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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:05 pm 
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lb_felipe wrote:
That said which is the best 120mm PWM fan for heatsink for SPCR standards?
The 800 rpm Gentle Typhoon looks like a can't lose choice. Just plug it in and run it at a regular 12 volts. It is both quiet... and has good static pressure performance.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:41 pm 
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ces wrote:
lb_felipe wrote:
That said which is the best 120mm PWM fan for heatsink for SPCR standards?
The 800 rpm Gentle Typhoon looks like a can't lose choice. Just plug it in and run it at a regular 12 volts. It is both quiet... and has good static pressure performance.


Also a good selection and it should be able to be voltage controlled with the software on his motherboard.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:55 pm 
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birthdaymonkey wrote:
Interesting to hear confirmation of the tonal noise of the higher RPM Gentle Typhoons. I currently have two of these sitting idle in my box o' fans for this very reason. One of these is the 1850 RPM mentioned in the article, but the other is an 1150, which unfortunately exhibits the ringing tone when the voltage is turned down.


I've had mixed results with the GTs, a couple have had issues with ringing and chatter, most have been fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 4:15 am 
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Just a quick observation: The link at the end of the article points to the thread from the 5th round up, not this one.

Also a question, Was that an older picture of the Kanomax 6803 Anemometer? The picture shows that it's 3 years overdue for a calibration.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 9:26 am 
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Does anyone know how these results apply when it comes to case fans? It seems to me that a case fan would require much less static pressure and more airflow. I'm a bit surprised that there wasn't a test procedure designed to test performance when mounted as a case fan since it should be different conditions and different results.
Am I wrong? Can these measurements be used? Because it seems to me that a scythe GT will most likely fall behind a nexus fan when mounted as a case fan since the 11 blades wouldn't be very useful when it's just about moving air compared to the 7 blade design from the nexus.
I'm wondering because I need to decide on fans for my upcoming build ^^

ps. would the front fans on a door-design case like the fractal design r3 or corsair 550d take advantage of a higher static pressure because of obstructed intake?


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:48 pm 
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Finally I get my fan roundup! Best 100 bucks I ever spent!

Didn't really get an answer to the question if 140mm is "worth it" tho. Maybe I'll have to donate some more.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:07 pm 
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shaippen wrote:
Does anyone know how these results apply when it comes to case fans? It seems to me that a case fan would require much less static pressure and more airflow. I'm a bit surprised that there wasn't a test procedure designed to test performance when mounted as a case fan since it should be different conditions and different results.




Well, FWIW, the FPM measurements (and SPL) are done in free air and not while the fans are mounted on the heatsink.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:27 pm 
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in case you did not get the msg in the review, airflow by itself is completely meaningless, and there is no way my single anemometer can give an accurate cfm. It has to be tied to pressure measurements as well, and both these vary with rpm, like spl.

Some simple notes -

--Fans with high pressure at low speed are ideal for silencers.
--The fans which gave lower temps at low speed will also do better than others at those speeds as case fans when there is some but not very high impedance -- which describes the archon.

Gotta run -- more later.

----------------

LATER:

Going back to comparisons of the results, I caution everyone not to...
-- celebrate differences of 1C in temperature or 1 dBA in noise. Even though the results are probably accurate enough to better than those numbers, the actual performance oor audible difference is just too small to be significant for just about anyone. Can I hear the difference, for example, 11 and 12 dBA fans when they are inside a sturdy case, perhaps with one or more noise sources within (even if they are very quiet) or any ambient noise around me (like my own typing?) No, it's almost impossible.

Whether higher pressure or higher airflow is better for case fan is probably going to raise debate. It depends, as usual, on just what the rpm is, and how much impedance there is. In fans with big area blades are going to give higher pressure but will cause more noise. A simple rule of thumb for me is to look at thefan -- if the gaps between the blades are small or non-existent, then it's probably going to give higher pressure at the cost of higher noise, and of course the reverse -- thin, small blades with big gaps between just can't apply as much pressure.

When it is on a low impedance heatsink (ie, one which has wide gaps between fins and short distance for the air to flow through), a higher speed fan with lower fan blade area will probably work best -- again depending on the noise/cooling balance you want/need.

On a higher impedance heatsink, a fan that can provide higher pressure at lower speed will do better.

So there is no perfect fan, just which fan works best for your setup, depending on your goals.

But if asked what's the perfect fan for a silencer, I'd have to answer high pressure at low speed (noise). This is the best general purpose silencer's fan -- ilke a car with a powerful electric motor that has great torque at <20 mph while barely making any noise.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Thank you, CA_Steve, for the graphs, especially the 2nd on. Very useful, I should have done that, but I am glad you did.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Sure thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:39 am 
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Thanks for the review, but

Quote:
The 500 RPM model was deemed too slow for any real cooling usefulness


I run SlipStreams at 400 RPM, when not gaming or overclocking. IMO, 500 RPM is not too slow for quiet systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:31 am 
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What's the opinion on 38 mm fans? How does the extra thickness affect the noise and performance, in general?


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:27 am 
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Mats wrote:
What's the opinion on 38 mm fans? How does the extra thickness affect the noise and performance, in general?
The actual examples out there are louder than 25mm fans... but it is hard to know if that is because of the extra width, or because of the design goals and tradeoffs of the actual designs.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:49 pm 
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ces wrote:
lb_felipe wrote:
That said which is the best 120mm PWM fan for heatsink for SPCR standards?
The 800 rpm Gentle Typhoon looks like a can't lose choice. Just plug it in and run it at a regular 12 volts. It is both quiet... and has good static pressure performance.


According to the guy at Scythe-USA that I talked to yesterday, the 800 RPM Gentle Typhoon is no longer being made. 500 RPM version is also discontinued. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Ralf Hutter wrote:
According to the guy at Scythe-USA that I talked to yesterday, the 800 RPM Gentle Typhoon is no longer being made. 500 RPM version is also discontinued. :(

Gah! Did you point him to this review?

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:03 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:
According to the guy at Scythe-USA that I talked to yesterday, the 800 RPM Gentle Typhoon is no longer being made. 500 RPM version is also discontinued. :(

D'oh! Did you point him to this review?

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 4:48 am 
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Mike, Question:

Among your untested fans, are there any Noctuas?

If no, do you have any plans to test them? Should we be email bombing them to send you samples? =)


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:50 am 
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nutball wrote:
birthdaymonkey wrote:
Interesting to hear confirmation of the tonal noise of the higher RPM Gentle Typhoons. I currently have two of these sitting idle in my box o' fans for this very reason. One of these is the 1850 RPM mentioned in the article, but the other is an 1150, which unfortunately exhibits the ringing tone when the voltage is turned down.


I've had mixed results with the GTs, a couple have had issues with ringing and chatter, most have been fine.

It seems there's sample variances between Gentle Typhoons. I got one GT1450 which was very quiet at 5V/7v, and it managed to surprise me given its smooth turbulence, no ball-bearing chatter characteristics.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 11:18 am 
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mikeclueby4 wrote:
Among your untested fans, are there any Noctuas?
Looking at the second picture in the review they obviously have at least one Noctua fan. According to this review http://www.silentpcreview.com/Noctua_NH-L12, it performs worse than the Nexus fan.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:18 pm 
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Glad to see the Gentle Typhoons finally got attention. I put 5 of the 1150 rpm fans in a build almost 3 years ago (Aug 09). I'm very happy with their performance and silence. I've never noticed unusual noise or anything other than their unobtrusive signature sound. 5 fans running full speed and very nearly inaudible from a case under my desk and beside my right leg. Unfortunately it seems many models of the GT fans have been discontinued. They could have used SPCR's review attention some time ago.

Link to the old thread where the Gentle Typhoons were discussed with a link to pictures of my build:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=54804


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 6:55 pm 
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Tibors wrote:
According to this review http://www.silentpcreview.com/Noctua_NH-L12, it performs worse than the Nexus fan.


Ack, I didn't think to look at heatsink reviews. Thanks much for the pointer. A bit disappointing though; I thought they'd be better than that. :?


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:14 pm 
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Tibors wrote:
According to this review http://www.silentpcreview.com/Noctua_NH-L12, it performs worse than the Nexus fan.

That is not exactly true. The NH-L12 with its stock fans outperforms the NH-L12 with the Nexus reference fan on both dBs and degrees Centrigrade. See:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1261-page6.html

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:58 pm 
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ces wrote:
That is not exactly true. The NH-L12 with its stock fans outperforms the NH-L12 with the Nexus reference fan on both dBs and degrees Centrigrade. See:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1261-page6.html


True, but it takes both Noctua fans to outperform the Nexus by itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:36 pm 
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Lawrence Lee wrote:
True, but it takes both Noctua fans to outperform the Nexus by itself.
Who cares. The only variables that count are dBs and degrees Centigrade.

The two inferior fans, together, generate both better dBs and C (at the same time). Who cares how they do it. If you stop and think about it for a moment, I think you will agree.

And they have 150K hour bearings that are approved for horizontal use.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:46 pm 
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ces wrote:
The NH-L12 with its stock fans outperforms the NH-L12 with the Nexus reference fan on both dBs and degrees Centrigrade. See:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1261-page6.html

It's not entirely exact: it depends of the platform (you're using older, partial data).

With the overclocked Core i5 (the new SPCR test bed), the stock Noctua are clearly less effective than a single, cheap Nexus down to 14dBA, while they have a slight advantage over it of just 1°C only at the lowest 12dBA level. See: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1267-page5.html

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 10:51 pm 
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ces wrote:
The two inferior fans, together, generate both better dBs and C (at the same time).

Your state is simply not true (as already pointed out, it depends of the platform).

And I add it's a shame (on Noctua) that two very expensive fans can barely match a single, simple, cheap Nexus.

This is what really matter in a fan roundup: Noctua fans often "sucks", with reference to both their high cost and what competition may offer.

Just an overt, inveterate Noctua fanboy like you won't admit the current simple, awful truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:57 pm 
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It's a bit unfortunate that the GT is discontinued. The real winner for me from this review is the Nexus. Running it at 700 RPM (~7V) gets it pretty close to the performance of the Noiseblocker or the GT and it's half the price and widely available.


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:00 pm 
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Yes, the 2 noctuas slightly outperform the single nexus on that heatsink in particular, so swapping them out would obviously be a Bad Idea(tm).

But I was more interested in fan-vs-fan performance in my question. And I do believe the answer is "1 new Nexus outperforms 1 new Noctua where SPCR reader interests are concerned".

Having said that, I would like more info on how Nexus vs Noctua fans degrade over time. I have a decent confidence in Noctua myself, but Nexus I do not know enough about. Price wise you can buy 2 Nexus for 1 Noctua, but if 50% of the Nexus' life is spent squealing and humming I'd still shop Noctua. But I don't know if that's the case - anyone with insights? =)


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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:13 pm 
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squealing and humming is not what happens to sleeve bearing fans as they age. "chuffing" is more likely -- this is the sound I hear most from slightly damaged or worn sleeve bearing fans. We also have really old Nexus 120 fans that are still being used in the lab -- like 8 years old! -- and they're still OK. Lots of handling abuse, but much less actual spinning than fans employed in normal PCs.

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 Post subject: Re: Fan Roundup #6: Scythe, Noiseblocker, Antec, Nexus, Ther
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:08 pm 
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quest_for_silence wrote:
Just an overt, inveterate Noctua fanboy like you won't admit the current simple, awful truth.
I propose you limit the debate to the content of the argument as opposed to who is making it. I expect better from you :)

If you expect to be running most of the time near idle... the NH-L12 look pretty good to me.

My personal opinion, is that if you are looking for short stature, it is hard to beat the NH-L12 with a 92mm fan and the Scythe Kozuti.

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