hi

im building a mini itx htpc with the following specs

mobo: GF9300-G-E
cpu: e8400
case: antec isk 300-150
slim optical drive
2gb ram

what would be the best heatsink for the e8400 with the given case and mobo... ive read that the xigmatek d982 fits without mods and the big shuriken fits with some modification (cutting the hdd tray or something).. and the arctic freezer 11 LP peaked my interest... the main use for the htpc to play videos and slight gaming (ROMS mostly)

any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated...

thanks

The total case heigth is only 96mm
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Antec_ISK300-65

A Big Shuriken will fit on the board (but its tricky to do). I suspect you have enough height for it (it needs 57mm including a 12mm thick fan) , but if others say you have to cut something, I guess you need to cut something.

A samuel 17 might fit as well (per SPCR the Big Shuriken cools better)

In either event I think you should cut a 120mm hole in the top and cover it up with a black filterright filter:
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/ ... s_id=30036
or
http://www.microcenter.com/single_produ ... id=0326292

If you cut the hole, I suspect a Cooler Master GeminII S heatsink will fit. It needs 88mm of height with a 25mm fan. It is a much better cooler than the other two above, especially if you use a nexus fan or a slipstream fan. You will need to cut the above hole, place the fan on the external side of the hole and then cover the fan with the filterright filter.

The Cooler Master GeminII S, even with a 500 rpm external fan will have much more cooling power than you will ever need for for an e8400. (I have the e8200 with a Little Shurekin with a 25mm x 120mm fan and I am not pleased at all with it. And I am suspicious of the Big Shuriken with the 12mm x 120mm fan)

Don't forget, if you don't cut the 120mm hole, you need 1 fan thickness of clearance above the fan for it to breath properly.

Why are you not considering a Zotac board with a Sandy Bridge?

If the Big Shuriken needs a cut, the Samuel might not fit (though it shares roughly the same dimensions as the former, it also sports a regular 120mm fan and the height would be around 73mm): despite it's 28% taller, it should more heavily interfere with RAM placement (providing that in an mITX board you have just two socket). However, if it fits, then it should be a better fit than the Big Shuriken with reference to the side fans.
Eventually it cools BETTER than the Big Shuriken (even per SPCR).


There's no evidence at all.


You're just not able to use it (I own all the mentioned coolers, but the Samuel).

@OP: I would just use another enclosure, Antec ITX solutions are barely acceptable, or even crap at all (and the FlexATX PSU of the 150 is really annoying).

I believe you are in error on which cools better on the high end or on the bottom end:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1059-page6.html

I've already answered you about this point, I will not repeat myself.

I guess you did. I must not have noticed it or I would have responded.

Still, if you go to
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1059-page6.html
which is the same page we are both referencing:

Scythe Big Shuriken with Nexus 120 mm fan
24 C at 12V
33 C at 7V

Prolimatech Samuel 17 with Nexus 120 mm fan
27 C at 12V
36 C at 7V

"Scythe's heatsink edges out Prolimatech's by 3°C, both at 12V/16 dBA and 7V/12 dBA, so the Big Shuriken retains remains the top dog when it comes to compact coolers." SPCR. So at least according to SPCR, it appears that the Big Shuriken is across the board 3C better than the Samuel 17. (Now you could try both heatsinks with the 12mm Big Shuriken fan. I doubt the comparative results would differ.)

3C is not a big difference in the greater scheme of things. But still one that might cause someone to select the Big Shuriken over the Samuel 17.

By the way, Per SPCR the Geminii II runs at 21°C with a Nexus fan
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article976-page9.html
It is 86 mm high (with 25mm fan) compared to the 57 mm height (with 12mm fan) of the Big Shuriken
(now we are talking about 6 C... that is a decidedly larger difference)

Further, in my opinion, these three heatsinks (plus maybe on the high side the new Noctua... 105mm high with one fan) are the only low profile heatsinks worth considering amongst todays modern offerings. You can argue back and forth between all 4 of them. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses. But in my opinion they are the entire field worth any consideration.

wouldnt that cut interfere with the slim optical drive?

i mean from the looks of it the big shuriken needs that space to fit properly

On the contrary without swapping the Big Shuriken fan, the Samuel takes a 6°C edge over the Scythe at the 13 dBA level (the lowest directly comparable one).


As I've already told you, the Gemini IIS values has been recorded on a different test system, Presler-based.
On the Presler the difference between the Scythe and the CM is just 1-2°C (and it's a Shuriken's advantage), and even if the CM gives better results with the Nexus, the Scythe hasn't been tested with it in that comparison.

I didn't catch that.

So when tested on the same system (with the same Nexus fan?), the Shuriken is slightly superior to the Gemini IIS? Live and learn.

Maybe I am being dyslexic, but with the same Nexus fan

Scythe Big Shuriken with Nexus 120 mm fan
24 C at 12V 16 dBA
33 C at 7V 12 dBA

Samuel 17 with Nexus 120 mm fan
27 C at 12V 16 dBA
36 C at 7V 12 dBA

If you optimize for sound at 12 dBA the Scythe Big Shuriken is 3C better than the Samuel 17
If you pump it up a bit to 16 dBA for better cooling, the Scythe Big Shuriken is 3C better than the Samuel 17
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1059-page6.html

As the Samuel 17 comes with no fan, the only fair way to compare both coolers is to use the same fan on both. The only same fan data available is both using the Nexus.

Not that this is particularly relevant to sound levels, here are some results using stock fans from Frostytech. Measuring noise isn't Frostytech's forte, but they are pretty good at maintaining stable and comparable test environments for purposes of comparing cooling capability. In terms of cooling capacity (as opposed to noise levels), Frostytech rankings generally track SPCR rankings.

Noctua NH-C14 (with the two stock 140mm Noctua fans running full bore)
14.1C with 150W thermal load
8.9C with 85W thermal load

Scythe Mugen
19.5C with 150W thermal load
11.4C with 85W thermal load

Both GeminII S and Noctua NH-U12P (a dead "heat") each using a single stock fan
21.3C with 150W thermal load
13.4C with 85W thermal load

Xigmatek Thors Hammer S126384
21.8C with 150W thermal load
13.2C with 85W thermal load

Thermalright SI-128SE
26.5C with 150W thermal load
15.2C with 85W thermal load

Scythe Big Shuriken
34.6C with 150W thermal load
22.1C with 85W thermal load

Intel Stock Pentium D
33.8C with 150W thermal load
20.7C with 85W thermal load

Intel Stock Core 2 Duo E4400
41.5C with 150W thermal load
25.2C with 85W thermal load

The discrepancy between the GeminII S and the Big Shuriken can perhaps be explained to some extent by the difference in their stock fans. With the 12mm Shuriken fan being at a decided disadvantage against the Geminii's 25mm fan.

See for reference:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 562&page=5

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article976-page8.html

It should fit.


I guess that you may either cut that tray, or you may move backwards the fan.

I can't know, I hope you're not so (as it is a severe disease), but surely you sometimes look like unnecessary (and time-consuming) hypertrophic (as in the Frostytech case, somehow exemplary of somewhat misinterpreted data, where a Noctua compares to the Gemini just when their fans spins respectively around 1200 and 2000rpm: SPCR findings are still handily, but IMO much more understandable).


And I guess it's a legitimate opinion (and also SPCR tested both with that fan: just as a side note, personally I won't use it or other sleeve bearing ones in an horizontal mount), even if doing so you're partially nullifying the two actual advantages of the Big Shuriken (height and cost).

It is also a fact that a "stock" Big Shuriken over a "stock" (I mean paired with any regular fan) Samuel 17 doesn't have any performance edge at any given sound level.

I mean we have been gone too far in the OT territory, however: so I beg your pardon if I won't repeat/articulate any furtherly these my thoughts.

Yeah, sorry for the hypertrophy. I'll just rely on the SPCR synopsys and file it away:

"The tables turn when both the Big Shuriken and Samuel 17 are equipped with our reference 120 mm fan. Scythe's heatsink edges out Prolimatech's by 3°C, both at 12V/16 dBA and 7V/12 dBA, so the Big Shuriken retains remains the top dog when it comes to compact coolers." SPCR (the class of compact coolers being Mini Ninja, Xigmatek SD964, Samurai ZZ, Big Shuriken, Samuel 17, Gelid Silent Spirit)
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1059-page6.html

Just for the record, I am no fanboy of the Shuriken or the Big Shuriken. And I was surprised and disappointed that the Samuel 17 did so poorly. Given that it is built by Prolimatech, I expected more from it. Until that review I had plans to buy a Samuel 17.

But the Shuriken or the Big Shuriken are both just so difficult to mount they just aren't worth it regardless of their performance, in my opinion. In addition, specifically on the Zotac, you actually have to remove, then remount, the other heat sink to squeeze the Big Shuriken in and there is still some interference between one of the Big Shuriken's feet and another Zotac component. How you properly remount the other heatsink, once you have the Big Shuriken mounted... beats me. But people have done it. One big headache.

Personally if I am ever using a case where the Shuriken or the Big Shuriken are the only options, (and the slightly taller Geminii won't fit) I will just find another case.

Apart you're just boringly repeating too much times the very same words (we have understood your point, trust me), take note that even if I said I wouldn't have repeated myself, that doesn't mean that I would let such a silliness pass freely.

An homogeneous "class of compact coolers" as you instantiate simply doesn't exist (neither SPCR ever dreamed to define so your spurious gloss): not even by mistake a "Minja" or an SD-964 would ever be in the same league of a Scythe Big Shuriken (and as a matter of fact they cools better, and they are twice or three times taller than this latter). And if it's not homogeneous, it can't be a "class" (the chart on SPCR has mostly an historical reason, the coolers which fit inside the NSK2480/Fusion which MikeC engineered along with Antec, IIRC). And if there isn't such your "class", the Big Shuriken can't be its "top-dog".

Or do you want to argue that a Noctua NH-C14 is a Shuriken par, because it can be 6mm shorter than a Minja? Please be gentle, make my day.


As I've already said, a really small case as the Antec ISK 300/310 is a trade off personally I wouldn't afford.

That said, I agree that stock mounting system has ever been the Achille's heel of any Scythe's cooler (with some noticeably exceptions).
But it's just a surmountable (pun not intended) drawback: the Big Shuriken just need a SCURK 3000 kit to be ok on an Intel platform (on AMD platforms the stock mounting system is still infamous but works really well).

Another, different issue it's the Zotac boards: it would look like that you simply haven't completely done your homework, IMVHO.
IMO Zotac is one of the less effective choice in a quietness perspective: a dull BIOS, no real possibilities to effectively control its headers with SpeedFan (or under Linux with fancontrol, IME), paired with the 2300rpm fan of the original Shuriken it's likely to be half a nightmare (while that fan is inaudible under 1000rpm and still able to run a pair of instances of Prime95 with safe temps).

Add a more probably that not somewhat poor socket placement and the board small form factor, pair those elements with a cramped enclosure (or you wouldn't have need a Shuriken, I guess), and you are likely to have a though, disappointing combination for a silencer.

Anyway, there isn't just the two Shurikens to work in tighty spaces: there's at least also the Nexus LOW-7000 R2, probably the real "top-dog" with reference to the quoted SPCR roundup (unfortunately it's rather uncommon and often expensive, besides be a bit taller), and in some cases the Thermalright AXP-140. And probably even some other else.

I don't like doing that either. As I am shifting toward ITX size cases... it seems not so easy to avoid. Many of these cases can be placed horizontal and vertical and you can't always predict how you will place it.

My personal solution is to not worry about it until the fan starts make noise. Some people it seems never run into that problem. If I run into it, I can just put in a bearing fan.

By the way, the only true readily available ball bearing fans (designed for PCs) that I am aware of are the Scythe Gentle Typhoons. All the others are gussied up sleeve bearings with fancy names. Read closely and you will see what I mean.

Here is an option I forgot all about. MikeC came up with it. I have never tried it... but it seems simple and inexpensive. I sort of like it. I bet it would work with a 140mm fan.... though the hub might block out some airflow.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article976-page3.html

I don't like them because they seem to be energy hogs in comparison to other ITX boards... at least in the reviews that I have seen in the past.

But cmge did specify a Zotac board for his project. That was the reason I mentioned it. I thought he should be aware of that.

I forgot about the Thermalright AXP-140. But that is sort of tall isn't it?

The Nexus LOW-7000 I guess is good. They generally don't come to my mind when I think of heatsinks. They don't seem to be readily available in the US. And generally Nexus isn't a brand name I trust with respect to heatsinks Like I do Prolimatech, Noctua or thermalright. Nexus has produced too many clunker heatsinks for my comfort. I guess I just don't trust their heatsinks.

Give me a break... I was just quoting from SPCR. I might not be deserving of any respect.... but I thought SPCR might... just a little.



Is it an arbitrary class? Sure. And I am certain SPCR knows that. It's just an framing tool they used to write an article. It's not that big a deal. It isn't like they are trying to define what a planet is.

Sorry, english isn't my language, so I can't defend myself from such vicious words circles.

Sorry. I didn't mean to get convoluted.

The person who started this thread was asking for help selecting a cpu cooler for use on a Zotac motherboard. The reason I brought up the Zotac with reference to the Big Shuriken is that whatever cpu cooler he uses, he is going to have to mount on a Zotac board.

I was pointing out to him that the combination of a Zotac GF9300-G-E and a Big Shuriken cpu cooler is a difficult project.

You seemed to object to me bringing this subject up (and I may have misunderstood you). So I was explaining that the only reason I mentioned this mounting problem was that it would be the specific problem he would need to face if he chose the Big Shuriken.

That is all. It wasn't meant to be an attack for which a defense was needed. It was just an explanation to reduce friction not create it.

You will ever deserve the full respect any Man on Earth does.
Some of your assertions often look like very questionable.


You probably haven't got my point, or I wasn't able to let you understand it.

"the Big Shuriken retains remains the top dog when it comes to compact coolers" - this is the SPCR quoting, no question.
But: the class of compact coolers being Mini Ninja, Xigmatek SD964, Samurai ZZ, Big Shuriken, Samuel 17, Gelid Silent Spirit - on the contrary this is your own gloss (and indeed it's the only state I've quoted), the one you've written just after closing the quotation marks, the one I never found into that SPCR article, and just that last one (neither SPCR, nor above all you yourself) IMO it's groundless and misleading (in two words: definitely wrong). IMO, of course.


Bla bla bla: ces, believe me please, you're pointless repeating yourself.
I've only said that SPCR hasn't defined any "compact coolers" class (you did it).
They've just generally spoke of "compact coolers": give a look to some of my previous words, such as: «An homogeneous "class of compact coolers" as you instantiate», maybe you may better understand my point (if I haven't made any grammar mistake).

I haven't understood that point (I've also not understood it was right a Zotac from the code): at anyway, I suspect that if you had have properly quoted the OP, probably I would have understood a bit better your states.
I mean, you can't answer to me speaking to the OP and/or about the OP: please, quote the OP to do that.

@OP: I would advice for choosing another board, or adding at least a Zalman FanMate PWM to your parts list.

Dumb question: What does OP stand for?

I almost didn't put that in there... but I didn't want to be misinterpreted or for you to think I was extending application of the quote beyond what it was about. I just cut and pasted that list from the page from which I was quoting. I did that to add clarity and avoid misinterpretation... and decrease the likelihood of irritation not increase it. Honest.

I mean the common acronym for "Original Poster".

i really appreciated the input guys... especially ces and quest_for_silence

the reason i didnt go for a better build is that i had a few spare parts lying around and i got the zotac board really cheap... this build wont be on all the time so im not too worried about increased sound and heat... it will essentially be used for playing movies, light gaming (roms) and internet use

and i will be going the big shuriken route with the scurk 3000

as for the zalman fanmate.. for clarification that would be used to control the hsf right?