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 Post subject: Titan Fenrir & CM Hyper 212 Plus: Direct Touch Revisited
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 3:11 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/fenrir-hyper212


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:08 am 
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Very impressed with the value for money of the 212 Plus, looks to be a good budget cooler, especially for am2/3 set ups with the correct orientation mount


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:35 am 
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Lawrence Lee's article wrote:
Titan is based in Taiwan, which has a little known, but incredibly macabre Christmas tradition.

Can't leave us dangling there, what is this tradition? My google-fu isn't working this morning - searching for taiwan christmas tradition was unproductive.

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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:59 am 
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Jay_S wrote:
Lawrence Lee's article wrote:
Titan is based in Taiwan, which has a little known, but incredibly macabre Christmas tradition.

Can't leave us dangling there, what is this tradition? My google-fu isn't working this morning - searching for taiwan christmas tradition was unproductive.

Based on the blood red and pitch black colour scheme, I would have expected to see some blood red coloured thermal paste, or at least razor sharp edges on the heatsink fins for the installer to inadvertently celebrate X'Mas in the traditional Taiwanese way :)

My only wish is if we could get that Coolermaster tested with two fans, then I wouldn't have anything left to ponder.

All jokes aside, this is the first review I've read every page of in quite some time. Well done Lawrence Lee, and thank you to Tzupy for your donation to get the Titan Fenrir reviewed. I hope to see more reviews like this in the future.


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:06 am 
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I look very clever now for having ordered a 212+ a few hours before you posted the review. :D Though now I guess I may have to swap in a different fan. What's a good 120mm PWM fan to pair with it (if the density of the fins is much of a factor in fan choice...)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:11 am 
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Funny how other tech sites strongly recommend the titan for being a great all round cooler. Of course, other tech sites have a grossly distorted definition of 'silent'.


Typo on page 10 " The thickness of its fin may also harm cooling efficiency with a low speed fa."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:15 am 
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fwiffo wrote:
I look very clever now for having ordered a 212+ a few hours before you posted the review. :D Though now I guess I may have to swap in a different fan. What's a good 120mm PWM fan to pair with it (if the density of the fins is much of a factor in fan choice...)

A non PMW fan is probably going to be better. Nexus or scythe s-flex are very good. I have a scythe kama flex (a lower cost s-flex). Its also good.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:22 am 
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Why non-PWM? My motherboard has PWM headers and it will permit lower RPMs, no?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:35 am 
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I agree it would be more logical to replace one PWM fan with another. PWM fan control from the CPU header relates to the temperature of the processor so it will automatically adjust rpm to take account of cooler fin width/spacing differences as well as ambient temperature and air flow within the case.

Given the right choice of unit this brings the prospect of exploring the dual fan push/pull option. Fan choices that could be considered are the Arctic Cooling F12 with its built in PWM sharing, the Gelid models which include a two PWM fan splitter cable, and other PWM fans including the Akasa Apaches and the Scythe PWM Slipstreams using a separately purchased multiple PWM fan cable such as the one from Akasa.

Replacing stock fans is arguably more difficult to contemplate if you are paying Noctua prices for instance, but it is an economic propostion because the 212 Plus is selling in the UK for around £22, and I would suspect similar prices elsewhere. By any standards that's an exceptional price for such a competent cooler.


Last edited by lodestar on Wed May 12, 2010 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:02 am 
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This is probably your worst test to date. At least it should prove to everyone that testing at stock voltage does absolutely nothing for a good product.

I mean why would anyone even consider a different heatsink since the 212+ is a mere 3 degrees worse than the best which is also 3 times more expensive.

Its ok to address a group of people who prioritize silence but to assume none of them overclocks is a mistake. This for me is the last drop, I will continue reading your articles but I'm not going to be recommend them. Too bad if you ask me since pushing the voltage up a notch or two only takes a few extra minutes.


Last edited by dev on Wed May 12, 2010 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:32 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
Why non-PWM? My motherboard has PWM headers and it will permit lower RPMs, no?

Because PWM fans means less choice, which means worse quality fans (from a noise perspective) as well. All the recommended and best fans are not going to be PWM - unless there are any I am missing?

Also, PWM on my mobo is loud with clicking or other unwanted noises. DC fan control on my mobo works much better and is smooth. So PWM is inferior to DC adjustment.


Last edited by DAve_M on Mon May 10, 2010 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 1:33 pm 
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dev wrote:
This is probably your worst test to date. At least it should prove to everyone that testing at stock voltage does absolutely nothing for a good product.

I mean why would anyone even consider a different heatsink since the 212+ is a mere 3 degrees worse than the best which is also 3 times more expensive.


The Comparison Chart on page 9 shows the °C rise. So the best (top left) to the worst (bottom right) already spans a temperature range of approx 60-80 °C. For a CPU that is already pushing it to a level that would start to be feeling uncomfortable. You want overclocking as well? I don't see the point.

Secondly, your statement, testing at stock voltage does absolutely nothing for a good product, is just nonsense. Did you even read it all? The hyper was cheaper that the fenrir as well as outperforming it. If you want overclocked results with high speed fans just to spread out the results then you came to the wrong place.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:36 pm 
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Hi Lawrence,

Why not use include measurements for sound level vs RPM using PWM instead of reduced voltage? I think it would be a more valid test considering that this review was for a heatsink with a PWM fan.

I'm running the CM Hyper 212+ on an AMD Athlon II X3 440, and it's very quiet under my normal server load since it's being PWM speed regulated. It's about the same sound level as my Antec Tricool 120mm set to low. I was planning to replace it with a quieter fan, but the reality is - it never spins up because the CPU just can't put out enough heat.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Well this is a timely review indeed. I'm about to reload my old crate with the latest goodies, and have been waffling on a cpu heatsink between an HR-01+ and a Megahalems. The HR-01+ can't be had at newegg.ca and so would mean a second order, extra shipping, etc, and the Megahalems has me concerned about ram clearance. Now I can get a narrow cooler and save money in the process.

I still irrationally want an HR-01+, though.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:23 am 
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dev wrote:
Too bad if you ask me since pushing the voltage up a notch or two only takes a few extra minutes.

SPCR used to overvolt to 1.4V but if you read their latest revision to the heatsink methodology article, they couldn't get consistent results by doing so.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 3:10 pm 
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is it just me or has the TRUE120 completely lost its value here? :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 7:23 pm 
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DAve_M wrote:
If you want overclocked results with high speed fans just to spread out the results then you came to the wrong place.


the object of quiet overclocking is to do it with the least amount of fan noise, and depending on how much you overclock, fan configuration, etc., there is no reason to blindly lump all overclocking attempts into a category of "high speed fans".

the gist of what both you and dev are saying is true, spcr has been moving in the direction of more silence with less performance; you can see it with the case awards, the p18x series that mike worked on with antec was left in the dust, in favor of an obsolete solo case that needs a design overhaul.

these reviews still have good info, it's just not as relevant for all of us as it used to be.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 8:28 pm 
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Oh come on. There's always been a strong element on SPCR of trading performance for lower noise. One of the early articles was about how to underclock your cpu to bring heat down so you could slow your fans down. My sense is that SPCR's movement has been towards more performance-oriented gear, not away from it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:25 am 
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The way I see the things:
- first spcr changed the testing platform from lga 775 to lga 1366 in order to better differentiate the CPU coolers from each other: more W -> bigger differences;
- second they introduce the concept of the overclocked system in the equation to even differentiate more the CPU coolers. I was very happy.
- third they realized that the platform (the mobo) is not producing the same results over the time: they changed the mobo with a new one;
- fourth they not doing anymore the overclocked system results. Why they did it in the first place? Was then a need for that and now it isn't anymore?
- fifth they will return to lga 775 platform because who wants silence will not use a lga 1366 platform and there is no need to differentiate too much the CPU coolers
- I'll start to watch other sites for CPU coolers information in order to find valuable information for an mildly overclocked i5/i7, because the spcr can't provided it anymore. :(


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:58 am 
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lodestar wrote:
Incidentally thanks to SPCR for pointing out that one model of 212 Plus comes with two sets of fan clips and another without.


I want to make a correction here. I have an RR-B10-212P-GB and it does come with 4 wire clips. The included manual lists 4 of them as well. I bought it roughly 6 months ago -- I couldn't say if they've changed the accessory bundle since then, but I doubt it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:52 am 
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Yes, I have seen a RR-B10-212P-GP version today and it does indeed come with two sets of wire clips. So dual fan use, with the second fan optional, is a standard feature of the Hyper 212 Plus. It might be helpful if the review was corrected.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:33 am 
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I actually don't understand where this fear of placing a few FAILED inside a table at the end of a test is coming from. It could at least serve as a warning: yes this product might be acceptable at lower loads but it comes short at higher TDPs.

Maybe its a way of being politically correct and respecting a manufacturer that sends you samples but in the long run your going to disappoint the people who actually matter, the readers.

I get every bit of the silent front propaganda but I don't get the half baked articles with questionable results.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:43 am 
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dev wrote:
I actually don't understand where this fear of placing a few FAILED inside a table at the end of a test is coming from. It could at least serve as a warning: yes this product might be acceptable at lower loads but it comes short at higher TDPs.

Maybe its a way of being politically correct and respecting a manufacturer that sends you samples but in the long run your going to disappoint the people who actually matter, the readers.

I get every bit of the silent front propaganda but I don't get the half baked articles with questionable results.


Just what are you going on about? That didn't make any sense to me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:12 am 
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Flanker wrote:
is it just me or has the TRUE120 completely lost its value here? :lol:


No, some of us bought it when it was first put on market, which is now 3 years ago and it still works fine today. It's a part that can be moved to a new build, performing perfectly adequate, only requiring a $7 bracket...
I consider that a good buy, even tho it was pricey way back when, and isn't really worth buying new anymore...

That being said, I tend to end up with a Xigmatek cooler whenever I upgrade or build a pc these days, I just replace the fan with a Nexus.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 12:16 pm 
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In increase in performance can come from upgrading to the latest core micro architecture, not necessarily overclocking it as well. It is the trade off that you might have to make to stick to the ideal of silent computing.


danimal wrote:
the object of quiet overclocking is to do it with the least amount of fan noise, and depending on how much you overclock, fan configuration, etc., there is no reason to blindly lump all overclocking attempts into a category of "high speed fans".

But being realistic, the nexus 120mm is the SPCR reference fan of choice. Since it is running at at full speed, 12v, 100%, and is also pushing 60°C with a top heatsink like the megahalems, then for sure a more high speed fan would be needed for overclocking. The results already show that at full speed it is at 16dBA which is pretty much at the limit while being 'silent'.

So, to say something like "let's see some overclocked results, how hard can it be? It only takes a few extra mins..." Well, it's not that easy while still being SPCR. An article that aims to cool an overclocked system as quietly as possible would be interesting as a separate article. But just to explain how difficult that would be, try looking up power consumption numbers. Lots of people manage 4GHz it seems so that would be a good place to start at. According to THIS, power consumption goes up by 180W! That's on top of the power that it uses at stock, not how much the overclocked CPU uses! So imagine trying to work that into reviews with that reference Nexus fan. A separate article however...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:44 pm 
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I get the feeling that some here are missing the point of SilentPCReview. I still consider SPCR heatsink reviews to be among the best because:
1. Always test with reference fan at fixed speeds
2. Test with fan speeds most meaningful to me (most other review sites use >1200rpm as the slowest speed, or use PWM without bothering to report the actual speed under load, etc)
3. Convenient and easy to read result table
4. Meaningful noise measurements (far ahead of peers)

Other good examples of good heatsink reviews for noise conscious users:
http://www.dexgo.com/index.php?site=art ... re&seite=6


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:59 pm 
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Quote:
This is probably your worst test to date. Its ok to address a group of people who prioritize silence but to assume none of them overclocks is a mistake.

I thought this review was pretty straight forward and am shocked to see all these confused replies. Using the reference fan, the Hyper 212 outperformed the titan at low cfm both in temperature and noise. The review was not about how much cooling either heatsink can do regardless of noise.

Quote:
more logical to replace one PWM fan with another

Quote:
Why non-PWM?

PWM voltage control while efficient at voltage reduction is inherently noisier than using variable DC regulators. The acronym stands for pulse width modulation meaning the voltage is turning off many times per second so the fan creates more motor noise in the form of clicks (subjective analyzation usually is noted in reviews about these oddities). Let us all move away from the "use PWM" arugument since noise reduction is a common goal at SPCR.

Also I see the temperature controlled option being argued but a fan that has a varying rpm is perceived as noisy because the human ear really detects changes in pitch very well while low volume constants tend to be ignored over time. So ideally, testing with a constant voltage is best for measurement. On this note, I really do not understand the like for the yo-yo effect of temperature controlled fans.

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 9:55 am 
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Flanker wrote:
is it just me or has the TRUE120 completely lost its value here? :lol:


Not all you can't compare the Hyper 212+ to the Noctua,Megahales,TRUE there is a issue with the RR-B10-212P-GB when using fans other then the stock one. Due to the stock fan having rubber mounts on the back and replacements fans don't, it causes the fans to fit loose and viberate very annoying. Not to mention the general build quality,retention hardware and finish are lacking compared to the big boys.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:39 am 
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Thanks for another solid review. The Titan Fenrir looks like a terrible heatsink for quiet performance. Seems like its performance mostly comes from being paired with a high speed fan and simply having a lot of metal to conduct heat away instead of better engineering design. The fact that it reviewed so well elsewhere clearly shows that those other tech sites don't control their experimental variables well (if at all).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 11:57 am 
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johnniecache7 wrote:
Due to the stock fan having rubber mounts on the back and replacements fans don't, it causes the fans to fit loose and viberate very annoying.


Where did you get that from - the rubber mounts on the stock fan can just be removed and mounted to a replacement fan. Incidentally if you want to be really adventurous and don't mind squashing the top and bottom fins just a little bit it is possible to fit the ThermalRight optional fan duct (Blue) designed for the HR-01/HR-01+ to the Hyper 212 Plus. That could open up some interesting possibilities.

johnniecache7 wrote:
Not to mention the general build quality,retention hardware and finish are lacking compared to the big boys.


There is no mention of this in the review. The mount seems a bit fiddly to install maybe, but as the review points out it works well enough. It may indeed not be in the same league as the big boys in some ways, but then it doesn't come with the big boys price. The TRUE? At 50% more expensive than the 212 without fan? History, I would say.


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