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 Post subject: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Hey!

I've recently been working on a HTPC project. Because of limited size in my tv furniture and the looks I've used a Streacom F7c Mini itx case.
In this case I've got a Core I3 2100T, an asrock H67m-itx board and a ssd, dvd burner and since today a 3.5" hdd. I haven't got a NAS (nor is this practical in my house), so I do need the 3.5" HDD for storage space. There's place for one 80mm case fan which I've used for a quiet fan. However, this fan is largely blocked by SATA cables (mb connectors are right behind it). On the other side of the case there's some more ventilation and this part is free, but the case doesn't allow for fans to be mounted here.

The problem is that the 3.5" HDD is right above the CPU and even with the tiny stock cooler I've got a clearance of maybe 3mm. Been testing this and on a low CPU fan speed the CPU will get at 65+ c when it's simultaneously unpacking files while also playing media. So I'm looking for a replacement fan.

This is how much space I've got:
Image

I was thinking about getting a side blowing 1U cooler. I'm looking at thise one right now:
Image
Dynatron K199

Does anyone have any experience with these? They can be mounted in any direction, right? And does anyone have any other suggestion?


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:37 pm 
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I believe those side blowing fans are inherently louder than traditional axial fans.

Exactly how much headroom do you have?

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Headroom is 37mm.

Anyway, took another look at the cabling and I should be able to do a better job at it. I might also be able to tap a second case fan to the chassis, so I'll look at that first.

If that's not enough I guess I'll look into a 'regular' 1u cpu cooler. It should give the fan a bit more headroom.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:16 am 
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How about replacing the 3.5 HD with a thinner 2.5. There are mounting kits that allow you to mount two 2.5 HDs in place of one 3.5 HD. That m ight give you room to mount a Kozuti CPU cooler.

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:39 pm 
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Even if I would get a 2.5" disc the Kozuti wouldn't fit beneath my hdd bracket. Rewiring has helped somewhat with the temps, these have been floating between 55 and 60 today, CPU fan still on min speed. I'd prefer to go a bit lower still as I wasn't really stressing the (Just some video and downloads, including file checks and unpacking). Going to test for a while with the fan steppd up one notch. Also thinking about getting a Gelid Slim Silence I Plus, I'd expect the extra clearance to help with the cooling.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:20 pm 
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antagon wrote:
Even if I would get a 2.5" disc the Kozuti wouldn't fit beneath my hdd bracket.
I went and looked at your chassis online. If you got an SSD, you pretty much lodge it anywhere you have some room in the case. It wouldn't need to be mounted... and you could even but a silicon cover for it. You even get a tiny 1.8" one like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167074

You could then clip back the two arms designed to hold the 3.5 HDD... though that is an expensive peice of hardware to take a dremel to.

That would give you another 25mm of headroom for a real cpu cooler. 37mm + 25mm = 62mm. The Kozuti will fit into that space with breathing room to spare.

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:16 pm 
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antagon wrote:
...
I haven't got a NAS (nor is this practical in my house), so I do need the 3.5" HDD for storage space.
...

ces wrote:
...
I went and looked at your chassis online. If you got an SSD, you pretty much lodge it anywhere you have some room in the case. It wouldn't need to be mounted... and you could even but a silicon cover for it. You even get a tiny 1.8" one like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167074
...

Considering the OP, I don't think SSD only(and he already has one istalled :twisted: ) would be an option for antagon, unless he adds an external HDD. Now returning to the original questions: the Dynatron K199 cooler has a bottom intake and top side exhaust, so IMO it will need some creative work(cardboard&duct-tape :twisted: ) to extend the cooler's side exhaust to the back/side exhaust of the case, and adjust the existing 80mm fan accordingly(front->back/left->right airflow). Regarding the orientation of the cooler: AFAIK, the LGA1155/6 socket holes are in square pattern, so rotation of the cooler on the MB shouldn't be a problem; maybe the "backplates" can be problem, so you better check.
And no, I don't have any experience with that cooler; but if fits the available space, and the side extension can be added, I think is the best solution for the problem. The only problem what I can see is the fan: it can be VERY LOUD(according to the reviews & specs - 5000RPM max), but with some creative bios(or speedfan) settings this problem can be solved.
As conclusion I would go with the Dynatron K199 cooler; if you have more questions, ask; but we will want pictures of the finished HTPC :wink: ...


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:37 pm 
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Zolishoru wrote:
according to the reviews & specs - 5000RPM max
That sounds like a big headache no matter how you do it. It seems like it would be better to do something like cutting a hole in the case and adding a nice nexus fan to get more air in and out. If you slow it down, it may likely be worse than what it is replacing.

You have to ask yourself is it really worth building a vacuum cleaner to reduce the temps. If you are looking for advice on this website, you probably aren't

1. You may be able to pick up a few degrees with a better thermal interface. This one, which isn't a traditional paste, looks like a good bet:
viewtopic.php?p=554129#p554129

2. The external part of the mod could be framed with maybe something like one of these, perhaps two of them on the top of the case... either with or without additional fans(s) added.
http://www.modright.com/products/11316/ ... g54c3s1239
http://www.modright.com/products/11293/ ... g54c3s1239

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:03 pm 
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ces wrote:
That sounds like a big headache no matter how you do it. It seems like it would be better to do something like cutting a hole in the case and adding a nice nexus fan to get more air in and out. If you slow it down, it may likely be worse than what it is replacing.
...

Nice to see how much attention you give to a product before you give advice about it :twisted: ...
FYI, some data about the Dynatron K199:
(Almost) fully covered PWM controlled fan,
RPM range:
At Duty Cycle 0~20%: 1000 RPM
At Duty Cycle 50%: 2500 RPM
At Duty Cycle 100%: 5000 RPM
Noise Level(grain of salt required, but IMO isn't far from reality):
At Duty Cycle 0~20%: 20.71 dBA
At Duty Cycle 50%: 37.5 dBA
At Duty Cycle 100%: 51.7 dBA

IMO is possible to make quiet HTPC with that cooler; it will give better temperatures than the original cooler with same or less noise?
Quite possible, I would say.
So after all, looks like the Devil isn't that black :P .


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:07 am 
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Zolishoru wrote:
At Duty Cycle 0~20%: 1000 RPM
At Duty Cycle 50%: 2500 RPM
At Duty Cycle 100%: 5000 RPM

it will give better temperatures than the original cooler with same or less noise?
Quite possible, I would say.


An extra Noctua NF-B9 PWM will operate from 300rpm to 1300 rpm. The rpm is the primary single factor in determining, among reasonably well designed fans, which fan will generate the most noise. Putting aside the fact that fans that share the design of the Dynatron K199 have a reputation for being inherently loud, how can you say what you are saying? Do you have any direct experience with the Dynatron K199?

By the way, I believe the reason such fans have a reputation for such noise is that there is an inherent amount of wind churn as the air is forced and compressed in the housing?

When I look at the picture of the Dynatron K199, it is hard to see that it has much in the way of fins. That means in order for it to work better than the stock cooler, it will have to move more air, more quickly, past whatever fins it does have... not exactly a recipe for silence.

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:30 am 
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ces wrote:
An extra Noctua NF-B9 PWM will operate from 300rpm to 1300 rpm. The rpm is the primary single factor in determining, among reasonably well designed fans, which fan will generate the most noise. Putting aside the fact that fans that share the design of the Dynatron K199 have a reputation for being inherently loud, how can you say what you are saying? Do you have any direct experience with the Dynatron K199?

By the way, I believe the reason such fans have a reputation for such noise is that there is an inherent amount of wind churn as the air is forced and compressed in the housing?

When I look at the picture of the Dynatron K199, it is hard to see that it has much in the way of fins. That means in order for it to work better than the stock cooler, it will have to move more air, more quickly, past whatever fins it does have... not exactly a recipe for silence.


As I just stated previously, I just love the attention you pay to the discussion, asking something which was answered two posts ago.
What makes me think that the Dynatron K199 will do better job then the OEM cooler? The airflow direction; the Dynatron K199 is not choked for airflow; but any help is welcome, given the crowded space. If the Dynatron K199 is enough to cool the processor close to idle fan speeds(which I think it is) on normal(no gaming) loads, it's a win situation. It's noisier then the OEM heat-sink? Almost for sure; the question is with how much.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:29 am 
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Zolishoru wrote:
I just love the attention you pay to the discussion,
One correction. I am not disregarding the words you write. I am disregarding the analysis behind those words. I find your analysis to be flawed.

Then again, experience trumps conjecture. Do you have experience with this cooler or not? While I am not going to give deference to your flawed conjecture, I will accord respect to your experience. Heck you can even make it up. I won't know any better... but I can detect flawed conjecture. It isn't worth arguing over, but it also isn't worth paying attention to either. IMHO

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:45 am 
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While I have not used that specific model of Dynatron, I have experience several others in 1U servers. They are loud. No, they are fucking loud! You do not want this unless you are sure about the noise.

Second, 65C at load is not unreasonable. Run prime95+furmark for a while and see how high you get.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:47 pm 
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@ces:
1.
antagon wrote:
...
In this case I've got a Core I3 2100T, an asrock H67m-itx board and a ssd, dvd burner and since today a 3.5" hdd. I haven't got a NAS (nor is this practical in my house), so I do need the 3.5" HDD for storage space.
...

ces wrote:
I went and looked at your chassis online. If you got an SSD, you pretty much lodge it anywhere you have some room in the case. It wouldn't need to be mounted... and you could even but a silicon cover for it. You even get a tiny 1.8" one like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820167074
...

2.
Zolishoru wrote:
...
And no, I don't have any experience with that cooler
...

ces wrote:
...
Do you have any direct experience with the Dynatron K199?
...

3.
Zolishoru wrote:
As I just stated previously, I just love the attention you pay to the discussion, asking something which was answered two posts ago.
...

ces wrote:
...
Do you have experience with this cooler or not?
...

One more thing, which you should ask yourself: How much credibility anybody can give to your opinion, if you cannot pay attention to the discussion?
Hereby I close the discussion from my side about your attention and credibility; I won't comment them any more in this thread.

@washu:
washu wrote:
While I have not used that specific model of Dynatron, I have experience several others in 1U servers. They can be loud. No, they can be fucking loud!

Second, 65C at load is not unreasonable. Run prime95+furmark for a while and see how high you get.

Here, I've fixed this one for you ;)
Details: in this case the 1U cooler don't have to cool a fully loaded 95W TDP processor, it has to cool a barely loaded 35W TDP processor. In other words the fan doesn't has to run @5000RPM, I would guesstimate 1000-1500RPM should do it.
Another guesstimate: In antagon current situation, prime95+furmark with closed case within an hour ends in thermal shutdown.
If you have the possibility, check out how much noise an 1U cooler will make with his fan@1000RPM - it's in the same ballpark like an OEM cooler @1000RPM(my experience).

Now back to the topic:
After I've downloaded the User Guide & Datasheet of the Streacom F7c, I have better view over the situation. My previous estimate of the airflow was wrong; the correct way: intake left bottom end, exhaust right side back(front view). Anyway, this doesn't change the situation that the CPU cooler is choked(rule of thumb: a fan need an empty space equal of his thickness as intake to provide proper airflow), and to provide proper cooling to the CPU, this situation has to be changed. To do so with the given construction(case), you have to change the airflow over the CPU from top-down to left-right("tower style"), and use a heat-sink which provide cooling with this airflow, without providing the "roadblock" of the Intel cooler. Unfortunately, this type of HSF combo is available only as 1U version, considering the space constrains. Other option would be to go fan-less on the CPU, and install a a "beefier" heat-sink, and use the case airflow for cooling; the remaining question is the efficiency of the fan-less CPU solution.
I hope I managed to explain why I consider the Dynatron K199 on forced low RPM a better solution in antagon's case than the original Intel cooler(case modding excluded ATM).


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:06 pm 
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Zolishoru, I am not going to bother to read your long diatribe. I doubt many other people will either. Oh, maybe I can think of one person who will. But that is the exception that proves the rule.

Sticking to the subject, let me get this right, you are advocating, in an SPCR forum, that the OP use the 1000-3000 rpm Dynatron K199 (designed not for quietness but use in server rooms)... in an HTPC project? Are you sure that you really want to stick to that position? Are you really really really sure?

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:41 pm 
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ces wrote:
Zolishoru, I am not going to bother to read your long diatribe. I doubt many other people will either. Oh, maybe I can think of one person who will. But that is the exception that proves the rule.

Sticking to the subject, let me get this right, you are advocating, in an SPCR forum, that the OP use the 1000-1500 rpm(Zolishoru's correction) Dynatron K199 (designed not for quietness but use in server rooms)... in an HTPC project? Are you sure that you really want to stick to that position? Are you really really really sure?

Yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:06 pm 
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Zolishoru wrote:
ces wrote:
Zolishoru, I am not going to bother to read your long diatribe. I doubt many other people will either. Oh, maybe I can think of one person who will. But that is the exception that proves the rule.

Sticking to the subject, let me get this right, you are advocating, in an SPCR forum, that the OP use the 1000-1500 rpm(Zolishoru's correction) Dynatron K199 (designed not for quietness but use in server rooms)... in an HTPC project? Are you sure that you really want to stick to that position? Are you really really really sure?

Yes.
Nothing more need be said.

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:30 pm 
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If the K199 is inherently louder I don't think it'd be a good option for me. Though it's not really needed for my pc to be completely silent (sadly my tv has gotten somewhat noisy over time) I wouldn't really want something that makes more noise them the stock fan at min fan speeds.

If I can't get my htpc any cooler without taking out my hdd, I might do that and put it in an external enclosure, but I'd prefer to keep it inside. For the cooler I'm now looking at a Gelid Slim Silence I Plus. The slim silence didn't get the best review here, but the fan should have about a cm of clearance beneath the hdd and obviously only cool a cpu that I'd reckon only pulls 10-20 watts with my use.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:21 pm 
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antagon wrote:
If the K199 is inherently louder I don't think it'd be a good option for me. Though it's not really needed for my pc to be completely silent (sadly my tv has gotten somewhat noisy over time) I wouldn't really want something that makes more noise them the stock fan at min fan speeds.

If I can't get my htpc any cooler without taking out my hdd, I might do that and put it in an external enclosure, but I'd prefer to keep it inside. For the cooler I'm now looking at a Gelid Slim Silence I Plus. The slim silence didn't get the best review here, but the fan should have about a cm of clearance beneath the hdd and obviously only cool a cpu that I'd reckon only pulls 10-20 watts with my use.

I'm surely hope that you will get better-then-expected results with your final choice; at the same time I hope that I've managed to help you to make a good decision regarding your problem. And I am really sorry about what happened in the tread, but tolerating ignorance just isn't part of me, especially with repeat offenders.
Meantime I will wait for your results with your future/new cooler :wink: .


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Zolishoru wrote:
antagon wrote:
If the K199 is inherently louder I don't think it'd be a good option for me. Though it's not really needed for my pc to be completely silent (sadly my tv has gotten somewhat noisy over time) I wouldn't really want something that makes more noise them the stock fan at min fan speeds.

If I can't get my htpc any cooler without taking out my hdd, I might do that and put it in an external enclosure, but I'd prefer to keep it inside. For the cooler I'm now looking at a Gelid Slim Silence I Plus. The slim silence didn't get the best review here, but the fan should have about a cm of clearance beneath the hdd and obviously only cool a cpu that I'd reckon only pulls 10-20 watts with my use.

I'm surely hope that you will get better-then-expected results with your final choice; at the same time I hope that I've managed to help you to make a good decision regarding your problem. And I am really sorry about what happened in the tread, but tolerating ignorance just isn't part of me, especially with repeat offenders.
Meantime I will wait for your results with your future/new cooler :wink: .


You shouldn't be sorry about anything on this page, nothing wrong with a discussion.

It might still take a while before I've got the cooler installed, but I'll post the results / take some pictures when I've got it.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:52 am 
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ces wrote:
Nothing more need be said.

Zolishoru wrote:
And I am really sorry about what happened in the tread, but tolerating ignorance just isn't part of me, especially with repeat offenders.

My Error

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:50 pm 
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I have got K199 and K2 (wit pushpins ) . Both are loud , You will get better temps and quiet operation with Akasa 7106HP . On the other hand , as someone else said : change hdd to a 2.5 version.


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:58 pm 
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tramall wrote:
I have got K199 and K2 (wit pushpins ) . Both are loud , You will get better temps and quiet operation with Akasa 7106HP . On the other hand , as someone else said : change hdd to a 2.5 version.

What I'd like to hear, if you can tell: how does it compare with the original Intel cooler(or with the Akasa) on similar RPM as noise and cooling?
Thanks in advance.
Regarding the Akasa: still doesn't solve the choked situation(top-down airflow).
2.5" HDD: it can improve the CPU cooling with adding more room on the top, but it worth the price premium?


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Zolishoru wrote:
tramall wrote:
I have got K199 and K2 (wit pushpins ) . Both are loud
how does it compare with the original Intel cooler
Yes how does it compare? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:42 am 
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ces wrote:
Zolishoru wrote:
tramall wrote:
I have got K199 and K2 (wit pushpins ) . Both are loud
how does it compare with the original Intel cooler
Yes how does it compare? :)

I do not have proper tools to measure it , but You can hear the difference easily . K2 is bit better but it is still loud. K199 have better mounting .

The other problem is, that both (k199 and K2) coolers cover board's capacitors . Usually they are placed close to the socket(especially in moni-itx boards). So when You install these coolers ,it restricts airflow around them. You can see it on attached picture(K199 on Intel DH61DL). That are gets very hot, so it may not be the best option for longevity of the board.
Image

Iam not saying that k199 is bad cooler. It is very well made piece of equipment , but it is meant for different purposes .

Our cases have vent holes just above the cpu , so akasa works best. Yes , You need to provide "top-flow" . K199 usually works in 1U rack case which doesn't have it (airflow is provided by 40mm fans )

Last thing is price : K199 costs twice as much as Akasa , at least in Europe.

Antagon: I would opt for 2.5 inch HDD , if not , then akasa (it is beffier than stock cooler for "T" cpu's). There is Gelid's 1U solution on the market , but have not tried it yet. Have You tried Scythe Kozuti ?


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 Post subject: Re: Need some advice for a 1U cpu cooler
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:01 am 
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Location: US
tramall wrote:
Antagon: I would opt for 2.5 inch HDD , if not , then akasa (it is beffier than stock cooler for "T" cpu's). There is Gelid's 1U solution on the market , but have not tried it yet. Have You tried Scythe Kozuti ?
ces wrote:
How about replacing the 3.5 HD with a thinner 2.5. There are mounting kits that allow you to mount two 2.5 HDs in place of one 3.5 HD. That m ight give you room to mount a Kozuti CPU cooler.


That was what I was thinking, but at the time I made the above post, I estimated that there wasn't room unless you when to a thinner hard drive. Certainly if you can shoe horn in a Kozuti, that would be an excellent choice. Antagon how many mm of headroom do you have with the 3.5 HD?

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