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 Post subject: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:26 pm 
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http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Ho ... uild_Guide

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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:22 pm 
regarding cat5 termination

"If you terminate your own cables, with lengths cut from a big spool, be aware that some connectors are optimized for use with solid core wire while others are best for stranded core wire. Apparently. We were unable to find more than one type of connector at any local Vancouver stores, so we cannot confirm this info definitive. It is probably worth asking about if you're shopping for either cable spools or RJ45 connectors."

I was in sales in this area and this was one of the areas where I spent time to educate my clients about the differences in connectors
There are lots of different types of 8p8c connectors (cat5e) ranging from solid core, stranded cable, short plug, and more.

the main difference between solid and stranded connectors (and cables) quite important and you simply need to remember that you can use a solid core jack on anything but stranded jacks are only for stranded cables.

the main difference is in the part of the jack that gets pressed into the cable. on a stranded jack the connector is a simple straight piece of material that pierces into the cable strands to provide a good connection. On a solid jack, the connector is forked so that it can correctly go around the solid cable core.

Users can run into trouble when using stranded jacks on solid cable because the straight connector can either break the solid core or it can be deflected to either side, both resulting in a connection that may work but is unstable. This may be the interpreted as an intermittent dropped signal or a decrease from a 1000mb to 100mb connection.

to determine if you have solid or stranded jacks, inspect the metal blade/connector where it would enter the cable. if it is forked in any way then it is a solid jack and thus can be used on any cable. if it is a straight blade it may be for stranded cables only.

Generally speaking solid cable is used within a buildings walls as it is cheaper than stranded cable but can be prone to damage if kinked or moved around a lot. stranded cable is almost always used as patch cables since they are more flexible and can be moved around with out worrying about damaging the cable.

I hope this helped clear up any questions or confusion.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Really nice article. I've been considering building a mini-server to act as a mirror for select files and that build looks just like what the doctor ordered.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:17 pm 
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Even though I`m not looking to build a home server I really liked this article, tons of useful itx-related info.
I`m curious about something, there are big differences between the tested motherboards in terms of power usage. I somehow doubt that the hardware design is fully responsible for this. You mention the Zotac using a higher voltage, is this also true for the Gigabyte board? The later has some extensive voltage settings, I wonder how much of a benefit they could provide.

I was also wondering how those boards would behave along with a more powr hungry cpu, though I understand this is outside the scope of this article.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:20 pm 
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Great article Mike.

One request, though, I'd love to see some photos of the build put all together, if possible. Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Kinda interesting, but I'm really wondering how you came up with the specs. I would have thought a dual-core atom w/ 2 gigs of RAM plenty already. do you have any data on cpu usage for typical loads ? is windows that much worse than linux ?


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:07 pm 
Thanks for the great article Lawrence and Mike(?), I really love this site.

[quote="obarthelemy"]Kinda interesting, but I'm really wondering how you came up with the specs. I would have thought a dual-core atom w/ 2 gigs of RAM plenty already. do you have any data on cpu usage for typical loads ? is windows that much worse than linux ?[/quote]

Depends what you are planning on doing with it, but as a file server a dual core atom would be fine. For turning it into a general use/gaming/file server as mentioned in the article you would probably want a bit more processing power.

Linux server installs typically use far less resources than microsoft server products, although I've never used whs so I can't comment on that, but as a rule linux distros can be configured to include only what you need therefore minimizing the bloat that is included with windows.

If you are really concerned about power then atom is the way to go. A good atom motherboard for this case would be something like the ZOTAC NM10-DTX WiFi:
http://pden.zotac.com/index.php?page=sh ... uct_id=210

dtx form factor (fine for this case)
dual core d510 1.6ghz
6 x sata

Add in a single slot graphics card and a tuner card, with an install of win 7 or something like xbmc, and you could get away with using it as a htpc/file server that will run quiet and sip power.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:34 pm 
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[quote="obarthelemy"]Kinda interesting, but I'm really wondering how you came up with the specs. I would have thought a dual-core atom w/ 2 gigs of RAM plenty already. do you have any data on cpu usage for typical loads ? is windows that much worse than linux ?[/quote]
problem is more the atom. you can run the home server os perfectly well on a single core 1ghz what ever cpu. but the atoms are sometimes just unbelievable slow (and sometimes impressively speedy). problem is, the slow parts are sometimes really ordinary daily business jobs, which happen to slow down the whole network, then. so for a steady always good home server system, better don't take an atom. anything as-slow-as-possible is fast enough, but the atom sometimes annoys.

might have to do with the win2003/xp based system. maybe the next version, vail, will work better, being win2008r2/win7 based. most likely with code optimized for atoms, too.

but yeah, dualcore atom works well enough for basic home server needs. for any tiny bit more, though.. not really.


what more can you do with a home server? my preference: auto ripping of blurays, dvds, music cds. and the whole codec-hackering obviously takes quite some cpu. there, the atom would simply not have a chance.


now on the topic of silent home server. mine has a core2duo in it, 2.4ghz, and is completely passively cooled => silent except for the harddrives. pics here: http://hauptstrasse48-2.homeserver.com/ ... /Pictures/ even the home page is on the home server, hehe. new pics will follow after the rebuild of the room. a new in-drawer studio pc with a mini-itx mainboard will follow. he's allready here, waiting to get set up.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:28 am 
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ntavlas wrote:
Even though I`m not looking to build a home server I really liked this article, tons of useful itx-related info.
I`m curious about something, there are big differences between the tested motherboards in terms of power usage. I somehow doubt that the hardware design is fully responsible for this. You mention the Zotac using a higher voltage, is this also true for the Gigabyte board? The later has some extensive voltage settings, I wonder how much of a benefit they could provide.


Mobo - idle voltage, idle consumption:
DH57JG - 0.920V, 29W
H55N-USB3 - 0.960V, 39W
H55ITX-C-E (-0.10V): 0.952V, 46W
H55ITX-C-E: 1.056V, 47W

Mobo - load voltage, load consumption:
DH57JG - 1.136V, 87W
H55N-USB3 - 1.168V, 97W
H55ITX-C-E (-0.10V) - 1.216V, 99W
H55ITX-C-E - 1.320V, 112W

Voltage definitely plays a part, but just because you can undervolt a board, doesn't mean you can get it to match or beat another. Take a look at the H55ITX-C-E undervolted. Similar idle voltage as the H55N-USB3, yet it uses 7W more. Much higher load voltage (bigger difference than the DH57JG vs. H55N-USB3), but it only uses 2W more.

stuhad wrote:
If you are really concerned about power then atom is the way to go. A good atom motherboard for this case would be something like the ZOTAC NM10-DTX WiFi:
http://pden.zotac.com/index.php?page=sh ... uct_id=210

dtx form factor (fine for this case)
dual core d510 1.6ghz
6 x sata


Read the customer comments regarding the NM10's SATA ports:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500048


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:52 am 
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My name is rpsgc, and I support this idea.


Last edited by rpsgc on Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:54 am 
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Where are the photos?

Any review needs lots of photos. You have stock shots of individual components and no photos of the assembled system.

Did anybody bother to take them? Not much help without photos.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:19 am 
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[quote="mikellpp"]Where are the photos?

Any review needs lots of photos. You have stock shots of individual components and no photos of the assembled system.

Did anybody bother to take them? Not much help without photos.[/quote]

What he said. We need pictures.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:09 am 
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I'll dig out my box of 8P8Cs and my camera tomorrow and see if I can get a decent picure of the difference between solid and stranded connectors.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:45 am 
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Regarding the call for pics... I'm not sure I really agree that it's so important. The only thing you will see is the PSU, a bunch of cables and the 6 HDDs. There's really nothing else that can be seen.

But there might be a pic or two of the completed system with the side open. I don't have access to the orig photo folder. Maybe Larry does.

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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:17 am 
[quote="MikeC"]Regarding the call for pics... I'm not sure I really agree that it's so important. The only thing you will see is the PSU, a bunch of cables and the 6 HDDs. There's really nothing else that can be seen.
But there might be a pic or two of the completed system with the side open. I don't have access to the orig photo folder. Maybe Larry does.[/quote]

I agree.... if you want pictures, check the review of the lianli case, not the home server build guide. Something a little more in-depth would be nice from the server setup point of view. Feedback about hdd performance once multiple clients are accessing the server would be interesting too.

I can't remember if you mentioned raid setup in the guide.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:25 am 
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For future guides, just take a few pictures of the finished rig, similar to what you already do with the complete systems reviews.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:20 am 
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spinkman wrote:
Feedback about hdd performance once multiple clients are accessing the server would be interesting too.... I can't remember if you mentioned raid setup in the guide.

Funny, I just added a bit more on this page, including multiple streaming etc -- http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Ho ... st_Results

There is no raid in WHS. Check out the info on WHS Drive Extender. Quick summary here -- http://www.silentpcreview.com/Silent_Ho ... troduction -- covered extensively on many WHS sites.

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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:10 pm 
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This was a great article and an even better idea as an article/test category...

I am excited to see this...

Would love to see the same kind of article with more mainstream (like standard ATX mainboards and cases) components, i.e. a home server pc, which may also be the standard pc for a user...well, I'm talking about my "predicament"

A configuration like 890GX ATX board, 4 core CPU, 8 hdds and a bigger case is what I'd like to see...

With the Fractal-Design Define XL case also coming soon (which I hope I will see being tested here) this would be mighty interesting...


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:01 pm 
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Good article. I've built a couple WHS boxes & installed an HP EX495, and I am a fan of the system.

The price comparison with HP's servers is a little unfair, because it omits the cost of the WHS software. HP's boxes include that extra $100 from the factory, so you get a lot of value in the $400ish models. I'll also add that HPs can be extended with USB/eSATA external storage, though that's clearly a less elegant solution.

Finally, anyone who insists that such servers need RAID5/6 needs to read about how Drive Extender duplicates data before posting again.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:38 pm 
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I have a quick comment on the backup addendum to the article.

I'm not sure NAS devices or even external hdds are true back-up solutions especially is they're going to be always-on devices. As long as hard drives are turned on, there's always going to be a risk of failures and data loss. Of course, any type of redundancy is always a positive, and hard drive solutions are probably the most practical solution for data redundancy. However, tape based back-ups deserves a mention at least as they do represent the most robust back up solution readily available.

I realize tape backups can be expensive, but I've found it can be surprisingly cheap by going used equipment route. I've spent a bit over $300 on LTO2 132t and LTO2 tapes, and it gives me 4.6TB online backup capability. I think that's pretty cost effective actually. If you only have a terabyte of data to back up regularly, you can get LTO1 library for less than $100 nowadays. Even LTO3 libraries can be had for $4-500.

It certainly isn't a solution for everybody as tape library definitely has its drawbacks. It's certainly slow. It does take me a full day to do a full backup, and the library is certainly a noise maker. But these are sacrifices I can afford to make. If you can deal with the slow speed and the noise, I think tape libraries make the most sense as a backup solution still.

Oh and quick comment on ECC. I think it's a route worth taking even with extra effort especially since there's no real extra cost with AMD setup. I can vouch that data rot does happen fairly regularly. It's not really apparent with media files, but I noticed a sizable amount of corruption when I used to store most of my data in archival formats in 90's. Better safe than sorry, I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:01 pm 
I should ask the WHS guys and lopgok the question:

What happens when your raid controller/P3 mobo/HP Media server/etc dies? what are your options then?

- Can another hp media server rebuild or another WHS device rebuild a drive extender array?
- Can another motherboard or raid card rebuild a Raid5 array?
- Is a Drobo the only real solution here? (JK! no flames please)


Every poster has a good point and not all backup solutions are suitable for every solution. I tend to agree with what lopgok is saying for the most part if you have the time to learn about what you're doing and can implement and manage a file server, but this is not for everyone. WHS and the NAS boxes are a solution for those that want a no nonsense solution for backup but they can lack expandability, customization, and full peace of mind that some require.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you're ready to get serious about your data then you should really put in some effort to really understand what is going on, what you're willing to do and how much your data is worth to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:44 pm 
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I'd like to know if there is a major difference between the AV-GP drives and regular old Caviar Green Power drives? A quick look around shows that, at least in Australia, AV-GP drives sell for ~50-70% more than normal WD Green drives. Is it just head parking?


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:30 pm 
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I want to upgrade my NAS (Synology DS409+ with 4x 2TB drives) because I need more capacity and this article has made me think of building my own WHS server.
One question though, my current NAS runs in RAID5 mode and with 4x 2TB drives I have about 6TB capacity and protection from a single drive failure.

If I want to have the same single drive failure protection and the same total storage capacity with a WHS server, by using Shared Folder Duplication, would I need 6x 2TB drives? If that is the case I might just as well buy a 6-drive or 7-drive NAS again because the the price advantage of the WHS server would be negated by the extra drives needed. To get more than my current 6TB capacity I would need a WHS with at least 10 drives.

Or is it perhaps possible to run RAID5 on a WHS server to make better use of the drive capacity?


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:24 am 
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Sorry, duplicate post, and no way to delete the post...


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:58 am 
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Nice article. I like the concept of going from selecting components to acutally building and commissioniong the system.

Over the weekend I have built a WHS myself, a very similar system. It's in a Lian Li PC-Q08 as well, HDDs are 2x Samsung F4 1TB, 1x Samsung F2 500 GB and an older Samsung 400 GB 7200 rpm model (one that was recommended by spcr at that time).

Other components are a Gigabyte H55N USB3 (I had to return two Zotac boards because they were broken, so I got tired of Zotac and got the Gigabyte instead), an i3-530 and Seasonic SS12-380.

I use a Samurai ZZ as well, and I removed the fan. The PSU sucks air from the Samurai. (Not sure in your build whether the PSU fan is facing the board or the gill on the sideof the case.)

My observation so far is that the drive noise seems to be lower than what you have experienced, the loudest part in my built is the 12cm case fan. It's slowed down with a Fan Mate. Apart from that I can hear HDD seeks, but that's it. I put the 7200 rpm drive at the top position in the drive cage, and the other ones below it. I suspect that this helps to dampen propagation of the vibrations coming from the 7200 rpm drive. The other drives are vibrating very little anyway.

Total power consumption is approx 55 - 60 Watts.

Next I need to get a SATA card to have more ports for connecting the DVD drive and future addtional HDDs.

Will post some pictures in the general forum in a couple of days.

Cheers

jayrock


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:19 am 
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spinkman asked, "What happens when your raid controller/P3 mobo/HP Media server/etc dies? what are your options then?

"- Can another hp media server rebuild or another WHS device rebuild a drive extender array?"

Each HD in a WHS uses a standard NTFS format & has similar folder structure. The server will combine all of, e.g., the Pictures folders into a common share, so the remote user cannot see the underlying split. If the system drive crashes, the WHS installer can detect and index the data. You can also pull a good data drive, attach it to any PC that reads NTFS & access the files. Crashed drives are another matter, of course.

It's also possible to run RAID1 on the system drive, though that's not a supported configuration.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:41 am 
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With modern single drive speeds and capacities, raid has diminished importance in a home environment. A single drive can saturate gigabit ethernet. Raid still has its place in enterprise settings where I/O demands are higher and uptime is required. But your average home simply doesn't require this.

As is well known, raid is for UPTIME. It is not a backup solution, which is what home users (and even many small businesses) really need.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:05 am 
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[quote="Jay_S"]As is well known, raid is for UPTIME. It is not a backup solution, which is what home users (and even many small businesses) really need.[/quote]
+1. I personally use unRAID for my media server. Drives are in JBOD configuration with each drive having its own file system with the drives in the array protected by a parity disk. If you lose one drive, you can still rebuild the failed drive. If you lose two or more, then you only lose data stored in those drives. With RAID5, if you lose two or more drives, you've essentially lost your whole array.

Critical data (documents, family pictures, etc) are duplicated across all computers via Dropbox. Thankfully, we don't really take a lot of pictures or videos so they still fit well within the max Dropbox limit.


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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:45 am 
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lopgok wrote:
As for raid-5, I use it to deal with a single failing hard drive. I am sure everyone has experienced that, or knows someone who has had a failed hard drive.

As mentioned by many others, RAID of any kind is no substitute for backups. Systematic frequent backups work as well for a failed drive, and provide more security overall by being separate from the source data. My guess is that in business servers, HDD failure occurs more frequently than in any home server, because the loads are way higher, 24/7. With a home server, 24/7 operation is much less common, as sleep mode works well with most hardware these days (finally). In the SPCR labs, in ~9 years, we have had 0 -- zero -- HDD failures in PCs that run mostly 24/7. We have seen a few dead HDDs, most often occurring within weeks of first receiving samples, but these invariably are never installed in a system and tend to get physical abuse from being bare naked kicking about the lab.

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 Post subject: Re: Silent Home Server Build Guide
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:57 am 
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Pierre:
>About the EVDS WD drives, I don't believe this is a good choice...in fact a bad one...
>
>I read an article - can't find the link at the moment - explaining that these drives have their error correction functionality limited to prevent video record operations from missing frames...i.e. if an error is not corrected within X time, the drive will skip error correction for that piece of data and move on...
>
>For video recording devices and for video files only, that may be a good choice...for a file server or backup solution and a raid configuration that's a "stay the hell away" option if the above case is correct.

From what you've said, that actually makes these drives a good choice - at least for hardware RAID. Disabled TLER is the reason why people have complained about Western Digital consumer drives dropping from RAID arrays in the first place. If an error is not corrected within a certain timeframe, you want the RAID controller to decide what to do.


Last edited by ilovejedd on Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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