It is currently Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:53 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
Hello all,

I am trying to build a *quiet/silent*, but yet powerful system (i7 2600K) in a relatively compact package (mATX/mini-tower). I am in the US. While I've replaced most components in a computer over the years, this will be my first "from scratch built" :)

I am not a gamer, so the purpose of the system is to mostly run number crunching programs (most of them under a VM) in additition to doing the usual PC work under Win7 (MS Office/Web stuff) and some development work.

Based on online research I have the following items in mind for a quiet/silent system:

Case: Antec mini P180 (if I can't find this, can anyone suggest a good alternative?)

CPU: i7 2600K

Motherboad: ASUS P8P67-M PRO

RAM: RAM G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBXL

CPU Cooler: CPU Cooler CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (supposed to be quiet)

PSU: SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

(or would the SeaSonic X Series X650 suffice assuming it's just as good?)

Video card: ??? Again, not a gamer, I was thinking perhaps something fanless, however I don't want to end up with a slouch of a video card that'll sit on top of a powerfull system if I should decide to do some visualizations or check out a game. A friend suggested this card:

EVGA 01G-P3-1450-TR GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card

Is this a quiet card? Are there other alternatives I should consider? (NVIDIA because I'm interested in CUDA). I currently have 2 identical monitors running at 1280 x 1024 .. hope to move to larger monitors and resolution down the line

Recommendation for quiet fast 1TB HDD?

I hope this configuration makes some sense for a quiet/silent type system, if anyone sees a major mistake here, I would appreciate a heads-up.

Thank you very much for your comments/suggestions.


ps: What is the consensus on getting an SSD for installing the OS (Win 7) and some more frequently used program (like MS Office, and the Oracle Virtualbox VM software (not that big), Chrome browser, and my tiny Windows version of Emacs) .. do you think that would fit on 60 GB and noticably speed up booting and starting programs?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 3:10 am
Posts: 100
Location: Iceland
Go SSD for windows and programs, you will never regret that money.

my windows folder is about 20GB. Just turn off unnecessary windows stuff that takes up space and you're good.

_________________
1) i5 2500K@4.6GHz w/Silver Arrow, 8GB DDR3, Intel 120GB SSD, GTX 580 w/Shaman, Seasonic X-750, ASRock P67 Pro3, BenQ 23.6" 120Hz LED.
2) E8400@4GHz w/Megahelem, 8GB DDR2, 6 HDDs for ~4TB, 2x GTX 8800 SLI, Seasonic X-750, MSI P6N SLI Platinum, Samsung 22" LCD.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
Double check to make sure that CPU: i7 2600K runs VM. I seem to recollect that the K series does not.

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Last edited by ces on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
esmail wrote:
(or would the SeaSonic X Series X650 suffice assuming it's just as good?)
Yes either will do fine.

esmail wrote:
CPU Cooler: CPU Cooler CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (supposed to be quiet)
Get the SPCR top ranked Noctua downdraft cooler.

esmail wrote:
Video card: ??? Again, not a gamer, I was thinking perhaps something fanless, however I don't want to end up with a slouch of a video card that'll sit on top of a powerfull system if I should decide to do some visualizations or check out a game.
Take a look at this one:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=62073

esmail wrote:
What is the consensus on getting an SSD for installing the OS (Win 7) and some more frequently used program (like MS Office, and the Oracle Virtualbox VM software (not that big), Chrome browser, and my tiny Windows version of Emacs) .. do you think that would fit on 60 GB and noticably speed up booting and starting programs?
Just do it. You won't be able to go back. Get a 120G SSD and use 60G of it for over provisioning and the other 60G for you OS and applications.

See:
viewtopic.php?p=540798#p540798

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 135
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
esmail wrote:
I am trying to build a *quiet/silent*, but yet powerful system (i7 2600K) in a relatively compact package (mATX/mini-tower). I am in the US. While I've replaced most components in a computer over the years, this will be my first "from scratch built" :)


Why do you need the compact package?
(Larger and heavier cases usually help stop more noise.)

esmail wrote:
I am not a gamer, so the purpose of the system is to mostly run number crunching programs (most of them under a VM) in additition to doing the usual PC work under Win7 (MS Office/Web stuff) and some development work.


The first thing you should think about is your workload. I expect that you need more IO Ops then you need graphics power. You should avoid a graphics card, and use that money to get an SSD.

The second thing to decide is how quiet your system really needs to be. Giving up 20% of your speed can cut your noise and your total price by a lot.

esmail wrote:
CPU: i7 2600K


The "K" over-clocking processors have some of the vitalization features disabled. The "K" series lacks VT-d and TXT features.

They also have double the integrated graphics execution units of the non-"K" processors. This leads to about 40% better performance.

esmail wrote:


Water cooling usually leads to more noise then air cooling. This is because you have to cool the water with a fan, and you still have move the water with a pump. More components that move means more possible sources of noise.

If you have a full-width case, you should be able to fit any number of 120mm-fan-based coolers. I like the Xigmatek Gaia or the Noctura NH-C12P or C14, but there are many that are cheap and quiet.

It is trendy to get a fan-less, or one of these semi-fan-less (fan on demand?) power supplies. I would save $50 and get a re-badged Seasonic from a distributor like Corsair or XFX. See the power supply reviews at hardwaresecrets.com to find a cheaper unit.

While others want the power supply to have its own intake/output of case air, I view the power supply at a big part of ventilating the case. A good power supply usually comes with a well-controlled high-powered fan.

esmail wrote:
Video card: ??? Again, not a gamer, I was thinking perhaps something fanless, however I don't want to end up with a slouch of a video card that'll sit on top of a powerfull system if I should decide to do some visualizations or check out a game.

Is this a quiet card? Are there other alternatives I should consider? (NVIDIA because I'm interested in CUDA). I currently have 2 identical monitors running at 1280 x 1024 .. hope to move to larger monitors and resolution down the line


No video card = No video card noise

You should use integrated graphics. If you do not have a current use for CUDA, you could just buy a card when you really need one.

Are these CRT or LCD monitors? (Dual analog monitors will not work with integrated.)

Many motherboards have dual graphics out for the integrated graphics. They usually have a HDMI and a DVI. You should be able to get adapter cables for any digital monitors.

If you are willing to play your games at 720p or 1024x768, you can play some games on the integrated graphics.

esmail wrote:
Recommendation for quiet fast 1TB HDD?


Get a "Green/Eco" drive to have it be quiet. I like Samsung and Western Digital drives for my computers.


esmail wrote:
ps: What is the consensus on getting an SSD for installing the OS (Win 7) and some more frequently used program (like MS Office, and the Oracle Virtualbox VM software (not that big), Chrome browser, and my tiny Windows version of Emacs) .. do you think that would fit on 60 GB and noticably speed up booting and starting programs?


From experience, I can tell you that you will want 128 GB or more to run windows and your programs without constant work. Using a 64 GB or smaller SSD means that you are always looking at the drive status and cleaning up files.

The SSD will outlast any component in your system. Devote a lot of your money to the SSD. I would get an Intel 320 300GB version for $550. It is not the fastest, but it will have a 5-year+ lifespan, no matter what you throw at it.

If out cut out the video card, and cut down the power supply. You can save $170 to buy a bigger SSD.

_________________
Q9300 @ 3.0 (7.5 x 400 fsb) w/ Noctura NH-C12P (top-down 120 mm cooler, "blue" speed)
On: Gigabyte EP45-UD3P w/ SAPPHIRE 100283-3L Radeon HD 5770 1GB (@ 20% fan speed)
In: NZXT WHISPER w/ Lian Li BS03 120mm fan duct (required drilling thick steel)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
Deucal wrote:
Go SSD for windows and programs, you will never regret that money.

my windows folder is about 20GB. Just turn off unnecessary windows stuff that takes up space and you're good.


Yes, I think I will .. now I just have to decide on the size .. maybe around 60-100GB .. that way I could install all of my program (certainly most of them) on the SSD.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
ces wrote:
Double check to make sure that CPU: i7 2600K runs VM. I seem to recollect that the K series does not.


Hi,

I am a bit confused by this comment, perhaps we are referring to different things?

I am talking about a Virtual Machine that emulates another OS under the host OS (in this case my Windows 7 install). I have used the Oracle (formerly Sun) VirtualBox software (http://www.virtualbox.org/) w/o problems under a variety of systems, it seems if the host OS system can run, then this software should work too. Am I missing something here or are we talking about different things?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
Hi again,

re the VM issue you raised, I did a google search and I see what you are referring to, thanks for pointing that out, I totally hadn't heard of this and I will look into it. Not quite 100% of the implications for me/my work if I would run a Linux guest OS under a 64bit Win 7 (host) installation.

ces wrote:
esmail wrote:
CPU Cooler: CPU Cooler CORSAIR CWCH60 Hydro Series H60 High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler (supposed to be quiet)
Get the SPCR top ranked Noctua downdraft cooler.
Wow .. that looks huge ..

ces wrote:
Take a look at this one: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=62073
wow .. another behemoth .. how do the motherboards/components cope with all these heavy things hanging off sideways .. it would be one thing if the motherboards were mounted horizontally like in the old typical desktop cases, but vertically in towers, I'd worry about stuff falling off or breaking?

ces wrote:
esmail wrote:
What is the consensus on getting an SSD for installing the OS (Win 7) and some more frequently used programs
Just do it. You won't be able to go back. Get a 120G SSD and use 60G of it for over provisioning and the other 60G for you OS and applications.
Agreed ..

Thanks for taking the time to post all of this, much appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
Why do you need the compact package? (Larger and heavier cases usually help stop more noise.)

Two reasons, one practical (I have moved a lot, smaller is nicer) and one aesthetic, I don't want to have a huge box dominate my room (goes against my minimalist tendencies :)

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
The first thing you should think about is your workload. I expect that you need more IO Ops then you need graphics power. You should avoid a graphics card, and use that money to get an SSD.

The "K" over-clocking processors have some of the vitalization features disabled. The "K" series lacks VT-d and TXT features.
Yes, I have to thank ces above, and you for making me aware of this. I didn't know that, and I have been reading about this this evening. I'm not quite sure how important this will be with regard to Oracle's VirtualBox VM software, so now I am not sure if the 2600K is necessarily a better choice than the 2600 and I may go with the 2600 instead.

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
They also have double the integrated graphics execution units of the non-"K" processors. This leads to about 40% better performance.
I may have this wrong, but I thought the K processor had the more advanced HD 3000 integrated graphics vs HD 2000 on the non-K CPU?

Thanks for your comments re cooling and the specific recommendations for the fans in lieu of the H60, I will look into this.

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
No video card = No video card noise

Can't argue with that line of reasoning :-) ... but that would require my using a different motherboard, ie one with the H67 chipset correct? Or use a board with the Z68 (??) chipset? I see more for me to investigate.

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
You should use integrated graphics. If you do not have a current use for CUDA, you could just buy a card when you really need one.

Yes, I can see that as a good approach, if I am unhappy with the performance of the graphics, I can always spring for a dedicated card later.

Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
Are these CRT or LCD monitors? (Dual analog monitors will not work with integrated.)

At this point two identical 19" Dell LCD (both capable of VGA and DVI inputs).

Thanks for the recommendation re the HDD, I plan to use it as storage for data, while I definitely will get a SSD to install my OS and frequently used programs, probably in the 100GB region.

I really appreciate you having taken the time to give me such detailed and informative feedback.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 135
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
esmail wrote:
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
The "K" over-clocking processors have some of the vitalization features disabled. The "K" series lacks VT-d and TXT features.
Yes, I have to thank ces above, and you for making me aware of this. I didn't know that, and I have been reading about this this evening. I'm not quite sure how important this will be with regard to Oracle's VirtualBox VM software, so now I am not sure if the 2600K is necessarily a better choice than the 2600 and I may go with the 2600 instead.


Back in 2007, some felt that the software translation is faster then early implementations of VT-x. Now Intel's implementation has become faster then software, but VT-x is not necessary for Virtualbox.

If you want to use Microsoft's VirtualPC or Microsoft's XP mode, you need VT-x (non-"K").

esmail wrote:
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
They also have double the integrated graphics execution units of the non-"K" processors. This leads to about 40% better performance.
I may have this wrong, but I thought the K processor had the more advanced HD 3000 integrated graphics vs HD 2000 on the non-K CPU?


Yes, the Intel HD 2000 has 6 execution units and the Intel HD 3000 has 12 execution units. As the bandwidth available has not changed, the performance only improves by 30-70%.

esmail wrote:
Thanks for your comments re cooling and the specific recommendations for the fans in lieu of the H60, I will look into this.


If you are worried about the weight of heatsinks (or want to save money), you can get the Xigmatek Loki. It is a 92mm cooler, so it is smaller then the 120mm coolers. Reviews claim that it is just as quiet as the 120mm coolers, so it saves you money and space without adding noise.

The Loki only weights 330 grams. This is under the Intel recommended limit of 450 grams. Any heatsink that weights over 450 grams should be removed from the computer before you ship the computer.

esmail wrote:
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
No video card = No video card noise
Can't argue with that line of reasoning :-) ... but that would require my using a different motherboard, ie one with the H67 chipset correct? Or use a board with the Z68 (??) chipset? I see more for me to investigate.


You should get the Z68 or the H67 so you can use the graphics. You will need a DVI-to-HDMI cable if you want to use both monitors. (I assume that you have a DVI-to-DVI cable.)

Finally:
Get the biggest Micron/Crucial/Intel SSD you can afford!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Posts: 3395
Location: US
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
If you are worried about the weight of heatsinks (or want to save money), you can get the Xigmatek Loki. It is a 92mm cooler, so it is smaller then the 120mm coolers. Reviews claim that it is just as quiet as the 120mm coolers, so it saves you money and space without adding noise.
Noctua also has a nice 92mm tower. I believe it is a bit better but it does cost more.

_________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
ces wrote:
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
If you are worried about the weight of heatsinks (or want to save money), you can get the Xigmatek Loki. It is a 92mm cooler, so it is smaller then the 120mm coolers. Reviews claim that it is just as quiet as the 120mm coolers, so it saves you money and space without adding noise.
Noctua also has a nice 92mm tower. I believe it is a bit better but it does cost more.


Thanks .. right now I'm stuck on the 2600 w/ VT-d and the 2600K w/o VT-d issue/decision :-) ... and whether this would even matter. Plus I am not sure many motherboards/BIOS/Chipsets(??) support this feature yet .. at least the original mATX ASUS motherboard I was hoping to get doesn't mention it in its manual.

Re the CPU cooler, I suppose I could see how the stock fan does and if it's too noisy replace it with one of the suggestion I have gotten here.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:24 am
Posts: 9
Dr. Jim Pomatter wrote:
More great advice


Thanks .. I've noted all.

Once I figure out the 2600 vs 2600K issue (and what motherboards support VT-d, and whether this would really matter in terms of performance) I'll go on a spending spree - but it seems I have some more research left to do before then.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Powerful system in small'ish package and quiet/silent
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:46 am
Posts: 135
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
esmail wrote:
Once I figure out the 2600 vs 2600K issue (and what motherboards support VT-d, and whether this would really matter in terms of performance) I'll go on a spending spree - but it seems I have some more research left to do before then.


One more option just came out a few weeks ago: Core i5-2405S. It has the better graphics (Intel HD 3000), and it has the one important virtualization instruction (VT-x). At Newegg, it costs the same as the i5-2500,.

Compared to the i5-2500, the i5-2405S uses 30 fewer watts (65 watts rather then 95 watts). It is also about 600 mhz slower. It also does not have VT-d or VT-TXT tech. These virtualization instructions are only used by servers, and Intel does not want low-watt desktop chips to hurt its server-chip sales.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group