Hey guys, I'm hoping to build a very-quiet/near-silent system for office multi-tasking (Firefox, Outlook, Excel - nothing complex) and watching 1080p video and Blu-rays. What do you think of the following? Prices from PCCG Australia, which is where I'll be purchasing from.

Feel free to rip into it.
http://pccasegear.com/

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Loose budget of $1000

CPU/mobo/GPU:
Asus E45M1-I DELUXE mITX motherboard - $229
- not sure whether this will be snappy enough for my Firefox/Outlook/Word multi-tasking, as well as 1080p video.

RAM:
G.Skill Ripjaws F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 - $59

SDD:
Crucial M4 64gb - $139

Data HDD:
WD Green 1TB - $105

Case:
Undecided - $200 budget
- want dust filters, front 120mm+ fan slot, a sealed design (few openings/fan grills), noise-dampening preferred
- considering Solo II, Silverstone TJ08, Fractal Define Mini, CM Sileo 500...

Case fans:
Noctua NF-S12B FLX 120mm - $26

PSU:
Seasonic X-400 Fanless Gold 400w - $169

Blu-ray Drive:
LG CH12LS28 12X BD-R Blu-ray DVD Combo Drive - $65
- do Blu-ray drive models differ significantly in noise output?

+ Windows 7, however much that'll cost

Why are you choosing a fanless board and then equipping it with fans?
If you want to spend so much money and to use fans, you might as well get a real CPU!

Your RAM and SSD are obscenely overkill compared to your CPU as well as your stated requirements.

Zotac has a better Zacate board than Asus but it's a mITX. Your case is bigger than it needs to be anyway.
It seems the competing Atoms promised months ago are finally becoming available by the way. The state of the drivers is another issue however.

If you've got no fans, your data HDD is going to be loud and may overheat.
If you save money on the SSD for instance, you could afford a quiet 2.5'' which will hopefully be less sensitive to temperatures and will not require fancy mounting. Or at least choose a low-power 3.5''! Depending on how you want to use it, you could also replace your internal spinning drive with a USB/eSATA drive or even a NAS.

A fanless PSU is fine. A PSU with a fin which doesn't spin would be just as good. See SPCR's recommended components for suggestions.

Actually, the top mount fits a fanless PSU quite well. SPCR's own fanless PSU guide uses the Antec Solo II. You can choose the Cooler Master Silent Pro M (quiet according to SPCR review) for 112 $ or the Enermax NAXN 600W 80+ (Enermax usually makes very quiet PSU's, though I'm not entirely sure about this particular model), but the Seasonic X-400 is really a safe (and a great) bet. I'd recommend the Seasonic.

I'd say the two most important features of the Solo II is the HDD mount and the excellent stock fan. It has some obvious flaws, for example the lack of room behind the mo-bo for cable routing. You might consider a Fractal Design Defini Mini which has a very elegant design, USB 3.0, room behind mo-bo tray, rubber grommets for reducing HD vibrations, upper HD-cage is removable, good stock fans and a fan controller.

About the Noctua fans, I doubt that they are even necessary. Your system will most likely not dissipate much heat, and it would be quite paradoxal if you bought two additional fans to compensate for running the CPU passive. I'd rather have one fan cooling the CPU than having one (or two) fans as intake fans since the CPU fan will be much closer to the CPU and therefore perform much better. You could, for example, buy a Sandy Bridge Pentium fan and a motherboard which would cost approx. the same, dissipate a bit more heat, and perform quite better, while the GPU might perform a bit worse, though easily capable of running HD video and Blu-ray. For the 52 $ you had intended to spend on the Noctua fans you could easily buy a decent CPU heatsink with a very quiet fan. For example a Cooler Master Hyper TX3 (25 $) and a 92 mm Arctic Cooling PWM fan (9,5 $, those CM stock fans usually have poor acoustics) or a 92 mm Scythe Slipstream Slim (15 $).
You could also just be content with one stock case fan to cool the passive CPU+GPU. I'd actually say that it would be sufficient. There's no other sources of heat except for the HD, but modern HD's don't dissipate much heat.

I agree with Hfat, performance-RAM makes no sense for such a built and you would most likely not feel any difference. The SSD should make the system faster than light. and 120 GB is not really overkill if you need all the performance, and even a low-power system becomes faster with an SSD. My laptop (Core 2 duo SU4100, 1.3 GHz) uses a Crucial M4 64 GB and it's leaps and bounds ahead of any similar laptops. It also boots things much quicker than many other system, simply because of the SSD. I definitely recommend the SSD!

Why not buy a Western Digital Green 1 TB for 105 $? the Green series of WD is known for being practically silent according to recent SPCR reviews. Seagate HD's have not showed the same amount of "silence" consistently in the SPCR reviews. And HD noise is noticeable in an otherwise quiet built. Before my case fans were undervolted enough, I couldn't never hear my suspended WD Green 500 GB (quite some years old now). But now, when all the other components are virtually silent, I can easily hear the harddisk airborne noise, and the noises are annoying compared to constant whooshing from fans.

Hope this was helpful.

I figured the SSD would vastly improve responsiveness without adding noise. The RAM is only $10 more than the cheapest lower-clocked version.

Would my processor be bottlenecking the system noticeably, and would it matter, given my uses? If not, what would be a faster processor/motherboard/graphics combo that would not compromise noise much? Keep in mind my maximum usage will be Firefox with ~10 tabs open, a basic Excel spreadsheet or two, Word, and Outlook email. I'll also watch 1080p Blu-rays.



What's the particular model? Could an mITX board fit in the Solo II?

I'll stick to one case fan. Easy enough to add another if it's not.

I'm a bit hesitant about the Sandy Bridge Intels due to reports of the 23fps frame-skipping issue.


Is the WD Green 5400rpm? I will store 1080p video and mp3/FLAC music files on it. As long as a WD Green can make sure they are played without lag, I'll switch to it over the Seagate. I am a little hesitant -- I use a Samsung Ecogreen F2 as OS drive on current computer, and it stutters whenever I play video/music, sometimes even in general office use!

Whatever HDD I get will be suspended in the Solo II anyway...

Thanks to you both for your replies, very informative

Obviously you'd benefit from the SSD. But you'd benefit equally from a much cheaper model. Unless you pick a lemon (won't happen if you pick an Intel or a Crucial for instance), differences in SSD performance won't matter.
The RAM clock is utterly irrelevant. The main point is that you have way too much if it.


Since you're not gaming, the obvious choice would be Sandy Bridge. If you don't like Intel graphics, you've got AMD's Llano but the CPU part is inferior to Intel's.


A better update might have been released since but look here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4499/fusi ... usion350ae
I don't understand the Solo for a Zacate build. If you want to use a fancy case and a fancy power supply that are designed to accomodate much better parts, why waste them on Zacate?

Honestly with your requirements I'd pick a small low-power barebone with a total build cost more or less 50% of yours. Much faster to build as well.


The drive is fine. That's concurrent access for you. You'll have this problem with any hard drive with crappy software and/or configuration.
The drive's performance is so much better than you need for video and music that drive performance isn't close to being an issue. With your SSD dedicated to your OS and programs, you're much less likely to run into concurrent access issues. Just be smart if your OS is dumb and don't try to copy several large files at the same time...

I have to agree with HFat. If I were to build a zacate pc it would be in a mini itx case, powered by a pico psu. The next step up in performance is either a llano or a sandy bridge motherboard. In this case, the Solo II and Seasonic psu are more reasonable choices but still a little overkill (full atx and a 400watt psu for a system with no dedicated gpu that will max @ 100-120 watts).

Now, I would normally pick a Sandy Bridge motherboard and cpu but in your case A Llano sytem would make sense. I trust the igp in Llano a little more when it comes to properly supporting most video codecs. Flash acceleration is also very important now that most sites are full of flash adds and menus (adblock will help, but it won`t remove all ads all the time) and again, I trust the gpu in Llano a little more in this regard.

Yes, it is 5400 rpm. And I seriously doubt that a WD Green would not be up for the task of playing high-def video. You shouldn't be hesitant on doing this. Running an OS can be quite a difficult for slow-spinning HD since there are a lot of random and small size reads/writes. The workload of watching a high-def video is more suitable for a HD.

I have a few 5400 drives. never a problem with streaming any HD content for me here.
im bummed to see most 5400 drives being cut from oems product lines.

Seriously appreciating your advice, guys

--- Moving from Seagate Barracuda 1TB to the WD Green 1TB for $105 (-$4).
--- Dropping from Crucial M4 128gb ($219) down to its 64gb version ($139).

Would a move up from the Asus E53M1-I Deluxe to the Asus E45M1-I Deluxe (+$15) improve performance noticeably and somewhat balance the lopsided specs? It keeps the same TDP as well as the big passive heatsink. I'd like to go as far up the performance scale as I can while keeping passive with just the one case fan.

Hopefully the board upgrade I mentioned above will suffice. If not, what'd be a suitable Llano? Again, I'm hesitant about Intel due to 23fps issue...

The Zotac Fusion-ITX Wifi this review mentions seems to be an option. Appears to be slightly less power-hungry and runs slightly cooler than the E35M1-Deluxe. The Zotac only accepts SO-DIMM memory, but I don't know if that will limit my RAM choice significantly.

Do you reckon dropping down to 2x2gb would see no drop in performance? I have a habit of opening a boatload of Firefox tabs/windows. Right now, on my current computer (4gb RAM, 32bit OS though), Firefox often crashes because I've got 4 windows open, each with 10+ tabs. Is this an issue due to lack of RAM or something else?

Still not sure about the case. Smaller case might theoretically mean more focussed airflow, but, along with perhaps cheaper prices, that's the only advantage I can see.

Case features I'm looking for, [1] being most important, [6] being least important:

[1] easily removeable dust filters
[2] 120mm (or bigger) fan slot at front
[3] as few fan grills as possible; preferably just one at front and one at back
[4] separate PSU compartment and placement at bottom (preferred, not essential)
[5] wall damping/HDD suspension (would be nice, but can be DIY'ed, I guess)
[6] space behind motherboard for cabling (preferred, not essential; Solo lacks this)

Am considering the Solo II, Silverstone TJ08, Fractal Design Define Mini, CM Sileo 500, NZXT H2...still sorting through, recommendations would be great. I'm prepared to push the case budget above the $150 if it means getting most of these features, especially dust filters, which will reduce hassle in the long run.

I'll try to explain one last time: you don't need such a case, such a PSU or these fans to run a Zacate. The Zotac Zacate doesn't need any fans. I don't mean it doesn't need a fan on its heatsink: it doesn't need any fans anywhere in the computer. And it runs on dinky PSUs like the ones Morex and Antec bundle with their mITX cases. Zacate is designed to be used in very small or very low budget computers.
The point of all the fancy gear you want to use is to silence a powerful computer. Zacate doesn't need that because it's not powerful.


I reckon 4G is too much RAM and I also reckon you should use a single 4G stick of you want 4G. I run dozens tabs on 1G comfortably every day (the browser typically uses 256M) and 1G sticks is what I typically use when building computers. And Firefox doesn't crash.
But forget my opinion or anyone else's because we're not running the same software or accessing the same data. Just look at how much RAM Firefox is using on *your* computer. Take RAM away or add RAM by allocating it to other programs and closing them and see how Firefox reacts. Then you'll know for sure how much RAM would be useful in your case.

I don`t think you`ll need any more for internet and office apps. By the way, zacate has a single memory channel, so a single 4 gb stick will do.

Or, you could open the Task Manager (ctrl + alt + del) and see how much RAM Firefox consumes during your regular usage. I'd recommend at least 4 GB for every new built, especially since RAM is so cheap nowadays. Also, 1 stick of 4 GB is preferable IMO since you'll have the opportunity to upgrade your system in the future.



"Smaller case might mean more focussed airflow..." I think so too, though I'm not entirely sure it has been proven. But for a system like yours I think a regular ATX case is really a waste of space. Of the mentionned case I'd pick the Define Mini or the Solo II. The TJ08 responds badly to HD vibration, the Sileo 500 is too budget-minded (no dustfilter, no room behind mo-bo tray, poor construction, poor HD mounting system, easy to scratch surface, ticking noises from stock fan, difficult to mount front fan. I've had this case before and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone). The NZXT H2 has a big interior so it wouldn't have enough focussed airflow. It's built-in fancontroller also doesn't lower the noise level for the fans enough ( I had to undervolt the stock fans further in order to have an acceptable noise level).

That only gets you an upper bound... at best. Some of that is cache.

I think I'm gonna take a step up from the E45M1-Deluxe. I want some extra performance for versatility and peace of mind. How about something like the AMD A6 3500 Triple Core Fusion ($85) with built in HD6530D and 65w TDP. Maybe with the ASRock A75M-HVS motherboard ($75) or similar? Maybe a mobo with a nice fat heatsink? Just putting it out there.

I'm actually liking the Silverstone TJ-08 and its 180mm fan at the moment. Regarding its HDD vibration, I'll probably DIY suspend the HDD. The Solo's lack of cabling space is slightly harder to work around. Haven't read much about the Define Mini yet. HFat, if you could recommend some smaller case, I'm all ears. Number one priority is easily-removeable dust filters, though. Not sure how well one can DIY good dust filters.

I'm gonna hit the hay now but I'll be back in about 8 hours hopefully. Cheers again, guys

Well, if you can afford it. How does the total cost of the AMD A6 compare to Asus E45M1-I Deluxe?

However, under all circumstances I'd recommend an ASUS however because of the FanXpert application inside the ASUS Ai Suite. It is simply marvelous! The CPU PWM fan can bo controlled to as low as 10 % (or 20%, don't really remember). It even kickstarts the fan to circumvent the starting voltage of fans. That, plus a PWM fan from Scythe is absolute awesome.

It's actually cheaper. A6-3500 ($85) + A75M-HVS ($75) = $160, compared to $230 for the E45M1. If it gets too noisy, though, I'd have to drop some extra $$$ to buy a big heatsink and run passive.

Does indeed sound very awesome. So this feature is on all current-gen Asus mobo's? I'll start looking.

Say I got a SilverStone Temjin TJ08-E with 180mm fan in front, would I be able to run the 180mm at say 20%? Might cool the whole thing by itself, and be whisper quiet!

It sounds good so far. A Llano machine is a good fit for the silverstone case since the later is very good at cooling the cpu. A tower cooler would work great in the tj 08 as long as it be installed facing the general direction of airflow.

SPCR's review of the Silverstone TJ-08 says stock fan's minimum 700rpm setting is a tad loud. However, the TJ-08's 180mm fan is not PWM, so cannot be controlled by Asus' FanXpert.What kind of fan controller (with easy manual controls out front) could I add to bring the 180mm fan below 500rpm?

FanXpert does allow fan controlling of 3-pin fans, but the minimum is somewhere around 50 %. That's still 6 V. In comparison, the lowest fan setting SPCR used was 9 V. But be aware of the starting voltage, however. I could imagine that a fan with such a great mass would have difficulty starting at a low voltage.

The fan AP181 can spin very low, when i was doing some testing with it, i think was close to 300rpm. In my case i was not able to lower it via bios, but i seen a post where a user with more recent bios, i believe 0902, was able lower the rpms to 600rpm, mine is running at that but with zalman fanmate 2, with 0403 bios you cant lower the AP181, but would be worth to check since the new Gene Z are coming with the newer bios.

If the motherboard is unable to set fan speed to your liking you could manually adjust it using a fan mate like Abula. Or you could get a 3pin to 4pin pwm converter (this will essentially turn a 3pin fan into pwm). Yet another solution would be to get the Silverstone ps 07 case instead. It`s almost identical to the tj 08 but has a different face and 2 x 12cm intake fans instead of the single 18cm one.

Thanks again guys for the help. I've opted fro the Solo II, still all your advice on fan control will no doubt come in handy. Here is the complete build, will all these parts be compatible with each other and physically fit together inside the Solo II?

AMD A6 3500
Thermalright HR-02 Macho CPU Cooler
ASRock A75 Pro4
G.Skill Ripjaws F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3
Crucial M4 64gb
Western Digital Green 1TB WD10EARX
Antec Solo II
Seasonic X-400 Fanless
LG CH12LS28 12X Blu-ray Drive

It should all fit. I was worried that the Thermalright HR-02 would be too tall, but according to the SPCR review, the Solo II can handle CPU heatsinks with a height of 17,4 cm. That's quite a lot.