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 Post subject: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:37 pm 
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A non-optical, non-wireless USB mouse. Does it exist?

I certainly can't find one in the stores in my town.
A quiet one would be nice too. :)
I can't tolerate the EMF's from the opticals/wireless.

In the meantime I have a PS/2 mouse with a USB adapter, but trying to improve on that.

TIA


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Wrap the optical mouse in aluminium, perhaps?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:00 pm 
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qviri wrote:
Wrap the optical mouse in aluminium, perhaps?


I haven't thought of that one.
Might try it the next time.
Thanks.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:00 am 
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ever consider using a touch pad instead of mouse?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 11:09 am 
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EMFs?

Optical mice have a led and a camera, essentially.

The old kind of mice that had rubber balls, still had leds and light sensors, but they just were inside the mouse, tracking hole patterns in disks that were spun by the ball.

I don't see how any kind of mouse should be any better in this regard.

Actually, the computer and display themselves probably give much higher EMF.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 6:28 am 
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Location: the Netherlands
Ball mice don't have optical sensors, they have two wheels pressing against the ball, at a 90 degree angle of eachother, to detect horizontal and vertical movement and one wheel on the other side to keep the ball pressed against the first two. If you have an old style mouse, you can check this by taking the ball out and trying what happens if you just roll those wheels around with your finger. There may have been mice that worked like you say, though I only remember a logitech trackball that worked like that myself, but most didn't.
As for ball mice existing with usb connectors, I'm pretty sure they do, we had them at work I think... They were delivered with our HP systems, but they've recently all been replaced with opticals (thankfully, having to clean those things all the time was driving me nuts).
I've checked the local pricewatch though, but the only mice I found were either some very exotic weird models, or the ones that looked ok I checked and it seems they were just mislabeled in the pricewatch and are in fact opticals.
Why is using the ps2 mouse with an adapter a problem though? I've used those in the past without noticing any problems myself...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 11:33 am 
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Finraziel wrote:
Ball mice don't have optical sensors...

Some did; I had a few myself in the past. I found a page with some good pictures of such a mouse.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
A non-optical, non-wireless USB mouse. Does it exist?

I don't know if this would be what you're after, but Razer make some mice with infrared sensors instead of the usual optical lasers - I think it is the Death Adder and the Diamondback models from memory.

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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:30 pm 
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Location: shenzhen,GD
NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
A non-optical, non-wireless USB mouse. Does it exist?

I certainly can't find one in the stores in my town.
A quiet one would be nice too. :)
I can't tolerate the EMF's from the opticals/wireless.

In the meantime I have a PS/2 mouse with a USB adapter, but trying to improve on that.

TIA

I just saw the wired USB mouse(equal non-wireless) on sourcingmap
In my mind the non-optical mice doesn't exist, I'm wondering whether you mean such one,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 6:05 am 
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Location: Ottawa
Finraziel wrote:
Ball mice don't have optical sensors...


Yes they do, at least any that you would find from the past 25+ years on a PC. In fact the first ball mouse made back in 1972 used optical sensors. The two wheels are actually shafts with disks on the ends inside the mouse body. The disks are optical encoding disks which have slits evenly spaced around the circumference. The optical sensors detect movement by watching for breaks in the light caused by the disks rotating.

It's far more primitive than what we now call an optical mouse, but it still used optical sensors to track movement.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:59 am 
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Hi,

NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
I can't tolerate the EMF's from the opticals/wireless


By "EMF" do you mean "electro-magnetic fields"? If so, how are these affecting you?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 5:13 pm 
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Location: Vancouver, BC
Mr Evil wrote:
Finraziel wrote:
Ball mice don't have optical sensors...

Some did; I had a few myself in the past. I found a page with some good pictures of such a mouse.


As washu says, this sort of mechanism is standard in all ball mice as it is by far the most compact, simple way of counting a disk's rotations.

Unfortunately, if someone is bothered by an infrared LED they are likely to have larger problems than computer mice.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Location: Sweden, Stockholm
qviri wrote:
Unfortunately, if someone is bothered by an infrared LED they are likely to have larger problems than computer mice.


So true. Mouse is not a problem here....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
xan_user wrote:
ever consider using a touch pad instead of mouse?



Well actually, the computer that the mouse is intended for is the Asus eeePC, which has a touch pad.

I was using the touchpad, which is OK for very short term use, but longer than 10 or 15 minutes at a time, the pad becomes a PITA for me.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:43 pm 
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Finraziel wrote:
...Why is using the ps2 mouse with an adapter a problem though? I've used those in the past without noticing any problems myself...


The above setup works just fine actually.
I'm simply trying to slim down the attachments.

The PS/2 to USB adaptor is a little chunky and has a keyboard plug that I don't need as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:44 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
JamieG wrote:
NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
A non-optical, non-wireless USB mouse. Does it exist?

I don't know if this would be what you're after, but Razer make some mice with infrared sensors instead of the usual optical lasers - I think it is the Death Adder and the Diamondback models from memory.


Thanks.
I believe I've tried IR mice as well as optical mice and had basically the same problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:51 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
joe1215 wrote:

...I just saw the wired USB mouse(equal non-wireless) on sourcingmap
In my mind the non-optical mice doesn't exist, I'm wondering whether you mean such one,


Perhaps you can tell me what the page/link is to the mouse?
I couldn't find it there.

Well, by non-optical, I mean a mouse that doesn't say "Optical mouse" on its box. Pretty simple really.


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 Post subject: Re: Non-optical USB mouse?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:59 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
NeilBlanchard wrote:
Hi,

NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
I can't tolerate the EMF's from the opticals/wireless


By "EMF" do you mean "electro-magnetic fields"? If so, how are these affecting you?



Hi Neil,

Yes it's the electro-magnetic fields (EMF's) that I am referring to.
They are felt directly in my temples.

I can feel them from hard drives (even notebook drives that are basically inaudible), CPU's (Dual-cores, Atoms, many others as well), optical mice,
certain screens/monitors, many power adapters (printers, notebooks etc.) and recently I was surprised to feel even the WiFi from my eeePC!

In every case I always do A/B tests to make sure I target the exact
source of the EMF's.

I haven't purchased a gauss meter yet, but if someone can recommend a good reliable one at a decent price I'll probably go for it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:01 pm 
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qviri wrote:

Unfortunately, if someone is bothered by an infrared LED they are likely to have larger problems than computer mice.


Could you please rephrase this so I can understand exactly what you are saying?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Location: UK
NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
qviri wrote:

Unfortunately, if someone is bothered by an infrared LED they are likely to have larger problems than computer mice.


Could you please rephrase this so I can understand exactly what you are saying?

He probably means that although there are a large number of people claiming to suffer from electrosensitivity, double-blind tests show every time that it's purely psychological.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:19 am 
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Optical sensors, by definition do not have anything to do with electromagnetic forces. Wireless mice use radio frequencies, which are quite different from electromagnetic forces.

A wired optical tracking mouse would seem to be the solution to totally avoid EMF.

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http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:33 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
NeilBlanchard wrote:
Optical sensors, by definition do not have anything to do with electromagnetic forces. Wireless mice use radio frequencies, which are quite different from electromagnetic forces.

A wired optical tracking mouse would seem to be the solution to totally avoid EMF.


Thanks Neil for this info.
Whatever frequencies/fields are being emitted, I can feel them in my temples as pressure.

I can also feel cellphone emissions whenever I put a cellphone near my head (which is very seldom as I don't own a cellphone).

I have tried many _wired optical tracking mice and each one has produced the same results.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Mr Evil wrote:
He probably means that although there are a large number of people claiming to suffer from electrosensitivity, double-blind tests show every time that it's purely psychological.


Rather than second guess what someone else means, I will wait until he speaks for himself and then reply to him.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Location: Guelph, Canada
Let me put this in perspective.

I don't really care if it is EMF's, radio frequencies, IR frequencies, X-rays, or any other type of emission that we are talking about.

I can feel the emissions from basic power adapters. And they bug me big time.

The power adapter that came with my HP all-in-one printer is really nasty.
I am forced to leave it unplugged most of the time and just plug it into the wall whenever I need to print.

And I am on the third HP power adapter too. I'm using the best of the three but it still causes discomfort.

A while back I was intrigued by a fanless case/power supply mentioned here. I went out and bought one.
Tried it out, and could feel the emissions from the power supply. So back to the store it went minus the 15% re-stocking fee.

We are all different. I just happen to be a super-sensitive person.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:03 pm 
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NoiseFreeGuy wrote:
Let me put this in perspective.
I can feel the emissions from basic power adapters. And they bug me big time.


I am not trying to insult you, but no you can't. *NO ONE* has ever been able to detect such things in a double blind test. You think you can and have a reaction when they are around, but it's all in your head. If you can setup a real double blind test I highly suggest you do so, it would be very enlightening. A sighted A/B test is useless, it has to be truly double blind.

Now, in some cases you might be hearing noise from some power supplies. Lots of people can here those. But that's not what you are claiming. You claim to be affected by EMF, which, again, no one has ever demonstrated detecting in a proper controlled double blind test.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:44 pm 
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It must be difficult for you to go outside with all the EMF from the sun!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:47 pm 
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I'm not here to prove anything to anyone.
I asked a simple question:

A non-optical, non-wireless USB mouse. Does it exist?

That's all.

If anyone wants to ridicule me, go right ahead.
But think carefully before you post, because the record will remain here.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Location: Florida
I've never heard of one. As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, even if you could find a ball-mouse these days, they all have optical sensors inside. There simply isn't any other mechanism that's used. So, the answer is "no".

But you're not having a reaction to your mouse. If you were, then you'd be having much stronger reactions to everyday objects like lamps, the sun, radioactive elements in soil/rocks, the air, raccoons, etc. which emit more of pretty much everything that you claim you might be reacting to. Unless you keep the mouse with you inside a Faraday cage, any emissions from it would be drowned out by the background, your computer, almost any other device on your USB bus, etc.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:13 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
This is the best solution:

http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Expert ... B00009KH63

Wired, high precision, and immune to most dirt and grime. Worth every penny.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:29 am 
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Plekto wrote:
This is the best solution:

http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Expert ... B00009KH63

Wired, high precision, and immune to most dirt and grime. Worth every penny.


Trackballs have optical sensors just like ball mice do.


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