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 Post subject: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:36 pm 
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But this seems like a good place for informed opinions about this, so here goes.

I've just built my second low-budget computer for general purpose home use, some browsing & light audio & photo editing.

Here's what I've got. a Compucase mini tower w/ psu, Asus M4A785M board, AMD Athlon II X2 245 w/ stock HSF, WD 500GB Green HD, Samsung DVD burner, 2X2GB Corsair XMS2 RAM. Will post other or more detail if needed.

The other components are surprisingly (to me anyway) tolerable noise-wise, and I'm not a picky guy, but I find the stock HSF too noisy and have a $70 budget to try to fix it. I'd rather avoid pulling off the motherboard to install anything, seems excessive for my needs.

I'm thinking of starting this process by replacing the stock HSF with an Arctic alpine 64-- a rather low-budget way of finding out what all the numbers and reviews mean to me noise wise in my own home.

Any advice or opinions you'd care to share would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for looking.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:25 am 
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Welcome to SPCR!

I'm not familiar with that case -- can you post a picture of your setup so we can see the space we are "working with", please?

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:02 am 
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will try to post a link here.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ImageGall ... r%20Supply



There's nothing else in the case, as I'm running the IGP Radeon HD4200 and I've routed what cabling I have away from the case & HSF fans.

If that doesn't work, I'll snap a pic when I return this eve.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:21 am 
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Forgot to mention I've measured as best I can and a Shuriken will fit as will the Arctic Alpine 64, without having to shift memory sticks around or remove the MB.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:54 am 
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Have you made sure the stock fan is being thermally controlled, rather than being at 100% all the time? On the Power-->Hardware Monitor page in the BIOS, make sure that Smart Q-Fan is enabled.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:14 am 
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Or consider using speedfan. Proper use of speedfan will fix your noise levels for free.

Though I must say I've had problems with the installer for 4.4x so if you have problems with it let me know and I can send you 4.39.

I hear there are issues with Win7 and speedfan but if you are still on XP give it a shot.

viewtopic.php?t=42526 has some thoughts on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:14 pm 
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Thanks for the responses.

Cool & Quiet AND Smartfan (Qfan, whatever that's called) have been "enabled" in the BIOS. HSF always seems to run at about 2000 though. Maybe I don't really ever stress this system much(?)

Forgot to mention I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS so Speedfan I believe is not an option unfortunately, and I'm beginning to suspect might be why the fan speed reads as being controlled but possibly isn't (?) Didn't think the OS choice would affect this issue, but will post over there as well, maybe it does.

Posted to the ASUS support site on this subject quite a while ago without a response.

It is a four pin HSF plugged into the correct MB header.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:52 am 
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fordprefect wrote:
I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS so Speedfan I believe is not an option

I guess it should not be a serious issue: man fancontrol (8), it usually does better than speedfan itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:23 am 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
fordprefect wrote:
I'm running Ubuntu 10.04 LTS so Speedfan I believe is not an option

I guess it should not be a serious issue: man fancontrol (8), it usually does better than speedfan itself.

Ah, thanks, I'm mostly unacquainted with CLI stuff but will try to pick it up for this. I believe i need to install lm sensors or something like that?

-anyway, thanks for the help.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:32 am 
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fordprefect wrote:
I believe i need to install lm sensors or something like that?

Yes, likely, and a towel.

But I mean that most probably that not you just need to configure it (perform a search inside these forums for more hints).

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:42 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
fordprefect wrote:
I believe i need to install lm sensors or something like that?

Yes, likely, and a towel.

But I mean that most probably that not you just need to configure it (perform a search inside these forums for more hints).


Ah, yes, the towel. Wrapped around my head as we speak (don't want to see what I'm doing)

But I can't quite make sense out of your remark. Could you elucidate please?

Thanks for taking an interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:25 am 
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fordprefect wrote:
But I can't quite make sense out of your remark. Could you elucidate please?

I was thinking lm-sensors was already installed with Ubuntu 10.04, but after a quick search I've discovered I'm wrong: so actually you need to install lm-sensors/fancontrol and configure them (you may check ubuntuforums/google for current relevant issues).

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:32 pm 
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Well, I've tried dozens of times from dozens of angles to install & configure fan control via CLI in Ubuntu to no avail. I decided to count that out as a solution.

Bought-and installed--an AC Alpine 64 and RPMs and noise levels dropped to within bearable limits. (The stock HSF was only 65mm! Oy!). So much so, though, I've begun to notice just how noisy the case fan has been all this time!

So down the slippery slope I go, with one request then.

I currently have a stock 80mm 3-pin case fan, blazing away at about 2500RPM in my case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811121003

Any advice on a nice quiet 92mm? or do you think I could fit a 120mm in there?

Thanks for the help, everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:17 am 
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fordprefect wrote:
Well, I've tried dozens of times from dozens of angles to install & configure fan control via CLI in Ubuntu to no avail. I decided to count that out as a solution.

You might also give a look to Wine and SpeedFan (or Argus Monitor, someone recently told me) to see if it may work.

Or you may go for an external controller: these days I always advise in favour of the Scythe Kaze Server.

fordprefect wrote:
I currently have a stock 80mm 3-pin case fan, blazing away at about 2500RPM in my case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811121003

Any advice on a nice quiet 92mm? or do you think I could fit a 120mm in there?

Without cutting the metal, I mean no: but you're too close to the rear I/O panel, so I mean no anyway.
Talking about 92mm fans, I think you might go for something like this Nexus (if you control it with a software or an external rheobus), or for a a Scythe like this other one (if you won't control it at all but use a std 4-pin molex to feed it). You might also use a dropping resistor (or an adapter cable) with the Nexus (I mean something which gives you around 8-9V).

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:59 am 
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Getting back to changing the cooler for a moment, I've used a Big Shuriken before and it performs wonderfully, and even better if you swap the fan for one 25mm thick. Scythe's Ratesu cooler will probably perform better if you have enough clearance. (At least an inch of space above the fan so it can breathe)

Also, you would do well to upgrade that exhaust fan to a 120mm if you haven't already. I suggest ditching the screws for Nexus' silicone fan mounts because they prevent the fan's vibrations from reaching the case. HUGE improvement. They also make a 120mm vibration dampener that will work on a cooler, cured my Shuriken's annoying rattlle.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:38 am 
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Fire-Flare wrote:
you would do well to upgrade that exhaust fan to a 120mm if you haven't already.

It would be interesting to know how he may make so.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:43 am 
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Thanks for the help folks.

Fireflare, I'm stuck with the Alpine for the time being. Budgetary concerns.

Luca, I'll look into the recommendations. I think my MB may be just wonky enough so that fan control can't work at all (rather not have to send it back, hassle) so I'm stuck with picking a case fan that has low RPM unmanaged. I don't produce enough heat using this box to warrant any serious power management schemes anyway, although the MB temp readings I can access via xsensors says 36to 40C (upper limit) all the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:16 pm 
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Found a solution of sorts for anyone that's interested. I shelled out the $20 for a Noctua 92mm case fan--(it fit without having to mod the case).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835608005

Hooked up the LNA adapter and that got the noise down to a barely perceptible and thoroughly liveable level whilst maintaining MB & CPU temps.

The original case fan was a sleeve-bearing 80mm whiner running @ 2800rpm --hairdryer levels!

I shredded one of the four pull-through rubber mounts--fat fingers or just naturally clumsy, take your pick.

Now I can hear the Alpine HSF, I think I'm slipping down a slope here.

Anyway, thanks for all your help folks, couldn't have done it without you.

Now, about that Noctua's fugly monkey-s**t brown color scheme.....:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:00 pm 
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I've been researching quieter HSF for my low budget build(see specs in first posts above or ask again if you need more info) and stumbled across this Noctua http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=32&lng=en&set=1 which I think will fit into my Compucase on an Asus M4A-785M.

I believe it will be quiet enough, certainly quieter than the current ACALP 64.

I figure on only being able to use one fan (only one CPU fan header on this MB that I can see)

Already installed a Noctua case fan on this that I'm quite happy with hence the confidence in this product.

Does any of this make sense, or any thoughts you may care to share?

Sorry for being so long-winded, and thanks for looking.

-oh, noticed & joined the FB page too.

-Edit: forgot to mention I think the fan is 3-pin and the header is 4-pin. What kinds of problems would that present?


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:20 pm 
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fordprefect wrote:
I figure on only being able to use one fan (only one CPU fan header on this MB that I can see)


that cooler should come with a little adapter to allow you to plug both fans into the same motherboard header.

fordprefect wrote:
I think the fan is 3-pin and the header is 4-pin. What kinds of problems would that present?

none.

well, unless your motherboard doesnt support voltage based control on that pwm header.... but you'll still have the speed adapters that come with the cooler too.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:23 pm 
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fordprefect wrote:
I've been researching quieter HSF for my low budget build(see specs in first posts above or ask again if you need more info) and stumbled across this Noctua http://www.noctua.at/main.php?show=productview&products_id=32&lng=en&set=1 which I think will fit into my Compucase on an Asus M4A-785M.

I believe it will be quiet enough, certainly quieter than the current ACALP 64.

I figure on only being able to use one fan (only one CPU fan header on this MB that I can see)

Already installed a Noctua case fan on this that I'm quite happy with hence the confidence in this product.

Does any of this make sense, or any thoughts you may care to share?

Sorry for being so long-winded, and thanks for looking.

-oh, noticed & joined the FB page too.

-Edit: forgot to mention I think the fan is 3-pin and the header is 4-pin. What kinds of problems would that present?
This cooler's fans aren't PWM. That is why they have 3 pin cables. I would just use both fans and set them at low speed. It will be quiet and it will be cool.

This heat sink is actually quieter than its bigger brother.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:32 pm 
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Thanks fumino & ces, love this forum!

Didn't look at the packaging so carefully as yet, the MB does have some control scheme, smartfan I believe it's called. Just couldn't see that there's any way of getting the three-pin fan to the four-pin header. Adapters included maybe?

My budget improved a little, and already having a noctua really sold me on this one. I do think I'll have to take the MB out, a little apprehensive about that, Murphy's law and all. Now to just very carefully measure inside the case before payday and ordering.


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 10:20 pm 
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fordprefect wrote:
Didn't look at the packaging so carefully as yet, the MB does have some control scheme, smartfan I believe it's called. Just couldn't see that there's any way of getting the three-pin fan to the four-pin header. Adapters included maybe?
Those fans aren't going to be driven by the 4 pin PWM fan header... though Nanoxia makes an adapter that can permit you to control a non-pwm fan as if it were a pwm fan.

Also I believe some motherboards have 3 pin fan headers that you can use to control non-pwm fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:22 am 
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fordprefect wrote:
Just couldn't see that there's any way of getting the three-pin fan to the four-pin header.

you can plug 3pin fans directly into 4pin fan headers. they're keyed, so you can only plug them in one way, no mistakes will be made.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 6:01 am 
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fumino wrote:
you can plug 3pin fans directly into 4pin fan headers. they're keyed, so you can only plug them in one way, no mistakes will be made.
What happens when you plug a 3 pin non-PWM fan into a 4 pin header intended for a PWM fan?

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:43 pm 
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ces wrote:
fumino wrote:
you can plug 3pin fans directly into 4pin fan headers. they're keyed, so you can only plug them in one way, no mistakes will be made.
What happens when you plug a 3 pin non-PWM fan into a 4 pin header intended for a PWM fan?

Generally speaking, it depends of the board firmware: most MSI and ASUS may drive either with their BIOS.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:02 pm 
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fordprefect wrote:
Now to just very carefully measure inside the case before payday and ordering.

It should fit without any issue, but maybe you have to dismantle the possible TAC duct on the side panel (pointless, however).

Better, as it won't be cheap at all, give also a look to the bigger brother NH-C14 because, if you can afford it (here it costs 50% more than the U9), it would fit as well, and it's far more future proof and effective.

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:35 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
ces wrote:
fumino wrote:
you can plug 3pin fans directly into 4pin fan headers. they're keyed, so you can only plug them in one way, no mistakes will be made.
What happens when you plug a 3 pin non-PWM fan into a 4 pin header intended for a PWM fan?

Generally speaking, it depends of the board firmware: most MSI and ASUS may drive either with their BIOS.

pretty much this. either the boards firmware is smart enough to realize its not pwm, and give it voltage control; or it will be run at 12v, since the fan isnt wired to react to a pwm signal(a signal it wont get either, since the fourth pin isnt there).

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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 3:56 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
fordprefect wrote:
Now to just very carefully measure inside the case before payday and ordering.

It should fit without any issue, but maybe you have to dismantle the possible TAC duct on the side panel (pointless, however).

Better, as it won't be cheap at all, give also a look to the bigger brother NH-C14 because, if you can afford it (here it costs 50% more than the U9), it would fit as well, and it's far more future proof and effective.


Quest: TAC duct referring to the case I assume? That's been removed since day one. Doesn't line up w/ my AMD stuff, assume it's meant to duct Intel setups properly.

Budgetwise, I'm probably unable to account for future-proofing, esp considering my board only takes DDR2 RAM anyway. Just want to quiet it down this little bit.

But thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for the help everyone!


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 Post subject: Re: Might be out of my league
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:21 am 
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Finally installed the Noctua U9B http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608016 and dropped temps about 3C but was dismayed to find the noise level not that much quieter than the AC alpine 64 it replaced.

I have both included fans mounted on the U9B in a push/pull config connected via ULNA adapters in a Y to the HSF fan header. Lowered HSF RPM by ~300-400, so I guess that's about as quiet as I can get without switching out the case for a better design airflow-wise.

Is there anything I might have missed, and does anyone think I could get away with running the U9B on my Athlon II 245 without fans?

Thanks for looking.


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