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 Post subject: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:02 pm 
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Hi guys, long time lurker on SCPR and finally coming around to really quietening my PC, so here I am.

I conducted a fair amount of research on SCPR when I built my first ever rig a few years back. I grabbed a P182 with a Q6600, Scythe Ninja, Asus P5K-E Wifi, 8800GT, Corsair HX520 and Samsung F1 because they seemed to be the best bang for my buck really and had good SCPR reviews. I was surprised to find the P182 much louder than I'd expected but I came to live with it. Recently the fan on my GPU seems to be giving up the ghost or rather having to work overtime because of dust (despite my cleaning) and has become unbearable, so I'm keen to revamp the whole rig.

Not sure quite what the issue is but my Scythe fan has not been spinning on start up (it does spin if given a nudge though), so I've basically been running the machine passively for a while now without any noticeable repercussions. I've read the Ninja is capable of doing this and temps seem to be within a safe range so I'm not too worried. My plan at the moment is to pick up some Nexus Real Silents, add an Accelero S1 to my 8800GT and install some Acoustipack damping foam too. I'll probably suspend my HDD as well although it isn't so much a cause of sound. Does this all sound ok? Should I just experiment with fan configurations or do people have any that they recommend in particular? I'd grab Noctuas but I don't believe they will be worth the extra cost over the Real Silents. Am I mistaken in this notion? Should I also grab a fan controller whilst I'm at it or is that ancillary?

The top fan is definitely a cause of sound so I'll take it out or, at the very least, add AP to the exhaust hood. I like in a rather dusty place, so are any of the other mods worth it? I'm considering cutting the front fan grills and the back exhaust grill but figured I would get an opinion here first. Are there any other mods I should consider? I'm keen to get my plan of action sorted before I buy stuff as I'd rather not waste cash on ordering stuff at multiple times and paying for postage. That's what I've got so far guys. I'd appreciate any thoughts on my proposed plans and recommendations on anything else I could do. Thanks in advance.



PS - It should be noted that I really very rarely game on this machine so underclocking etc. is an option. I do work in Photoshop and have started encoding my DVDs lately though so should I consider it?


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:49 pm 
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Your questions remind me mostly those of three years ago: have you learnt/experimented anything in the between on those arguments?

Well, my humble guessworks. I think that:

  • more probably that not, you're currently running all the original stock TriCools (using the top one too);
  • more probably that not your Ninja fan and Corsair fan are somehow torn or next to;
  • more probably that not you don't use any form of fan control;
  • your 8800GT should be annoying also: a reference one has a typical noise range between 16 to 27dB when brand new (and now your one may be even louder).

You should address all this points: IMHO you may try either a massive fans-coolers swap, or a more expensive parts replacement (and fans swap). Forget the Acoustipack: it's really totally useless on a P182 IMO.

About the fans, providing that you have some on CPU and GPU coolers, of the three stock fans you need just the rear exhaust one.

I would advice to somehow forget the Nexus or the Noctua (each for different reasons): instead go for some Scythe Kama Flow 2 or Enermax Magma, which are IMHO a better trade off with reference to life expectancy and value; use them to swap those of the PSU, the P182 and the Accelero (if in case). Alternatively you may go for the classic Scythe Sliptream, fairly cheap but - thinking mostly to the PSU and the Accelero - not an everlasting one (as the Nexus, but maybe more consistent than current Nexus batches).
You have also to replace the Ninja's one: another Scythe may be the easy choice, like the Slipstream PWM seen on Mugen or Kabuto.
A Scythe Kama PWM have to last more, but I dunno if you can mount it, as it has closed corners: if in case, the Enermax Cluster should have open ones. Even an exotic Alpenfohn Wing Boost would be a very good option: but I don't think it's easily available.
Last but not least, if you shouldn't have bought it, I would remember to you that a Thermalright LGA775 Thru-Bolt-Kit may help your Ninja at cooling (almost) more than a new working fan.

Then you have to connect them: if your motherboard has enough headers, you might have to install SpeedFan to control them.
If it has not, then you need an external controller like a Scythe Kaze Server or a more refined mCubed T-Balancer (which you can use also with SpeedFan as interface, IIRC).

Last but not least your 8800GT eventually comes: it's (roughly) a 100-watter, and not such an efficient one, so it's maybe just over the upper limit to use an Accelero passively with ever-safe temps.
As mentioned above, you should need of a fan capable to run horizontally, so I think about the Kama Flow, or a couple of SFF92: but I don't know which fan connector has your 8800GT, you are likely to have to drive them externally.
But as you have still not the Accelero, I would advice instead for an upgrade: something like a Sapphire HD-5670 Ultimate would be a more straightforward solution than buy an AC Accelero S1R2, buy a couple of FDB fans, buy a good thermal paste for GPUs, install them over your three years old card without breaking anything, and then struggle to control its "brand new noise" automagically... Obviously it would cost a fair bit more, but it should come with a noticeable performance bonus.

Well, I think that's all, or so about, thanks for your attention and forget any possible carelessnesses of me.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:45 pm 
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As far as case fans go I think getting nexus fans to swap the tri cool is a good idea.
Block the top and add an intake fan to help with noise and dust.

I agree with Luca on the video card. Get a new one that is passive or quiet out of the box. Cooling 8800 was never an easy task. A new card will also performs better, draw less power, and generate less heat.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:56 am 
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First off, thanks guys.

Guess I forgot to mention a few things. Yup already have the TR bolt-thru kit on my Ninja and I'm running the top and rear tricools on low (took out others). The Slipstream and Tricools are too loud for my liking. I think when I get new fans, I'll put one in the front and rear and block up the top exhaust. I haven't really found the PSU fan to be an issue - I can't hear it over the Tricools. Would it really benefit from a fan replacement? I'm a bit afraid of messing about with the PSU to be honest.

I hear your point on the 8800gt. I'm not into PC gaming much really any more, so I'm not sure I need something like the 5670 Ultimate. I just need something for PS, DVD encoding with dual digital outputs. I'll do some research but does anyone have any recommendations off the top of their head?

Btw Luca, I'm not sure what you meant by this:
Quote:
more probably that not your Ninja fan and Corsair fan are somehow torn or next to


Anyway thanks again guys.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:00 am 
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+1 for the new video card if you can afford it.
You'll need to slow down the new fans as well to keep them nice and quiet.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:16 am 
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If it's just PS and DVD with no gaming then just drop a passive gt210 or similar. These should cost ~$30. They don't get hot as they are typically 40nm. Find one that has both DVI and HDMI and your set (with HDMI to DVI cable/adapter). I have Asus gt210 that is just that and it works perfectly for these kind of tasks.

With 3D gaming you'll want a bit more, starting with Nvidia gts450 or ATI 5750. These should be around $120+ depending on make and model. The sky is the limit here... ;)


5650/70 or gt430 are ok but sluggish on any decent res - not worth it IMHO.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:45 am 
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Thanks guys. Doing a quick bit of research, I think I can get away with a 5450 or something in that vein. I really don't game bar some silly flash games so should be good to go. They're around the price of an Accelero anyway so seems definitely seems silly to drop the cash on one. I have considered the 5670 but I've heard it runs hot and as much as I might 'futureproof' with it, by the time standards become too high for a 5450, there will be better and cheaper cards out I can get.

Ok so graphics card is pretty much sorted. Solution - new card

Fans - new fans
What about some Slip Stream 500s? Too little airflow?

I understand that quiet is a subjective thing but I'd really like to get this machine as quiet as possible without breaking the bank. I get that you have to pay for better quality stuff but paying double or more for Noctuas to get a very minute improvement over Nexus or Scythes would annoy me.

Is the consensus that acoustipack is not worth it? I think I'd like to order stuff this weekend so I don't agonise over the whole thing and then just end up not doing anything!

If this forum had rep, I'd totally rep you guys. Thanks a bunch. And to think I was just going to order the Accelero etc without asking!


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:08 am 
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This forum is the best in the world IMO.

Ok maybe in the top 5...

Good choice of vid card. I'd say slipstream 800s should be quiet enough without sacrificing cooling. With your setup you might even get away with 500s , but I personally rather undervolt an 800 than be stuck with a 500 that's too slow. Your mobo should be able to slow the ss800 to about 550 rpm

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 7:47 am 
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The Judge wrote:
The Slipstream and Tricools are too loud for my liking.

Any fan but some very slow ones (such as the 500rpm ones) does need to be dialed down to be quiet, while those very slow ones may be unable to properly cool a system in any season.
The TriCools can't be dialed down, and they are actually loud at any of their speeds.
If the Scythe fan are actually not dialed down, it's likely to be loud, but as you also says it doesn't start reliably, I guess it's also no more fully functional.

If your motherboard or you aren't able to use SpeedFan to dial down the (new) fans, then you'll need a rheobus (already mentioned) to do the work: you may do some experiment about using the current Scythe fan, connecting it to the various mobo's fan headers.
Some lazy people would rather go simpler, and to use some adapter to run at low (5V, 7V, et c.) fixed feed, but personally I don't think that way, IMO fans control cannot be simply dropped.

The Judge wrote:
I haven't really found the PSU fan to be an issue - I can't hear it over the Tricools. Would it really benefit from a fan replacement? I'm a bit afraid of messing about with the PSU to be honest.

As a general impression of mine, I was thinking it should need a fan swap.
Generally speaking, at around 20dB I guess it cannot be said quiet, IMO: however, whether or not it deserve a fan swap you will see by yourself after dialing down the other fans.

The Judge wrote:
I'll do some research but does anyone have any recommendations off the top of their head?

If you don't need anymore the same performance level of your current 8800 GT, then any decent Radeon HD-5450 will work fine.

The Judge wrote:
Btw Luca, I'm not sure what you meant by this:
Quote:
more probably that not your Ninja fan and Corsair fan are somehow torn or next to

Just a typo: read "worn" instead of "torn" (also english is not my language :wink: ).

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:51 am 
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Cool. Thanks again guys. Just realised I have a passively cooled 8600GT lying around somewhere that I got for cheap when my system failed and I had to figure out what the issue was. Will probably throw that in for a while and see how it performs.

I've just been reading up on fans a bit more and I think I've just confused myself. Haha. Reading a few horror stories about Slipstreams. Think I may just grab them and experiment. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs etc. Guess I'll grab a fan controller whilst I'm at it too.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:05 pm 
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about the acoustipack: you have to have an extremely quiet system for it to make a difference. i'd look at suspending any hard drives you have before moving onto foam.

with your tricools: try running them at 7v and 5v with molex mods; then turning the switch to low. from my experiments, the tricool @7v & on low was getting close to a slipstream i was running at 700-900rpm. if you wire the fan for 5v, you might just turn that h-m-l switch to a start-medium-off since most fans can run on less voltage than it takes to start them, in my experience. with all that said though, they do have that DBB sound to them.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Hey guys, just to say I dropped in my spare GPU. Turns out it was actually just a 7300GS but it's worked nicely so far. One output is a VGA but no biggie. No fan noise (passive card) and temps have dropped a good 10-15 degrees too.

On some testing the tricools are by far my biggest problem now. The Slipstream on the Ninja actually isn't bad when it's spinning. Worst source of noise is the top exhaust though which I'll have to block up some time.

I've done a bit of reading on molex mods but are they reversible? They seem to require cutting wires and I'm not too hot on that if I can't reverse it.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:14 pm 
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if you are worried about it, just do the mod to a molex extension cable instead :)


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Block the top, swap the rear for a Slipstream 800 and plug it into your mobo for control.

Molex extention mod to 5v is simple and safe. I don't think it will work well with a Tricool though. The switch is already undervolting... Go any lower and it might not start.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:06 pm 
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Ok well on a bit of research it looks like the tricools on low are already running at 5v so not going to be able to mod them. Am I wrong in this?

EDIT: (Was being retarded about the wires) But new fans seem to be the easier option still.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:51 pm 
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i dont think thats right at all... i have no issues win my tricool. repined the molex for 7v, and the h-m-l switch still works.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 10:11 pm 
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fumino wrote:
i dont think thats right at all... i have no issues win my tricool. repined the molex for 7v, and the h-m-l switch still works.

Does it start if the switch is on low?

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:37 pm 
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yeah. with it running at 7v, it will start at low.

you might want to try 5v though, if it starts for you then you'll be even better off.
Edit: starts at 5v, on low as well.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:19 am 
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fumino wrote:
yeah. with it running at 7v, it will start at low.

you might want to try 5v though, if it starts for you then you'll be even better off.
Edit: starts at 5v, on low as well.


Thanks that's good to know.

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Video Edit- Antec P183, i7 2600, Intel DP67BG, Quadro 2000, Samsung 500GB system, 2*WB 1TB RAID 0, TRUE, Seasonic S12II620


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 Post subject: Re: 'Noob' considering P182 silencing (mods)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:19 am 
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Fumino, how did you go about doing the mod? Did you use molex extensions or do it directly to the fan molex? You wouldn't happen to have any pics handy would you? I'm all very new to this. I've already order some Slipstreams but would be good test out the tricools if I want.


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