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 Post subject: AM3+?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:37 am 
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Considering upgrading my sempron system in my sig.. a sempron 140/150 seems to fit the bill.. so i'm now considering between a cheap AM3 board or one with AM3+ suport or wait.

Does the HD3000/4200/4250/NV7025 properly support 24p?

I have seen that Asus/Gigabyte/MSI have announced AM3+ compatibilty with some of their boards. is there anything m-atx at a good price? how about with sata 3? hdmi?

Anyone have any opinion on whether/ when we are going to see cheap AM3+ boards with these features?

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:38 am 
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I don't think you will get proper support on any chipset without a Phenom II processor. You need the HT3.0+ capable processors for the full-feature support for IDCT and sharpening, if I'm not mistaken.

I think you'll find that many AM3 boards will support AM3+ processors just fine, only without official AMD approval.

I wouldn't waste money on a single core CPU that runs at 45W, when you can get 2-4x the cores and speed for the same TDP, albeit at a higher price.

Don't bother waiting for AM3+ unless you plan on getting a Bulldozer CPU (June at least)...

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:48 am 
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It seems only nvidia's 8200/8300 properly supports 24p in the IGP world.. there don't seem to be (m)any for AM3?

The reason I was hoping for AM3+ support was because i'd like a 32nm upgrade path in the future.

Whilst there are 2/4 core cpus with the same TDP, i doubt very much they will output the same heat in practice? Unless the unused core is almost using the same power? I'd like to continue without fans

--Any examples of 0 fan systems on the low/ish AMD side?

Putting upgrade paths (and atom) aside, is an AMD platform preffered for a 0 fan/cheap/DDR3 scenario? (compared to G41 i guess?)

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:54 am 
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Socket AM3+ or Socket FM1 ?

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-llano ... 35350.html

I am guessing that AMD will officially call the socket FM1 to avoid confusion with AM3 motherboards as obviously the socket is very different. Looking at the socket it is now obvious that AM3 CPU's will not fit into an FM1 socket, and FM1 APU's will not work in an AM3 socket - so here we have a whole new socket, and motherboards to go with.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:52 pm 
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andyb wrote:
Socket AM3+ or Socket FM1 ?

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/amd-llano ... 35350.html

I am guessing that AMD will officially call the socket FM1 to avoid confusion with AM3 motherboards as obviously the socket is very different. Looking at the socket it is now obvious that AM3 CPU's will not fit into an FM1 socket, and FM1 APU's will not work in an AM3 socket - so here we have a whole new socket, and motherboards to go with.

They're differentiating the market same as Intel did with LGA-1156/1366. AM3+ will be for high-end (likely no IGP) and FM1 will be for mainstream. Personally going for Llano. We've got oodles of CPU power available even with the lowest-end modern x86 CPU (bar Atom/Zacate). One nice thing with having an APU, when you upgrade your CPU, you'd probably also get a slight GPU upgrade as a side effect. Pretty nice if you only need integrated graphics. :)


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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:43 pm 
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mb2 wrote:
Does the HD3000/4200/4250/NV7025 properly support 24p?

does your hdtv support it? probably, since youre interested, right?

within CCC, with a 1920x1080 screen connected, select the 23Hz option, NOT 24Hz. 23Hz is amd's abbreviation for 23.976.

this should work with the integrated 4200 series and up.

a bit more about fps:
ntsc film is at 24000/1001 fps, not true 24 fps. iirc, this has to do with flicker rates of tvs being affected by powerline current back in the day; the same reason is why pal film is true 25fps.



on which path to take: i went with buying the cheapest cpu, and motherboard i could get(that werent absolute crap). for me theres just too much up in the air about which boards will support which cpus, etc. generally too many unknowns for me to spend more on a platform i might not want.

tl;dr buy something cheap to hold you over. sempron 140, 880g working fine here.

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Quote:
They're differentiating the market


They are, but this time I have to give them sone credit, as there have been "artificial" differences presented to the market by both Intel and AMD over the years, take 754 and 939, the chips were to start with almost identical - but one was "artificially" cut down, Intel has also done the same thing in the past (and currently).

However it looks like AMD have learned their lesson from the 754/939 saga, this time there is no artificial seperation at all as the CPU's/APU's are obviously aimed at different sectors, and there is nothing artificial there at all - clever AMD - keep it up.

E Series - Brazos = low-end / media / low CPU performance, good video playback.

A Series - Llano = mid-range / standard use + media / good all round performance.

FX? Series - Bulldozer = high-end / HPC - Server - Gamer - Workstation / No Graphics included but high-performance with many cores (8 for now).

This seems to be a totally natural evolution of "what the market wants" vs what the manufacturer wants to sell to the market, and it looks like there are 3-platforms but 2-sockets as Brazos is an integrated-only part.

Of course the majority of buyers will end up with the new "Socket FM1" as they will get excelent CPU + GPU performance whilst I expect that AM3+ will slowly morph into a platform with either low-end (integrated into the chipset) graphics for some users or for those who demand the most graphics performance high performance graphics card(s) - I expect it to end up being an exclusive club while FM1 slowly takes control of the mid-range.

The mid-range is of course where the vast majority of the volume is concentrated and AMD have taken a mighty and very clever gamble that has taken years to come to fruition - ATI. It was a Genius idea to merge a CPU and a GPU and make an APU - yes others got there first - but AMD have got it right.

Anyone who has ever used a machine with an Atom CPU and crappy Intel graphics will tell you that it is a media-less experience, the internet is full to the point of overflowing with media, high-def is slowly becoming the norm, more people are using computers to watch videos and TV on, and casual PC gaming (flash) is now the norm for many people who dont even consider themselves "game players". All of this means that AMD are about to give the IT world a kick, and further enable the media frenzied world that we now live in.

Computers are no longer dull beige boxes used by people to do work on, they are sleek machines of entertainment, information, play, and sometimes work. Media has changed our usage of computers a lot in just a few years, AMD saw the way the market was moving and is moving with it, I know that FM1 will be a great sucess and finally (hopefully) people will suddenly realise that the performance of the "CPU" doesnt matter that much anymore, but the "GPU" is great - "all hail the GPU". This is where AMD will hand out a beating to Intel, Intel has a pretty decent GPU attatched to their CPU right now, but AMD now have the "APU" - and this means that for any media-centric buyer that actually understands what they want AMD will be the choice and FM1 will be the platform.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:29 pm 
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andyb wrote:
Computers are no longer dull beige boxes used by people to do work on, they are sleek machines of entertainment, information, play, and sometimes work. Media has changed our usage of computers a lot in just a few years, AMD saw the way the market was moving and is moving with it, I know that FM1 will be a great sucess and finally (hopefully) people will suddenly realise that the performance of the "CPU" doesnt matter that much anymore, but the "GPU" is great - "all hail the GPU". This is where AMD will hand out a beating to Intel, Intel has a pretty decent GPU attatched to their CPU right now, but AMD now have the "APU" - and this means that for any media-centric buyer that actually understands what they want AMD will be the choice and FM1 will be the platform.

Well said. With AMD's acquisition of ATI, they're in much better footing than Intel and if they can market Llano correctly, they've got a good chance of wresting a sizable share of the mainstream desktop and notebook markets from Intel. I wouldn't go so far as saying CPU isn't important. Rather, AMD understands that we need both a good CPU + good GPU for a seamless experience (Atom/ION and Zacate are examples of too much GPU, not enough CPU) and unlike Intel and NVIDIA, AMD has just the right tools to make it happen.

Intel only has a decent IGP compared to current competition because AMD didn't bother increasing IGP performance from the 700 series going to the 800 series and NVIDIA has gone out of the chipset business. I reckon all the people in AMD are busy with Zacate/Llano and Bulldozer. However, it looks like AMD's efforts are about to pay off big time. :D

Now if we can just convince more people to move to SSD's. :D


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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:12 pm 
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http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/disp ... ridge.html

As I said.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:42 pm 
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i hope software companies take note and use more opencl to make use of all this fp compute power.

llano mini-itx that can blaze through rendering without needing a dedicated gpu... oh man.

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 Post subject: Re: AM3+?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:42 am 
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It seems 3200/4200/4250 can almost do 24p, missingremote clocked it at 23.969 fps (cf. 23.976). No HDMI audio though.. and 'not quite' can be almost as annoying as 'not' (FWIW i couldn't ever get it working properly on my 4770 either).

I can't say I support AMDs socket separation.. just reduces AMD-AMD upgrade possibility. I don't see FM1 being the major AMD platform (outside of OEMs).. what you describe as 'excellent' GPU performance is still pretty weak compared to most discrete GPUs, similarly CPU performance is sub par. I agree its a great combination on a budget-- really great for OEMs-- but i don't see many enthusiasts biting. Also note the '3x sandybridge gpu' is based on the weaker HD2000. I don't see AMD/FM1 as the 'obvious' choice for HTPC systems either.. all intel is missing currently is 24p support (hopefully! will come with IB). The GPU power is ample for anything but gaming, and llano doesn't bring enthusiast gaming power either.. So that leaves only the casual gamer who benefits. It will make things interesting though.

mb2 wrote:
Any examples of 0 fan systems on the low/ish AMD side?

Putting upgrade paths (and atom) aside, is an AMD platform preffered for a 0 fan/cheap/DDR3 scenario? (compared to G41 i guess?)

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