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 Post subject: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:33 pm
Posts: 20
Hi all, it's been 8 years since I built my last computer (with the help from this community, many thanks!). It's time for a new one, :)

From previous build:
Case: Antec Solo
Fan: Nexus case fans

Need to buy:
Psu: Seasonic X-560 (full modular make life easier, I suck at cable management)
Cpu: Intel i5-2400
Mobo: Asus or MSI H67, TBD
Ram: 16GB G-skill DDR3-1600
Ssd: Crucial 128GB C300
Video: Quiet 6850, TBD
Optical: Samsung Blu-Ray Drive
Heatsink: Hyper 212+
Monitor: Samsung 2333T

Usage:
Mostly web surfing, and light gaming: Civ 5, little starcraft 2, and lots of diablo 3 (when it's available).

Overclock: No. Too lazy for that this time, :)

Thanks in advance!

Update: Heatink changed to Hyper 212+. Mobo TBD (Asus or MSI). Video card TBD


Last edited by smallghost on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 708
Location: Denmark
For gaming and even intense web browsing, I don't think 16 GB is necessary. 4 GB will do just fine.

You can also choose a cheaper PSU, like a Cooler Master Silent Pro M (500/600/700).

And the stock cooler is probably too loud for you, but I don't know how tolerant you are to noise.

regards,

_________________
Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:15 am 
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Posts: 2877
Location: ITALY
smallghost wrote:
Psu: Seasonic X-560 (full modular make life easier, I suck at cable management)

Due to the aggressive behaviour of any Seasonic-based fan controller, and as you should have more than 200W inside, an Enermax Modu87+ would seem even better suited, in a Solo: check the relevant SPCR review.

smallghost wrote:
Mobo: Intel DH67CL (Intel sound & lan)

IMO/IME it's a far better choice (having quietness in mind) an MSI or an ASUS one over a more crippled Intel Media-series board, even if this latter can be cheaper, and it surely has some power consumption advantage.

smallghost wrote:
Heatsink: ??? (need advice here, is stock heatsink & fan loud?)

The stock fan is the usually crap.
Currently, more probably that not, the most bang for the buck is the Cooler Master Hyper 212+ paired with a Scythe Slipstream PWM.

But it depends of your location: apart shipping charges, someone is able to buy that pair for about 29 USD, some other else had to pay up to 48 USD, therefore summarizing YMMV.

OTOH with 16GB of RAM you could incur in some physical incompatibilities with tall RAM heatspreders (pretty useless, usually) like the Ripjaws-X from G.Skill. If in case, you have to make a tradeoff from spending more on some premium "slim" CPU heasink (even if the 212+ is already one of the less deep), use a less effective cooler such as some of the tallest down-blower, or buying RAM with more conscious heatspreader. Again YMMV.

smallghost wrote:
Video: Asus EAH6850

Probably I would rather a somewhat noticeably quieter (when run in its so called "Silent Mode") MSI Cyclone, over that ASUS. The relevant costs should be comparable.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:37 am 
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Posts: 189
Location: "Fake" Virginia, US
smallghost wrote:
Psu: Seasonic X-560
I don't see any problem with this. I was looking to buy this, but the X-650 went on sale to a price below this model. Note, this model is actually a newer revision of the X-Series than the X-650/750, but the changes are pretty minor. As for "aggressive" fan behavior, I've never heard anyone say that about this line before. On the contrary, in JonnyGuru's cold test, the fan didn't even start spinning until the PSU was putting out 300W. It did the same thing in the hot test, and managed to turn in nearly identical voltage and efficiency numbers. Everything I've read about this line has said that you won't hear any fan noise short of pushing it to its upper limits. Looking at what you've chosen, you're probably going to run totally fanless except in high-demand gaming.
smallghost wrote:
Cpu: Intel i5-2400
This should be a respectable CPU for mild gaming. I expect that it might start being a bottleneck in CPU-heavy games in a couple years, but so long as you know that going in, you'll be fine. (It also requires some bold guessing about the future of games)
smallghost wrote:
Ram: 16GB G-skill DDR3-1600
While its a bit hypocritical (I just bought 16GB of DDR3-1600), this appears to be a bit more than a normal person would use. First, there's very little benefit to DDR3-1600 over DDR3-1333. You're just not going to notice a difference. Then we have the amount. 16GB is a lot. I have 8GB now and only use it all when running hefty VMs. I don't expect any games in the next three years will use more than about 3GB of RAM, and you'll be hard pressed to stack up a collection of other apps to run at the same time that will eat up more than 5GB. In short: 8GB should be enough for anyone. (<eye roll> Except me, it seems).

Next, I'd really recommend that you strongly consider the Sniper line of RAM if you're going to be buying G.Skill RAM. There's really nothing better about the Ripjaws or Ripjaws-X, and both of them have taller heat sinks that will restrict your options for CPU cooler (as I am rather familiar with).
smallghost wrote:
Ssd: Crucial 128GB C300
A fine choice. Be sure to look around and see what sort of deals you can get. Now that the C400/m4 drives are out, a lot of retailers seem to be draining stock on the C300s. I was able to find one for $200.
smallghost wrote:
Heatsink: ??? (need advice here, is stock heatsink & fan loud?)
Heh. I'm far too familiar with this. The Hyper 212+ is rabidly popular and cost effective, though you'll want to buy a better fan with it. The S1283 and its variants also work, and the Scythe Mugen a good choice, if somewhat huge. For my build, I'm strongly considering a Thermalright MUX-120. All of these have mid-level performance (which is all you'd need for a 2400) and prices ranging from about $30-$45. More than that is overkill. Less than that and I'd start worrying about the quality.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:11 pm 
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Posts: 2877
Location: ITALY
figment wrote:
As for "aggressive" fan behavior, I've never heard anyone say that about this line before.

You may try to hear to me, figment, as I own a Seasonic X-750 and an Antec Solo. Just hearing, not believing. :wink:

figment wrote:
On the contrary, in JonnyGuru's cold test, the fan didn't even start spinning until the PSU was putting out 300W. It did the same thing in the hot test, and managed to turn in nearly identical voltage and efficiency numbers.

Our (of SPCR, I mean) good friend Oklahoma Wolf, with all the banshee screamers in his hotbox, might be not so trustful when low dB come into matter. :mrgreen:

However, to be a tad more serious and circumstantial, you may compare noise levels inside and outside the SPCR hotbox for several Seasonic-based unit (but a somewhat similar behaviour belongs to several Delta-based ones): obviously the X-650, but also the Corsair AX-850 (which shares the same platform), and even the Antec TP-750 (which is still Seasonic-based - but a lower-grade platform - and with a sort of "family feeling"). Then you may give a look to what happens when SPCR tested the Enermax Modu87+.

Taking note of the delta in noise level between the two scenarios, I think that you may easily note how more quickly and massively the Seasonic controllers react to the hotbox (with reference to the open air test of each unit), and on the contrary, with reference to that, the a bit slower and somehow more "delicate" intervention of the Enermax controller.

Personally I can report about somehow similar behaviour from my Seasonic M12D-850 (80+ Silver) and X-750 (80+ Gold) when used inside a Solo (top mounting) or inside a P182/Raven (bottom mounting).

This is what I mean for "aggressive behaviour of any Seasonic-based fan controller" (and not «..."aggressive" fan behavior...» as you improperly reported: it's not the fan, it's the built-in program).

figment wrote:
Everything I've read about this line has said that you won't hear any fan noise short of pushing it to its upper limits. Looking at what you've chosen, you're probably going to run totally fanless except in high-demand gaming.

I was under the impression that you hadn't either the X-560 and the Solo: if in case, you're so fortunate to be so sure. :wink:

IMVHO the Seasonic X-560 is a wonderful product, but in such an enclosure I still think that an Enermax Modu87+ should (could) be - more probably that not - even better suited. Or even an X-400/X-460.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:33 pm
Posts: 20
Thanks for all the input!!

PSU:
I have no luck finding Modu87+ 500W on the net. I will check out Fry's and Microcenter tomorrow on that. I prefer PSU with fan as my room gets a bit hot during summer. Is the aggressive fan controller behavior very noticeable and annoying?

CPU:
My gaming career should end in 3 years, so I should be fine, :)

Mobo:
Let me check out some MSI and Asus models then.

RAM:
I will buy 2 low-profile sticks first to check if it will fit 4 of them.

SSD:
Is the C400 out now? Let me do some research on this!

Video:
I will check out some 6850 alternatives!

Heatsink:
Agree!

Seems like I still have lots of researching to do. Thanks again for the input!!


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:37 am 
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Posts: 2877
Location: ITALY
smallghost wrote:
Is the aggressive fan controller behavior very noticeable and annoying?

It depends of the ambient condition. According to MikeC the antec Solo is similar to what happens in the SPCR hotbox test machine.
Load and temperature are the two factor that drive the PSU fan.
So you may give a look to the OTHER DATA SUMMARY table for the X-650 and the Modu87+.

It would seem that at the same load the Seasonic controller strieves to keep the temp rise within lower values than the Enermax one.
So we can argue that increasing the ambient temp MIGHT lead to early, untimely fan intervention in the Seasonic, probably due to the fact that the Enermax continuously spinning fan seems to prevent the PSU intake temp to rise too high (it edges the Seasonic by 6°C at a 200W DC load). Moreover the Enermax unit seem to tolerate far higher exhaust temp than the Seasonic one (9°C more at full load).

How much that behaviour may be annoying I'm afraid that we cannot definitely forecast: surely the Enermax get a ~1dB penalty under a 90W DC load, while it has an advantage 1-2-3-5dB respectively at 150-200-250-300W DC load level over the Seasonic (and 11dB at 400W load!). And probably you would notice it more in a hot season than in any other one.

Eventually, even if I think they're pretty the same unit (or so about), the X-560 has a 90W DC lower rating, so it might be possible that its fan controller is set up to anticipate the fan kick-in (as temp AND load are the driving factors), with reference to the tested X-650.

Due to these facts, despite the Seasonic X-560 is one of the very best PSU around, I would rather the Enermax Modu87+, or a completely fanless Seasonic X-400/X-460, for using inside a Solo.

If you worry about going fanless, read that very exhaustive SPCR article.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:17 am 
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Posts: 20
Headed to Microcenter yesterday and got most of the stuff covered. All I need now is a SSD (they sold out the C300 128GB), and a video card (still debating between 6850 vs 6950).

What I have now:
Case: Antec Solo (from last build)
Fan: Nexus case fans (from last build)
Psu: Seasonic X-660
Cpu: Intel i5-2500K
Mobo: Asus P8P67
Ram: 16GB Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600
Optical: Asus DVD Burner
Heatsink: Hyper 212+
Monitor: Samsung 2333T

Need to buy:
SSD: C300 @ newegg or wait a bit for C400?
Video: 6850 or 6950?

With what I have now, I will do some slight overclocking on the CPU.
- I pick the Hyper 212+ because it seems to be smaller when compared to the other big boys.
- I am a bit afraid the RAM won't fit, but the salesman insist that the Corsair is the only 1.5V ram for sandy bridge and that it will fit with the Hyper 212+.
- I got the Seasonic X-660 because they don't have 560, but they did give me a deal on the 660, :)
- I am looking at a (relatively) quiet stock 6950. Any suggestions?
- I can still get the 128GB C300 from Newegg now. Should I wait for C400?

Again, thanks alot for the input!!


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 Post subject: "stock" for you?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:27 pm 
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smallghost wrote:
- I am looking at a (relatively) quiet stock 6950. Any suggestions?

Is the ASUS Radeon HD 6950 DirectCU II enough stock for you?

smallghost wrote:
I can still get the 128GB C300 from Newegg now. Should I wait for C400?

First of all, AFAIK the C400 should be more expensive than the C300 (check it out).
Secondly, IIRC there are already some C400/9174-based drives in the wild: they are the Corsair Performance 3 and the Intel SSD 510.

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Most likely, 6850 is good enough. Civ and Starcraft are more dependant on CPU speeds than GPU horsepower, but it also depends on your monitor resolution which is...

SSD: I think we are about at the point where the actual performance upgrade between the c300 and c400 just might not be noticable in your use. Yeah, they have diff specs, but will you really see that? That said, I just bought the C300 rather than the C400 as I didn't see much in the specs to lure me to paying more money for a newly released product (and all of the inherent consumer beta testing that comes with it). Three plus months from now, when the firmware settles down, I might have a diff perspective.

Since you bought all of that RAM, you might look into setting up a RAM disk to capture all of the system and app temporary files. That might be a more noticable difference in performance...just guessing though as I haven't messed w/ RAM disks in a long time.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:20 pm 
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My monitor resolution is 1900x1080.

SSD: I agree. C300 should be good enough for me, coming from IDE hard drive, :)

Video Card:
- Is the Asus reference card? I would like to see if I can flash it to 6970. An after-market cooler will be added in the future when more options are available.
- If I settle on the 6850, I will probably go with the Asus. Since it has been reviewed here and it's pretty quiet.


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:52 pm 
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Video Card:
- Seems like the choice has been made for me. 6950 cards (for now) are way too long to fit in a Solo. I will just grab the Asus EAH6850 (9.75" long) then, :)

Again, thanks for all the input you have given. I greatly appreciate it. You guys rock!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:02 pm 
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Have you considered the MSI Cyclone version of the 6850?
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=61870&p=538863

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 9:50 pm 
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smallghost wrote:
6950 cards (for now) are way too long to fit in a Solo. I will just grab the Asus EAH6850 (9.75" long) then, :)

In the middle there's also the Radeon HD6870s: and the MSI R6870 Twin Frozr II OC is currently one of the quietest card (at stock) available around (to be fair, it should be 10.1" long: but as it has vertical-style power connectors, I guess it MIGHT still fit, measure twice the clearance).

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Luca


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 Post subject: Re: Advice on new build
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:24 pm 
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Thanks for the MSI Cyclone suggestion. Found out some mix reviews on the Asus EAH6850. So I grabbed a MSI version instead.

At the price point of the 6870, I think I would pay a bit more for the 6950. But those cards are too long, :(


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