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 Post subject: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX mobo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Does anyone know of a currently available Socket P or Socket LGA775 Mini-DTX motherboard? I know DFI made one and Zotac makes an Iopn based one that is crap but are there any other Mini-DTX boards out there?

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Location: ontario
a quick search on newegg yielded a few, though theres only one socket p if it's that important to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:11 am 
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fumino wrote:
a quick search on newegg yielded a few, though theres only one socket p if it's that important to you.


None of those are Mini-DTX

Mini-DTX has 2 expansion slots whereas ITX has but one. Pico-ITX has none.

I am looking for an actual Mini-DTX motherboard to replace the motherboard in my AOpen MP915-M.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:20 pm 
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Location: ontario
sorry, assumed that you simply typo'd.

mini-dtx doesnt really get much love, i doubt there will be any new boards available for those sockets either.... can i ask why you need the two expansion slots? just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:17 pm 
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Zotac and DFI that's it.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:17 pm 
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Location: Rockford, IL ( USA )
One slot for GFX and was hoping for a board with a Pci-E x1 as well for a usb 3.0 card.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:55 am 
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There are almost no Intel based DTX boards out there (DTX was an AMD sponsored form factor). My solution was to order a mini-PCIe to PCIe 1x adapter and use it with the Zotac H55-ITX USB3 board. That will give me the two slots and USB 3. The build still in progress and the solution untested. The adapters I bought consist of a MiniPCIe board, a cable (12in) and a PCIe 1x socket board. I will need to mount the board somewhere to receive the 1X card. I am following the silent home server guide from this site, so the case I am using is the Lian Li PC-Q08 which has two slot positions (DTX) so I just need to come out with a mounting method. The adapters I got are from Amfeltec in Canada and come in a variety of configurations (mini-PCIe full or half size cards) and powering options. There are other one piece adapters on the market, but this is the only one I found with a cable for flexibility. Took awhile to get theme shipped as I am in the US, but the physical quality looks good, but again, I haven't tested them yet. Very busy right now finishing my basement, so the build is going very slow.

Jay


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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Shamelessly necroing on this... I'm trying to build a very similar LGA1155 mini-itx system right now. radeon card is taking up the only pcie slot so i'm considering purchasing an amfeltec adapter for the minipcie cardslot so i can install a nice pcie x1 sound card.

Did your build work out for you, or does anyone else know if I would lose audio quality running a sound card through this adapter?


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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:24 am 
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From the Wikipedia page:

Electrical interface
PCI Express Mini Card edge connector provide multiple connections and buses:
PCIe ×1
USB 2.0
SMBus
Wires to diagnostics LEDs for wireless network (i.e., Wi-Fi) status on computer's chassis
SIM card for GSM and WCDMA applications. (UIM signals on spec)
Future extension for another PCIe lane
1.5 and 3.3 volt power

No, there shouldn' be an issue with sound quality, only mounting the adapter isn't easy.
The Radeon cards 4k series and up definitely (maybe from 2k? not sure) have a sound controller. You can use the HDMI port and run it through a receiver and from there to the monitor.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:11 am 
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Yeah after reading the wiki info you posted and seeing that mini pcie includes pcie x1 bus functionality it seems pretty legit.

Basically I'm going to get a Silverstone Sugo sg07 or sg08, throw a mini itx board, radeon 6970, ht omega claro 7.1 pcie sound card (mounted to the inside top of the case using spacers or whatever those tubes are called). cut a fresh hole in the back of the case where the wifi antennae used to be and stick the sound card i/o stuff out through there (because it'll be imprisoned on the inside top of the case otherwise)

only thing i'm really unsure about at this point is whether or not there's a better air cooling mini-itx case that i can overclock/volt a cpu, gpu and some ram inside and not worrying about thermals.

Thanks for the info, really hugely appreciated and sorry for necroing this thread. Seems like not a huge number of people know about Amfeltec adapters, but they're probably better suited to building to home stereo gaming machines like this one than actual monsters.


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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:01 am 
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If you don't already have the 6790 I would recommend the ASUS 7770 Direct CU. Performance is the same, but the power draw is significantly reduced 10/75/95 W idle/game/furmark. The Asus cooler is very quiet. It's a bit more expensive at the moment, but the card just came out.

When I started to plan my next build I wanted to do just that, build the smallest possible system for overclocking. I wanted to use my sound card,too.
The SG07 has the room for good coolers but according the spcr's review it's not the most silent option. The 18cm fan is hard to replace and the PSU is just 80 bronze. When it came out the price was a bit steep, but has come down since.
For overclocking you need a powerful PSU, a Pico PSU will not do. A standard PSU only fits in a few ITX cases, exept for the SG07 it doesn't leave enough room for a good CPU cooler.
There are a few options that are smaller, but not as silent:
Shuttle XPC SZ68R5 about the same size as the SG07, but the included PSU is not silent.
Lian Li Q08 (spcr review) bigger than SG07, if you remove the hard drive try and use a water cooler it could be great for overclocking.
A small micro ATX desktop like the Chenbro 308 might be worth a look. It comes with a 300W Seasonic PSU. You can use a dual slot graphic card cooler, but the cooler can't be any taller the graphic card itself.
I decided to buy a bigger case: an older version of the Lian Li A-05 I bought on ebay.

One more idea: electrodacus sells PSU type PSUs. He's using two and a big external brick for 220w of silent power. This is my favourite Lian Li Q11 build. With an Ivy Bridge 77w CPU (i5-3750k) and a Radeon 7770 you might be inside that power envolpe if you don't overclock.

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:42 pm
Posts: 4
Hey Boost,
thanks for getting back to me, sorry it took me so long. Just busy as hell at work today.

I'm actually really torn between the sg07 and sg08, they seem to be the best mini-itx cases around. sg07 seems to have better cooling performance outta the box, and has more room for a nice cpu cooler afterwards. power supply being a 600 bronze is just fine. the power supply calculator page i use (http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine) clocks the power requirement around 500w for the full system before overclocking, this is an overestimate using high end fans and regular desktop motherboard as well.

basically my build strategy is:

purchase mini-itx case with best cooling properties (sg07/08 most likely, they seem to have excellent cooling and come with sufficient power, noise isn't really a huge issue.)

purchase zotac z68 mobo (firmware has been updated and it seems quite nice these days)

remove wifi mini pcie card, install pcie adapter

use spacers to mount sound card to ceiling of case after removing bracket/shield, sound card is an ht omega claro 7.1 chosen for quality and size. not entirely committed to it but it looks really good.

reroute sound card i/o out back of case where removed wifi antennae were, possibly involving some light cutting. hoping i can just run the cables right out and then clean up the look without using a passthrough coupler/adapter thing (like vga to vga, for example)

purchase a high end pcie 2.0 graphics card with low thermals (pcie 3.0 isn't supported on this, idk if it's worth getting one) currently looking at the 6970 selection. I'll need to look through some different options and pick the highest performance:temp ratio one, this is one of the hard parts I think.

small 60gb mushkin enhanced chronos ssd for boot drive, western digital something or other for storage, slim optical because they aren't completely obsolete yet, 8gb 2133mhz ram lowest cl possible, these seem to be the easiest components to pick...

fill remaining space with cpu cooler and maybe some additional sinks

check thermals and power usage prior to overclocking

go from there...

Those cases you linked are pretty nice, I hadn't ever seen the xpc shuttle ones. They would be perfect for what i'm trying to do but their psu is insufficient unfortunately :( There was a couple lian li cases I seriously considered.. the pc-q08, pc-tu200, and the T1 (test spider) I think I'll revisit their cases before committing to the silverstone choices.

Sorry if I'm babbling, really long day, thinking out loud and a couple whiskys deep. Does this seem like a pipe dream build or do you think the temps will be manageable in the finished item? Worried about cable management and cooler clearance with the roof-mounted sound card as well. Basically just planning right now, I don't own any parts for this yet. Trying to get a cohesive game plan together before I start picking up hardware.

Thanks for the input man, really great to have someone to bounce ideas off of for this.

edit:// I was looking at the corsair H60 or H50 as a possible cpu cooler (similar to the kuhler you linked), pretty sure I could find a spot on the case I wasn't too attached to and cut a spot. Running out of real estate on the outside and inside of the case though, probably wouldn't work. I'll hunt around for some other gpu options, thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 567
Location: de_DE
withersere wrote:
power supply being a 600 bronze is just fine.

It has more than enough power for your rig. I bought a Seasonic S12II bronze certified PSU five years ago. No progress on PSU efficiency in five years is not great.
withersere wrote:
purchase a high end pcie 2.0 graphics card with low thermals (pcie 3.0 isn't supported on this, idk if it's worth getting one) currently looking at the 6970 selection. I'll need to look through some different options and pick the highest performance:temp ratio one, this is one of the hard parts I think.

PCIe 3.0 cards like the 7770 are backward compatible with PCIe 2.0. The 7770 thermals are a lot better here are some review links. With a good cooler it should overclock from 1Ghz core to 1120-1180.
boost wrote:
8gb 2133mhz ram lowest cl possible, these seem to be the easiest components to pick...

Don't be disappointed if the fast ram will not get you any gains in gaming over 1600 CL9 or maybe CL7 if you want to spend more money.
withersere wrote:
I hadn't ever seen the xpc shuttle ones. They would be perfect for what i'm trying to do but their psu is insufficient unfortunately :(

What are you taking about, the Shuttle Z68 system comes with a 500W PSU.
withersere wrote:
the power supply calculator page i use (http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine) clocks the power requirement around 500w for the full system before overclocking, this is an overestimate using high end fans and regular desktop motherboard as well.

I used that calculator: 1cpu,desktop board, i7-2600k overclocked 4500MHz 1.3V, 2xDDR3, 6970, 5k Hdd, SSD, Blu-ray drive, 1 PCie 1x card
343W. That's realistic, overclocking the graphic card maybe 400w. Going down to 300W regular 350w OC for 7770.
I will buy a power hungry nVidia card for a similar system and power it with a 600-650W PSU (Gold or Platinum certified is a must have for me).

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:22 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:42 pm
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Okay, so i'm definitely not splurging on ram after reading that. Good read, thanks for the link.

The gpu I was choosing based on tom's hardware "best graphics card for the money" $300-$400 range. Since I couldn't get any sli/xfire options owing to the motherboard. Went with the 6970... Going through the tom's hardware review for the 7950... the load temps are like 8ºc lower than the card I picked :( Thanks again for the information :D You're making me reevaluate my build in some areas, greatly appreciated.

I just rechecked that power supply calculator page... Still getting 465w after taking all the fans and potential usb drives out. Pretty sure I've got everything in there correctly too, this is non-oc. Strange, not sure.

Mostly I'm just ecstatic that it's possible to fit an additional pcie card on a mitx board at this point. The lian li pc-q11 looks like a really nice case too. Gonna go look up the reference length for the 7k series cards and see what I can fit in what case.

Thanks for the timely response(s) again. big props.

-Jack/Withersere


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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:55 am 
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withersere wrote:
Mostly I'm just ecstatic that it's possible to fit an additional pcie card on a mitx board at this point. The lian li pc-q11 looks like a really nice case too. Gonna go look up the reference length for the 7k series cards and see what I can fit in what case.

Dimension of 7770 & 7750, Dimensions of 7950 (7970 is same size)
Maximum card length in Q11 is 22,5cm -> up to 7770.
SG07, Lian Li Q08 28cm -> every card.
Q07 18cm (18,5?) -> 7750

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 Post subject: Re: Any currently available Socket P or Socket 775 Mini-DTX
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:42 pm 
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withersere wrote:
I just rechecked that power supply calculator page... Still getting 465w after taking all the fans and potential usb drives out. Pretty sure I've got everything in there correctly too, this is non-oc. Strange, not sure.


Those PSU calculators have been discussed in this forum before; the general conclusion is that the wattage figures they spit out are overestimated.


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