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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Posts: 35
Location: hu
Quote:
Zyrobs, how do you rate the r3 vs the 183?


Same value/dollar ratio on both, but since the P183 costs much more, it has a much higher value. In my opinion.

The R3 is like a normal average case, loaded with extras everywhere. That's what you should expect.
The P183 is like a tank, it's built to be a solid, isolated brick with no building flaws (my R3 has a bunch), but you can still easily access all your stuff.

I don't know how else to describe it. The air filters are way easier to clean (single removable door on the P183, versus disassembling the entire fan holder on the R3). 5.25 slots are easier to install with the rail design. The special side panels on the p183 provide better isolation (and are also more aesthetically pleasing - R3 is just a piece of steel with foam glued on it). And because of the dual chamber design, there is a smaller area for the main components - so there is less air to move to cool that space. That's probably why the R3 needs all fans installed on full go to match the cooling of other, performance orientated cases. Also, the chamber separator is also padded out with some soft material, to isolate the two chambers better, and to seal the whole case more tightly, and the separated compartments allow for VERY smart cable management. Give it some effort and you can get the insides look very clean and pretty.

In my respectably powerful machine, with 6-7 total fans (all speed controller), I get sufficiently low temperatures and only the HDDs make noise. I haven't tried moving the setup into the R3 to compare temps/noise, and I probably won't because I'm biased towards the P183. I just like the whole design better, internals and externals both. The R3 just... doesn't feel that special.

On that note the P183 doesn't have proper USB3 panels, or SSD holders. But you can use the floppy slot for either, tuck in a SSD there or a USB3 front panel (some motherboards even come with one). I have a bunch of cables tucked into that slow anyway, and they lock the SSD drive in place safely enough.

I can't say for sure how the R3 stacks versus the P280, but based on the pictures of the P280, I'd say the R3 would perform better, especially in contrast to the price. The power button placement looks especially dumb on the P280...


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 7:51 pm
Posts: 69
Location: Tulsa, OK
Quote:
The power button placement looks especially dumb on the P280...


The power button was moved to the top of the case specifically in response to complaints about having to open the door in previous P18x cases to turn on the machine.

Which doesn't mean you can't hate it, but it wasn't a random decision. My computer is to my right on the floor, so this will actually make it easier for me, personally, though it never bothered me and certainly had no bearing on going with the P280.

Just got my damping materials and hope to have my machine moved to the P280 this weekend. We'll see how it fares against my beloved (but rather bedraggled) P180.


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Posts: 218
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Fallsroad wrote:
The power button was moved to the top of the case specifically in response to complaints about having to open the door in previous P18x cases to turn on the machine.
Those who need to have the power button behind a locked door can still get a p183.


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:11 am 
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Posts: 3
Thanks zyrobs for the detailed reply.

Is just that that antec a bit dated and I will likely use more than 3 HDDs and a long graphics card which is unlikely to fit without taking out HDDs.

It's interesting you say that the R3 will need lots of fans but then you say you have 6-7 fans in the antec too?

The great positive for me with the R3 is the ability to put a quiet 140mm bottom intake fan in. The antecs don't allow this so you're left with small 120mm fans and a top fans/vents allowing/creating noise out.

It's a shame the p280 doesn't seem as good as the R3, but as I say it does seem to beat the R3 on temps?

I'm interested I what you say about smaller volume. I'm not sure whether a smaller volume is easier to cool or a larger one. A smaller volume means less air to shift, but then doesn't it also mean there's less air to soak up the heat in the first place ? I.e. If you have a larger volume there's more air so more heat can be accommodated for.? I'm not sure about this


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:06 am 
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Posts: 370
Samion wrote:
I'm interested I what you say about smaller volume. I'm not sure whether a smaller volume is easier to cool or a larger one. A smaller volume means less air to shift, but then doesn't it also mean there's less air to soak up the heat in the first place ? I.e. If you have a larger volume there's more air so more heat can be accommodated for.? I'm not sure about this

It's about air flow, not air volume, is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:15 am 
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Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Samion wrote:
A smaller volume means less air to shift, but then doesn't it also mean there's less air to soak up the heat in the first place ? I.e. If you have a larger volume there's more air so more heat can be accommodated for.? I'm not sure about this
I think that it's about moving a quantity of air through the places where it is needed and grabbing the heat so that it can be transported the the outside of the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:27 am 
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Volume of air in a case.... this is an interesting issue.

Some different ways to think about it, but one not mentioned here is that with a bigger case, it takes longer for the avg air temp in the case to heat up, given the same heat load. And once it reaches the same temp as the air in a smaller case, it probably takes longer -- with the same airflow -- to lower the avg temp by the same amount. In other words, a bigger case would tend to add hysteresis to temperature changes.

Also, in a bigger case, you can have bigger pockets inside where very little air movement occurs. This is much less likely in a smaller case.

There is probably some ideal noise/cooling airflow volume for each set of hardware in a given case size. Interesting to theorize about but probably only practical to reach by trial and error.

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 Post subject: Re: Antec P280: Performance One Refresh
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Thought I'd add a picture to these scenarios.

A small case is more restrictive for airflow as stuff is crammed in there. Smaller the case and more stuff inside increases restriction. Larger case has less restrictions to airflow. For a given dB level, the larger case can provide more cfm through it than the smaller case.

As Mike mentioned, larger case probably has more hysteresis to temp than a small case due to volume/mass.

So, you might see something like this:
Image

For a given set of components and equal dBA:
- the larger case might idle a little cooler. When hit with a load, the larger case's air temp will take longer to get to a stable load temp and it'll run cooler than the smaller case. When returning to idle, it'll take longer to get to idle temp than the smaller case.
- Obviously, the disparity between smaller/larger case temps will grow bigger with higher power loads and smaller with lower power loads.

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