11902
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
ces wrote:
MikeC wrote:
Big Pimp Daddy wrote:
As a side benefit, it takes a lot longer for water to heat up than air, meaning that short periods of high processor activity will not raise system temperatures greatly, hence no need to increase fanspeeds for a while. In my aircooled system sporadic high loads will cause the CPU fan (which is temperature controlled) to speed up and down as the load changes. This is a lot more noticeable and intrusive than a constant speed.

This is simply a matter of increasing the hysteresis of the feedback loop... or making the fan run at a steady speed just high enough to keep the CPU in this side of throttling at full load -- but then it will be way cool enough at all other times and probably still pretty quiet if you have a big heatsink.
MikeC, given the performance of today's supercoolers, where do you think the gating factor to best cooling performance is? Is it:
(a) getting the heat from the silicon to the metal surface of the CPU unit,
(b) getting the heat from that surface to the base plate of the cooler (whether water or air based),
(c) getting the heat from the surface of the base plate to the cooling medium (whether heat pipe or water),
(d) getting the heat from the cooling medium (whether heat pipe or water) to the fin array, or
(e) getting the heat from the fin array to the air?

It seems to me, just subjectively touching various parts of heat sinks, that contrary to my visual intuition, the fin arrays may be less critical than other, more subtle, parts of the heat sinks.

Hard to say, surely depends on the particular heatsink model. But not, generally speaking, a, b, or e. Considering the many hs that have come through, I think that c and d could be affected by the quality of soldering/fit. Variations in the fin array also have significant impact but are usually tied to total area and impedance.

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