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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:02 am 
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Location: tromsø in norway
KayDat wrote:
leifeinar wrote:
seems that the card has a strange bios thats messing with the clocks goes up and down during idle

Image


What were you doing at the time? Looks pretty normal to me. Anything that has GPU acceleration would clock the card up one preset power level. I have a 5870 and it happens all the time. For example, flash videos in the browser.



this is really strange, the card @idle is supposed to be at 100mhz desktop mode. here its not even close. but my 2 pics is taken on different computers, one XP and one WIN 7. it seems that at XP the cards powerplay aint behaving at all :)

this is how its supposed to be, and its in win 7. might be a driver thing? now irunning XP card aint SPCR standard...

http://bildr.no/view/753045


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:31 am 
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leifeinar wrote:
this is really strange, the card @idle is supposed to be at 100mhz desktop mode. here its not even close. but my 2 pics is taken on different computers, one XP and one WIN 7. it seems that at XP the cards powerplay aint behaving at all :)

this is how its supposed to be, and its in win 7. might be a driver thing? now irunning XP card aint SPCR standard...http://bildr.no/view/753045


Are you runing with multiple monitors? That will change the default behavior to a higher clock freq - ATI insists they need it for the VRAM.

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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Hi Tima,

Just curious...which GTX 460 did you try that you thought was too loud? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:34 pm 
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crypt0r wrote:
Hi Tima,

Just curious...which GTX 460 did you try that you thought was too loud? Thanks!


I went into some detail on this in the GTX460 thread, but here's a summary. I RMA'd my first EVGA 768GB (reference design) due to a whiny fan and the DVD glitching, and got a louder, faster fan and the same DVD glitching in return. Even after applying the official BIOS update, the replacement card is still audible in my system at the new minimum 30% fan speed. I suspect the first one would have been inaudible at 30%, but its fan whined at various speeds. I had to use EVGA Precision to bump its speed from (the then minimum) 40% to 41% to eliminate the whine, where the fan was still audible at around 1600 RPM but fairly innocuous. I also briefly had an MSI Cyclone 768GB model, which was supposed to be super-duper quiet. Its fan was horrible at every speed, and it idled at > 50%, which was close to 2000 RPM IIRC. Once I got into Windows, I could use Afterburner to decrease the MSI to its 40% minimum, where it was still horrible.

Again, this is all relative to my Acoustipack'd P182, which contains three WD Green drives, two 120 mm case fans (upper and lower chamber at 650 and 500 RPM), and a 120 mm CPU fan (running around 700 RPM). My PSU is Seasonic X650, and its fan usually doesn't run. The fans don't ramp up under normal desktop or HTPC use. This baseline is not silent but is pretty quiet. For example, besides video card fans messing up the noise signature, replacing a 1 TB WD Green drive with a new 3-platter 2 GB one was a problem, and I have a thread here on that as well. Thankfully WD replaced the 3-platter drive with a 4-platter refurb, which doesn't add any objectionable noise and has been reliable so far. In the other thread, people said the noise I described for the 3-platter version isn't typical, so it could just be a sample variation. However, I think it's important to note that a 3-platter drive isn't necessarily quieter than a 4-platter drive. In fact, my 4-platter WD Green drives (I have the original WD10EACS as well as the new WD20EARS) are no louder than the three WD10EA(D|R)S drives I've had over the last couple of years, one of which I had replaced because it made an idle noise similar to the 3-platter WD20EARS. I actually prefer 4-platter WD Green drives, as 2/2 have been quiet, while only 2/4 3-platter ones have been quiet.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA, US
I have several WD EADS in server, I know what they sound like, some used to be in my HTPC. I could not tolerate them in living room. There is no way Sapphire 6850 would be louder at idle than any 3.5" 5400 RPM drive.
It would be noticeable, yes, but not louder. Tima, you probably got a bad sample. Not sure what was going on with your other cards like 460.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:34 pm 
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micksh wrote:
I have several WD EADS in server, I know what they sound like, some used to be in my HTPC. I could not tolerate them in living room. There is no way Sapphire 6850 would be louder at idle than any 3.5" 5400 RPM drive.
It would be noticeable, yes, but not louder. Tima, you probably got a bad sample.


Well, that makes 3/3 on the Nvidia cards and 1/1 on the ATI card. Pretty bad luck. As for your claims about the relative noise levels and what I hear... These video card fans penetrate the base noise level of my system as I described, and it's a relief to go back to my fanless 9600GT. I suspect your case is not as quiet, the damping is not as good, your ambient noise levels are higher, your hearing is not as sensitive, etc. I will say this. I'm amazed at the difference in noise level, both idle and seek, for a WD Green drive in an external enclosure sitting on a bookshelf vs my P182 on the floor. It's hard to believe they're the same drive. The PC is to the right of my desk, about 3-4 feet from my ears, and the bookshelf about 5 feet away. I know the bookshelf amplifies things, but still!

Quote:
Not sure what was going on with your other cards like 460.


I'm glad you at least recognize that. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Location: Slovakia
I don't know exact specs of your system but I find it hard to believe that the 6850 card at idle could have "penetrate base noise level of system" - unless it was indeed a faulty card or you have in some way much more sensitive hearing than me. I've got pair of 10EADS and soft mounted into p182 they were definitely penetrating base noise of the system (that is after I swpaped PSU for X-750). So I swapped them for single 2TB Samsung F4 which is much quieter at idle but probably still louder than the VGA.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:11 pm 
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appletree wrote:
I don't know exact specs of your system but I find it hard to believe that the 6850 card at idle could have "penetrate base noise level of system" - unless it was indeed a faulty card or you have in some way much more sensitive hearing than me. I've got pair of 10EADS and soft mounted into p182 they were definitely penetrating base noise of the system (that is after I swpaped PSU for X-750). So I swapped them for single 2TB Samsung F4 which is much quieter at idle but probably still louder than the VGA.


I never said the hard drives don't contribute to the base noise level of the system. In fact, the reason I described my system in such detail was to document the pieces contributing to the base noise level. However, if you guys think properly installed WD Green drives are particularly loud, then we do have a disconnect, because the base noise level of my system is very, very low with three of them installed (but see earlier messages here and thread in the storage forum where I documented how I got there). Seeks are all but inaudible. Everything blends. The noise floor is easily penetrated by these small video card fans that run at relatively high RPMs and are whiny and/or "rough" in character. Believe me, I'd like to game at 1080p, which is why I tried these cards after two years of not gaming, but I like the quietness of my fanless 9600GT more for desktop/HTPC use, and I'll be content to stick with 720p for gaming, which I've recently discovered ain't that terrible. The 9600GT is no slouch at that resolution, even for games like Crysis, which is a pleasant surprise. Nothing more to add.

Oh yeah, one more thing. If you use Media Center and are affected by the 29/59 Hz bug, I've never seen a card worse for it than the HD6850. There's no workaround I can find, not even the traditional one of turning off dynamic contrast. It's completely unacceptable, and it would be even to someone who thinks it's quiet, as I guess they'd have to object to flicker and massive judder. :lol: ATI has actually gone horribly backwards WRT this bug compared to the 4670, which I had for over a year (again a fanless version) due to the PC/HDTV Timing Bug, which affected Sony TVs. ATI had a workaround for that, while Nvidia didn't for over a year, so I had to use ATI during that time and put my fanless 9600GT on a shelf. It was when I heard Nvidia introduced a workaround circa their 258 series drivers that I decided to look at video cards again, and I was suckered in by the endless cookie-cutter reviews on the web heralding how quiet the new cards are, leading me to believe I could have a silent desktop/HTPC card that was still excellent for higher-end gaming. Well, they're not quiet enough in my environment, and for Media Center, my 9600GT and 4670 don't have the problems the new cards have.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:29 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA, US
tima wrote:
If you use Media Center and are affected by the 29/59 Hz bug, I've never seen a card worse for it than the HD6850.

Is it the bug that is only applicable to 1080i TV recordings in Media Center and only shows up on a few TV models?
I haven't seen it. ReClock doesn't help?
I guess automatic re-encoding in background to 720p with DVRMSToolbox to save space and cut commercials would also fix it.

I have Samsung F2 HD502HI HDD that is measured 12 dBA and it's suspended with stretch magic in enclosure and Sapphire 6850 is surely quieter at idle. I still think you had bad sample. And other your active cooled cards including 460 were probably not supposed to be quiet from the beginning.
Edit: Or, maybe you are just more sensitive to VGA fan noise than to HDD noise.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:47 pm 
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Location: Atlantic Ocean
micksh wrote:
...and Sapphire 6850 is surely quieter at idle.

What do you mean by idle, here? I presume you don't mean that the card is idle because then of course it would be dead silent.
But if the computer is idle then the card fans could still be spinning at 75% - all depending on the config (hardware and software). My Gigabyte 6850 is spinning at that speed out of the box and I need drivers/Afterburner to lower the fan speed and get anywhere close to quietness. Or is the Sapphire 6850 supposed to regulate fan speed by itself according to temps?

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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:51 pm 
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micksh wrote:
Is it the bug that is only applicable to 1080i TV recordings in Media Center and only shows up on a few TV models?


The 29/59 Hz bug depends on the broadcast, not the TV, though the TV influences the manifestation of the bug if it's subject to the PC/HDTV timing bug, which is a completely different bug. Follow-ups set to thegreenbutton.com.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:03 am 
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Location: San Jose, CA, US
guermantes wrote:
micksh wrote:
...and Sapphire 6850 is surely quieter at idle.

What do you mean by idle, here? I presume you don't mean that the card is idle because then of course it would be dead silent.
But if the computer is idle then the card fans could still be spinning at 75% - all depending on the config (hardware and software). My Gigabyte 6850 is spinning at that speed out of the box and I need drivers/Afterburner to lower the fan speed and get anywhere close to quietness. Or is the Sapphire 6850 supposed to regulate fan speed by itself according to temps?

By idle I mean Windows is in 2D mode and card is not doing anything but showing desktop. Aero, browsing without flash, etc. In this case my fan speed was at ~25% without any 3rd party software like Afterburner. With or without drivers - doesn't matter.
Yes, 6850 regulates fan speed based on temperature like all decent cards.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:01 pm 
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micksh wrote:
Yes, 6850 regulates fan speed based on temperature like all decent cards.


Hmm, I certainly do not get that impression from my 6850. It was spinning at 76% all of the time as soon as soon as windows boot and GPU temp below 50 degrees and I can leave it sitting without aero in 2D desktop and it wills till be spinning like crazy 1 hour later. Resulting in that Jet engine sound I described earlier.

At what temps does your card start to spin up so that you can clearly hear the fan noise?

I could still clearly hear mine at 50% as it was approaching but not close enough to "comfortable quietness"

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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:16 pm 
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Indeed, the Gigabyte 6850 has an incorrect default fan profile. I just have to wonder about the QA on this thing. I use Trixx, and the problem is solved. For me personally and my current setup, I try my best to not exceed 45% fan speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Location: San Jose, CA, US
guermantes wrote:
micksh wrote:
Yes, 6850 regulates fan speed based on temperature like all decent cards.

Hmm, I certainly do not get that impression from my 6850. It was spinning at 76% all of the time as soon as soon as windows boot...
At what temps does your card start to spin up so that you can clearly hear the fan noise?

I described fan behaviour here, on the first page
viewtopic.php?p=525331#p525331

I don't know anything about Gigabyte 6850. But I see people are talking about different cards here.

Scoop wrote:
Just got my Sapphire 6850 1GB today and man was happily surprised there was a 1.8m HDMI-cable included.

My regular Sapphire 6850 does not include HDMI cable. I know Sapphire 6850 TOXIC does include HDMI cable but it's a different card. It can be louder as it's targeted to overclockers, I think.

Just to be sure that we are talking about the same card. The card in original post that linked to HT4U review http://ht4u.net/reviews/2010/amd_radeon ... ndex17.php has part number SAPPHIRE 100315L. BTW, they later measured retail card to be even quieter because initially they (as many others) had review sample with 1120 shaders. http://ht4u.net/reviews/2010/sapphire_r ... 6850_test/

The following card is supposed to be quiet, don't know about TOXIC or Gigabyte
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102908


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Location: Poland
Scoop wrote:
... damn thing doesn't detect my HDTV while it's connect via a DVI-VGA cable ...


Try disconnecting the cable from the TV HDTV socket and/or PC DVI socket. I had a similar issue with my TV and 2 mobos (one with DVI, one with HDTV output) and I had all sorts of trouble - the PC couldn't always find the TV automatically, sometimes the resolution was messed etc. I just realized connecting/reconnecting/playing with the cable helps. Well, now my issues are actually over, and the worst thing is I don't even know what I did right. But all is fine.

Regarding the HD6850 - a sweet card it is, aye. Would appreciate any info on the GB Windforce version - namely, can it adjust RPM of the dual fans, how (well) does it work with Afterburner etc. In general - is it worthy of recommending for a very quiet PC?


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:45 pm 
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kater wrote:
Regarding the HD6850 - a sweet card it is, aye. Would appreciate any info on the GB Windforce version - namely, can it adjust RPM of the dual fans, how (well) does it work with Afterburner etc. In general - is it worthy of recommending for a very quiet PC?


Well, see above regarding what looks like a faulty fan profile that crypt0r talks about.

As regards controlling RPM with Afterburner it works very well (after preventing Catalyst Control Center to run at startup). It loads without delay every time I boot Windows7 and turns down the fan to zero and make it stay there all day unless the temp goes above 50% when my fan profile kicks in. Like this it hovers around 48 degrees celsius in Windows mode. Gaming FPS or Driving games it never goes above 68 degrees.

EDIT: At 30% fan speed I have a hard time deciding wither I can here the fans or not. But that might be due to an unresolved problem with a HDD. However as is visible in that thread, during troubleshooting, I moved most of the HDD noise out of the case and I could not here the Windforce fans any more when the HDD noise was muffled by the T-shirt.

EDIT2: Actually, I realized that Afterburner does not seem to pull the fans down to zero at all. I appears that way if you set the fan profile to zero, and there is a zero in the fan speed box and on the graph, but the slider does not go below 25% and yesterday when I looked at the card when it was supposedly at zero it was still spinning. So I guess it was spinning at 25%. I can't open the case and test tings now, but to me even at 30% it is a very quiet and efficient card, if by efficient you mean that it stays under 50 degrees celsius in 2D.

EDIT3: I opened the case and there is an ever so slight difference going from fan speed at zero% in Afterburner (fans yet spinning though) to spinning at 25%. I can't make out whether it disturbs me or not because after 30 seconds I tend not to hear it anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:04 pm 
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As a measurement, ive got 2 fans in my system now. the Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 and, a 12cm noctua @ 636rpm in the psu. with my ear in the case, the noctua makes more sound than the hd6850. both have been stopped with my finger :)

And SSD, so no disk noice :)


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:16 pm 
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Location: East
My primary concern with video card noise has always been the noise at idle. I spend 95% of my time using my PC for mundane desktop tasks. And, if it's quiet at idle, it will likely be quiet enough to be drowned out by sound while gaming. I join fellow members lauding the quietness of the Sapphire Radeon 6850 - with one caveat.

This is the first video card I have ever purchased for my primary PC that I did not feel compelled to immediately modify in order to silence. From the 9700 Pro I modified with a 1U heatsink, to an x850xt, to 2 x 8800gts 512mb in SLI (2 x Accelero S1), to the most recent MSI gtx260 Twin Frozr (for sale) (2 x 100mm speed controlled fans), I have never been satisfied with the stock cooling solution due to the noise character....at idle (the caveat)....until now.

Using software (Sapphire Trixx or MSI Afterburner), the fan speed can be lowered to a point where it should be inaudible in most any quiet case (I have an Antec P182; the front is 10 inches away facing me). From quietest to loudest, here is how it ranks versus the other 3 fans in the case:
(1) Scythe Slipstream (120mm, medium rpm version) - free standing in the front middle chamber and is rotating at around 600rpm. This fan is essentially silent.
(2) Sapphire 6850 at idle - fan speed at its lowest (although the software can indicate "0" the fan rotates at 1000rpm at its lowest). Very quiet. Unfortunately, as mentioned by another poster, it does have a slight clicking sound that can be heard from a foot or so away. However, it cannot be heard with the case closed (despite the fact I have 2 rear PCI brackets that are not covered).
(3) Scythe Flex (120mm, low rpm version) - it is connected to the cpu heatsink and rotates around 600rpm. Due to its connection, it makes a very low vibration hum that can be heard from a few inches away. The Sapphire and the Flex have the polar opposite noise characteristics but are about equally loud.
(4) Zalman ZM-850HP power supply. The 1000w model was reviewed favorably by SPCR as part of a silent build review. Its heat pipe heatsink, 140mm fan and larger than normal case contribute to its ability to output significant loads while remaining extremely quiet. I tried 2-3 other "quiet" PSU's before finding the Zalman. In all but the quietest builds, it operates unnoticed. That being said, the air flow noise from the PSU is now the noise floor of my PC. To remove the PSU from the noise floor, I would likely have to upgrade to a unit with a fan that does not spin at lower power draw (x650, x750, etc).

HDD noise is not an issue as I use SSD's. I have yet to find a truly quiet 3.5" HDD....have tried them all and none of them are near quiet even when hanging via elastic string at the bottom of the P182 that sits in a cabinet with a closed front (but open back. IMO, you can't have a truly quiet PC (let alone silent) using mechanical drives.

Caveat
Above idle, the Sapphire is not quiet. If you have a quiet PC, the Sapphire 6850 will become the noise floor once you begin gaming. Hopefully the audio will drown it out. If it does not, the Sapphire will join the rest of the video cards I've owned and will be modified with larger fans.

Speaking of which, has anyone taken off the cover off of the Sapphire to determine exactly how large the heatsink is? I'm hoping it's wide enough to support 2 x 100m fans (or smaller if necessary). This would allow for an easy but efficient dual fan mod - 1 fan always operates at low rpm while the other fan runs only when triggered by a certain temp. For, e.g., the above-mentioned gtx260:

Image

Back
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Location: East
Has anyone removed the fan assembly/heatsink cover and taken pics? Or simply replaced the single fan with two larger fans?

Considering how well the Accelero S2 performs on the 6850, I'm inclined to think that the Sapphire cooler with a larger fan (or 2) is likely to yield additional benefits over the single stock fan. It appears you might be able to fit 2 x 92mm fans (if not, certainly 2 x 80mm fans). It would also enhance cooling the VRM (see 2nd pic). The only pics of the Sapphire sans cover aren't very good to determine relative size:

Image

VRM cooling
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sapphire Radeon HD 6850 very silent and not even vapor-x
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:01 am 
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Location: Finland
Just updated my Sapphire Ultimate HD 4670 to Sapphire HD 6850. Wow, what a card!

I have AMD 4850e with Gigabyte 780g mainboard and it's now the weakest link in my htpc.

But with 4670 the idle power usage was 63W and with 6850 it's 62W! Amazing.

Max power usage with 3dmark06 was 186W but as said 4860e&780g slowed down the whole system and I could only get about 9500marks while the best i7-2600&6850-system got 35000marks. The last test was 40fps in my system and 130fps in i7-2600 system. Have to start looking for efficient but low power mainboard for i7-2600.


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