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 Post subject: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:53 pm 
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ok i'm trying to save and sell stuff to have money to buy a new GTX 460. I'm pissed about the GTS 450 having only 128-bits bus width...when my 9600GT and GTS 250 have 256-bits...

So which one should i pick? i like eVGA, but can be expensive sometimes. Asus can be lower-priced at times, but the built quality can be so-so and some coil whines can occur...

I also noticed than on standard Nvidia specs

so for under 200$CAN, which GTX 460 could you recommend me?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Seems like the price is more like 225-250CAN. Here's a review of a bunch of 460's at Guru3D.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:21 pm 
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sometimes i just think it might be less expensive to order from USA even with the currency exchange and shipping...

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Whatever you do, get the 1 GB version. It's better value for your money, and when you do have to let it go, you can bet it'll sell better than the 768s.

I've been okay with the Gainward 460 GLH. It is not silent - hell, the fan spins at 40% - but if value for money is what you're after, this is a decent one. Suits my gaming and work rig just fine.

PS. Whoever's bemoaning those prices you have over there, come to Finland: cheapest 1 GB 460 is 230 EUROS. That's 322 Canadian. :roll:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:00 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Whatever you do, get the 1 GB version. It's better value for your money, and when you do have to let it go, you can bet it'll sell better than the 768s.

...SNIPPED OUT...

PS. Whoever's bemoaning those prices you have over there, come to Finland: cheapest 1 GB 460 is 230 EUROS. That's 322 Canadian. :roll:

So how has it a better value for the money ratio?

However, here in Italy the cheapest GTX 460s I've been able to find cost 130 euros for the 768MB variant, while 184 euros for the 1GB model.

Regards,
Luca


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:07 am 
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Here's a review that compares fps x memory size.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:00 am 
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I've been happy with my MSI Cyclone 1GBs. Those and the Gigabytes are generally said to be the quietest examples (not sure where the new MSI Hawk version stands), though of course you won't have the lifetime warranty that eVGA and XFX would have. And of course, not sure about prices up in the frozen north, but south of the border the 1GBs are usually ~US$230 and the 768MBs are ~US$200 which doesn't bode well considering the usual price differences.

Generally you'd "want" the 1GB version since it's not trimmed down like the 768MB, but that likely would break the budget and depending on what you play it may not really matter in the end. Is there a particular reason you're going for the 460 over other cards?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:10 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
So how has it a better value for the money ratio?


768 460s are chopped in more ways than VRAM chip count. As well as having reduced memory capacity (and cache, 384 vs 512 kB), they have less ROPs and the memory bus is 192-bit and not the full 256-bit. I just can't justify buying that over the 'proper' 1GB version when the price difference is - in most cases I have seen - so little. It's like they made a really, really nice cake, and then took away all the strawberries on top that all the tasters were so impressed with.

Thanks for digging up that review CA_Steve. It's a quick comparison that showcases how the cut-down 768 won't get going when the going gets tough. If all you play is Sims at laptop resolutions, you shouldn't be buying a 460 anyway! :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:58 am 
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I got the Gigabyte 1GB version and it is very quiet. Not silent, but pretty quiet. Haven't had a chance to really push it yet, but so far I'm very happy.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:59 pm 
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if you can wait 3 weeks or so, this is the deal to get:

ASUS GTX460 1 GB GDDR5 ENGTX460 DirectCU TOP/2DI/1GD5 - $174.99!
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread ... &t=2266507


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:13 pm 
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gvblake22 wrote:
I got the Gigabyte 1GB version and it is very quiet. Not silent, but pretty quiet. Haven't had a chance to really push it yet, but so far I'm very happy.


Does it have an accessible fan control and have you had a chance to mess with it?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:24 pm 
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I'm pretty happy with my evga now that a BIOS update slowed idle fan speed to 30% which is much much quieter than the previous speed of 40%.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:59 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:
So how has it a better value for the money ratio?


768 460s are chopped in more ways than VRAM chip count. As well as having reduced memory capacity (and cache, 384 vs 512 kB), they have less ROPs and the memory bus is 192-bit and not the full 256-bit. I just can't justify buying that over the 'proper' 1GB version when the price difference is - in most cases I have seen - so little. It's like they made a really, really nice cake, and then took away all the strawberries on top that all the tasters were so impressed with.

Thanks for digging up that review CA_Steve. It's a quick comparison that showcases how the cut-down 768 won't get going when the going gets tough. If all you play is Sims at laptop resolutions, you shouldn't be buying a 460 anyway! :D


Are you even looking at the same review? :P

In the graph, the 1GB version averaged 3 fps more at 1920x1200 and 1 fps more at 2560x1600. The only thing they said negative about the 768MB was that in some extreme situations, like running 8x AA at these high resolutions with maxed settings on certain games, the 768MB version became unplayable, due to not having enough memory for such a large framebuffer. Reducing the AA a bit resulted in framerates that would be almost indistinguishable between the two cards.

Also, it should probably be noted that the majority of gamers don't have screens at these resolutions anyway. According to the latest Steam Hardware Survey, only around 20% of gamers using Steam have screen resolutions higher than 1680x1050. Granted, a fair portion of these may be notebooks or older systems, but I'd say there are still significantly more recent desktops with screens at 1680x1050 or below than there are above.

Games will eventually require more memory to run well with good graphics settings, but the majority of PC game releases are currently designed to look good on consoles as well. The PS3 has just 256MB of video memory, so even a 512MB video card will be capable of playing a game with higher texture quality and resolution. Certainly there will be the occasional PC exclusive that pushes the limits of what desktop video hardware can do, but most developers aren't interested in making a game that won't look or play well on most mid-range gaming systems.

As for the price, the going rate for a GTX 460 768MB at Newegg is currently around $170 shipped (in the US), with a couple models having mail-in rebates bringing them to $150. The 1GB models start at $220, and most are priced higher yet, with the best mail-in rebate resulting in a $200 final price. So currently, the 1GB models are selling for $50 more than their 768MB counterparts here. Thats around a 30% higher price, for only marginal performance gains of perhaps 5 to 10%. I wouldn't say that's exactly a "little" price difference. The prices are a bit different at the Canadian site, though the least expensive models are still priced comparably, albeit with higher shipping and taxes. While it might be different in other parts of the world, at least in North America, the 768MB model is arguably more attractive from a price/performance standpoint right now.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:08 am 
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Yeah, it's not the most convincing difference, but I wanted to be nice to Steve for looking that up. Personally, I like ample headroom, and do play at higher resolutions, so that's where I come from. What runs at the limit of comfortable today is going to outdate fast tomorrow. Game optimization sure isn't getting any better.

Learned that the hard way (6800 LE, 5770), so now I buy and think about cards I'll want to keep for a rig's lifetime.

Edit1: Couldn't connect to SPCR for some time for some reason, but wanted to say that I am surprised the difference in the US is so great. At the time I bought my factory-overclocked GLH, it was a <20 EUR difference between the standard 1GB GS and the 1GB GLH, and <30 EUR difference to the available 768 model.

I can see now that there's a lot more selection available that wasn't there when I bought mine, and that the cheapest 768 in stock at my favourite store now is 200 EUR and the GLH is 250. Absolute cheapest is 8-16 days on backorder and 163 EUR. That is a difference that would made me think.

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Last edited by Das_Saunamies on Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:59 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Yeah, it's not the most convincing difference, but I wanted to be nice to Steve for looking that up.


Heh. Thanks for your concern. :D I tried to post the link in a neutral manner to let the OP figure out whether he needs the 768 or 1GB. I'm kind of ambivalent on it for my use. A year from now, with more directx11 games and more use of tesselation, etc, it might be a handy edge. On the other hand, I try to stick to $200 gpu solutions.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 11:59 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Das_Saunamies wrote:
Yeah, it's not the most convincing difference, but I wanted to be nice to Steve for looking that up.


Heh. Thanks for your concern. :D I tried to post the link in a neutral manner to let the OP figure out whether he needs the 768 or 1GB. I'm kind of ambivalent on it for my use. A year from now, with more directx11 games and more use of tesselation, etc, it might be a handy edge. On the other hand, I try to stick to $200 gpu solutions.


Aye, it's just nice when people readily link up and don't just give their 2 cents. :)

I guess my main gripe is on principle, since it's such a cheap move to cut down a card in more ways than are made visible - it's not just 1GB vs 768, it's more that you lose. And you never know what gimmick is going to prove vital or handy in the next round of the Tech Wheel of Fortune.

Still waiting on that 5850 price drop...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:05 am 
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Das_Saunamies wrote:
Still waiting on that 5850 price drop...

I mean 6700 should arrive first... however I guess Nvidia should have to drop prices, not ATI.

By the way, when a videocard costs +30% (Newegg prices, USA) or +40% (my prices, IT) more than another one, you cannot simply say the more expensive, the better: it have to be so. You have just to know what's good for you: looking for headroom, why not a 480 or a 5970? Ok, because they cannot be quiet.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:56 am 
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Quite interesting: http://www.galaxytech.com/en/newsview.aspx?id=671

(Wrote also this in an another tread in here)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:57 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Das_Saunamies wrote:
Still waiting on that 5850 price drop...

I mean 6700 should arrive first... however I guess Nvidia should have to drop prices, not ATI.

By the way, when a videocard costs +30% (Newegg prices, USA) or +40% (my prices, IT) more than another one, you cannot simply say the more expensive, the better: it have to be so. You have just to know what's good for you: looking for headroom, why not a 480 or a 5970? Ok, because they cannot be quiet.


Yeah I lost connectivity to SPCR (once again) to amend my comment, was to do with the coming AMD cards and differences and availability of 460 at the time I was buying.

Effin' hate discussing the same thing in two threads with no interaction between the two.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:50 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
gvblake22 wrote:
I got the Gigabyte 1GB version and it is very quiet. Not silent, but pretty quiet. Haven't had a chance to really push it yet, but so far I'm very happy.


Does it have an accessible fan control and have you had a chance to mess with it?

No, I really haven't had a chance to mess with it. I didn't install any Gigabyte specific software (only the stock nVidia driver) so I don't know if there is any special fan speed control. Sorry that wasn't much help, but holler if you have any other Q's!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:07 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
gvblake22 wrote:
I got the Gigabyte 1GB version and it is very quiet. Not silent, but pretty quiet. Haven't had a chance to really push it yet, but so far I'm very happy.


Does it have an accessible fan control and have you had a chance to mess with it?
Fan control is accessible through MSI Afterburner but it's hardcoded at 40% minimum.

Considering it idles at 38° C in my Silverstone LC17 (which I modded to have a central NF-S12-800 blowing cool air from the outside toward the graphic card) it would be great to set the minimum at 30%. With that setting it wouldn't be silent but it would be acceptable. At 40%... it depends on the rest of your system.

Sound quality is pretty good. No whining or other undesirable tonal characteristics. Not to my ears at least.

NiBiTor is currently offering the ability to lower the BIOS minimum fan setting to donors. Sooner or later that will come out as the free version.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 7:39 pm 
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afterburner 1.6.1 will give you manual fan control down to 25%, and auto fan control down to 20%, but i don't know how accurate those numbers are... it's what i get with the asus 460's.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:17 am 
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Gainward won't go below 40% with Afterburner 2.0.0.

I got the Asus 5770 down to 20% (though only in numbers, fan speed stayed the same since BIOS overrode settings below 30% I think), so I know the program can do it, but the Gainward won't do it, not even number-wise.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:52 pm 
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So...any card that works by default with the fan at 30%?


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:05 am 
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Does anyone know if a S1 rev2 could fit onto a 460GTX? I kinda want it over a 6850. Tesselation works better. I also know of no one that uses 4x aa, 2x aa is quit a huge jump visually, 4x is miniscule, and AF, well the first level of it at like 4x does immense amouint as well.

Also, I know of no one who games at less than 1920x1200 myself..... even if steam says whatver, the visual difference is huge too.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:59 pm 
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~El~Jefe~ wrote:
Does anyone know if a S1 rev2 could fit onto a 460GTX? I kinda want it over a 6850. Tesselation works better. I also know of no one that uses 4x aa, 2x aa is quit a huge jump visually, 4x is miniscule, and AF, well the first level of it at like 4x does immense amouint as well.

Also, I know of no one who games at less than 1920x1200 myself..... even if steam says whatver, the visual difference is huge too.


Nope the S1 doesn't fit the GTX 460 but the GELID Icy Vision does and under volted it's much better cooler then the S1 rev 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 9:36 pm 
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It won't fit onto palit/gainward 460, unless removing few fins is an option. In the case of S1, the one heatpipe has to go, leaving 3 other intact. but the mounting holes are compatible, as opposed to all other 460's wich are not, having different holes.

I have mine undervolted to 0.925V, and 10% oc'd 1540/3700Mhz. It is almost silent.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:05 pm 
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yuu wrote:
I have mine undervolted to 0.925V, and 10% oc'd 1540/3700Mhz. It is almost silent.


I'm putting together a new build with a 1Gb MSI Cyclone soon and just wanted to be clear: you've undervolted your card and OC'd it by 10%? What is your GPU clock now? I assume those are the shader + memory clocks

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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:19 pm 
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I did this, few seem to be impressed, and not many are willing to edit their bios and do some bios flashing to remove few watts

I measured the system power usage with the same frequencies 750/1500/3800Mhz and different voltages, 0.912V is my personal best, 0.95 the setting on most cards, 1.00 is my default voltage, and that is hot, vrm regulation gets really hot, given furmark is unrealistically heavy, ~30 watts more than any game loading the gpu at 100% under dx9.

0.912V - 250W
0.950V - 265W
1.000V - 285W

There is not much difference between 0.95 and 0.912 it seems. considering 85% psu eff and all.

Image

The card also boots with 0.875V as 3d (of course that is the default 2d voltage). memory speed will have to be lowered for that too, since memory controller demands voltage. Some isnane low voltages are possible as 3d, 0.875v could stay as 2d just to ensure that the card boots.

MSI is probably much higher quality product that my palit, good choice there.


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 Post subject: Re: Which GTX 460 to choose?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:21 pm
Posts: 2764
Location: NEW YORK WORD AND STUFF YEAH OK
I dont know if anyone noticed this about the review, but it said that in some tests, the 768 MB version could NOT score. It was left out. Some programmers set their crap to utilize all of that video ram, that'a quite obvious. If you cant afford a 460gtx 1GB, get a slightly oc'd 6850 for quite a bit less money. 768... is like 3 years ago.... Yeah it probably will suffice in many ways, but why spend that much to not get something that works 100% with all games as it should? Just get the ATI version.

Big Question: Does the 460GTX fit an S1 Rev.2 heatsink grill? I am thinking of going nvidia this round due to superior tesselation. I know I can cool the radiator of an S1, i just have to know if it fits as-is or not.

It is sitting in my drawer as it will not fit my 5770. a good card but deficient for full eyecandy


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