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 Post subject: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:48 pm 
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As I'm speculating as to what case I should pick for my next build (spring/summer 2013), I've ended up with a case that doesn't exist (I think anyway, please correct me if I'm wrong).

I've looked at the FT02. Great concept and performance. I don't like the price.
I've looked at the R4. Great feature set for a reasonable price. I don't like the layout.

So I've gone ahead and messed up a picture from the bit-tech review of the R4 and this is the result (sorry for my paint skills):

Image

The case now has three 120mm front fans (the blue boxes), and I've had to move a few things out of the way to do this. The DVD-drive now has its own "box" on the top of the case. A bit of design work could probably make this look slightly less ugly. All the HDD trays have been scrapped in favor of a space for one besides the PSU. I can get by with one mechanical drive, and the option to mount SSD's on the back of the motherboard tray would persist. The back 140mm fan would be removed in favor of a grill spanning as much of the back side of the case as possible.

The idea is, that the three front fans would create sort of the same wind tunnel effect as the 180mm fans does in the FT02, while still being behind the front door, muffling the sound. Three 800rpm Gentle Typhoons at 12dba (recently tested here at SPCR) with their decent static pressure, would probably be great at this. And depending on the CPU and GPU heatsinks, the system could even be cooled just by those three.

Like the FT02, the case would be a positive pressure one, hopefully keeping out the dust through the use of filters.


Does a case like this already exist? Would it even work?


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:09 am 
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Doesn't exist (AFAIK), but it's exactly like my ideal case. :p
I'd go with 2x 3.5" bays though and maybe mATX.
Can't you fit 3x 140mm fans in front?


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:28 am 
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Location: Australia
Not quite the same, but this modified Antec NSK3480 below is pretty close to what you've suggested. :)

Druneau's NSK3480 i5/HR-02 Build

  • 120mm fan up front, perhaps a 140mm fan could fit with extra modding of the front bezel? Or get a 180mm fan if you remove the front panel connectors, and replace them with a 3.5" front bay panel with USB and audio jacks?
  • The case smartly uses the space in front of the PSU for 2x 5.25" bays, so you could get one DVD drive and one hard drive in there
  • Use a 3.5" front bay USB3 device to get some USB3 ports, or alternatively, use that bay for routing power supply cables through.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:17 am 
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Thanks for your responses!

I've made some modifications to the original idea. The 3.5" bay has been removed, in favor of two at the top of the case. The fans have been moved up a bit, to give them some airflow, and the green box now shows where 140mm fans could be installed. This also allows even longer PSU's to be installed. The one in the picture is approximately 180mm. It would probably be quite easy to make a lot of fan mounting positions possible, by simply making plenty of screw holes, allowing all kinds of configurations.

(don't mind the black box around the CPU fan)
Image

And this is the mATX version:
Image

Hopefully these paint-images get my point across despite all the cut and paste.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:04 pm 
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What's the advantage of moving the HDDs? Cabling to the top looks problematic.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 12:41 pm 
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This isn't far from the Silverstone TJ08/PS07 with drive cage removed.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
What's the advantage of moving the HDDs? Cabling to the top looks problematic.


I figure it's easier to fit two 3.5" bays there, than at the bottom. And they could probably be moved 2-3cm further up to allow for cut outs directly above the motherboard.
In my current case, the p182, the dvd drive is connected with a sata cable (50cm) that goes around the back, so I reckon my proposed setup would work as well. The cables wouldn't have to enter the main compartment again, since there would be cut outs directly behind the HDD's. Anyway, I can see that sata cables can be up to 1m, and power cables should be available in that length too, so it should work.


The other option would be to extend the "pedestal" the PSU is sitting on, thereby making more room beneath all the power cables, like this:

Image

Likewise for the mATX version.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:12 pm 
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Luke M wrote:
This isn't far from the Silverstone TJ08/PS07 with drive cage removed.


It isn't actually, going to look into that case. Thanks for the tip.


Last edited by Ren0ir on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:17 pm 
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Location: Bratislava, Slovak Republic
There are similar cases in layout, but not in the sizes you want.

http://lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/product/pro ... s_index=96
http://lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/product/pro ... s_index=96
http://lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/product/pro ... s_index=96
http://lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/product/pro ... s_index=95
http://lian-li.com.tw/v2/en/product/pro ... s_index=95

Not sure which of these are still being sold. PC-X2000 probably yes (i seen it in stock), the rest - who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:27 pm 
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faugusztin wrote:
There are similar cases in layout, but not in the sizes you want.

Size (and cost) are the main rationale for this design.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:34 am 
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http://www.sharkoon.com/?q=en/content/ms120

Not as compact as possible though and the PSU should be moved to the bottom.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:38 am 
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Which is Fractal Design Core 1000 with different front.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:44 pm 
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I know, but the Core 1000 doesn't support two front fans and it has the ports / buttons at a bad position.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:07 pm 
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Location: Germany
Core 1000 with 2 120mm front fan, 120mm back fan and some side fan placements.

http://www.aerocool.com.tw/index.php/pr ... q/31-qs200

Different front ports also.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:24 pm 
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I like the mATX version.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:21 am 
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Ren0ir wrote:
Luke M wrote:
This isn't far from the Silverstone TJ08/PS07 with drive cage removed.


It isn't actually, going to look into that case. Thanks for the tip.


Upcoming FT04 & RV04 are similar but large enough for ATX boards.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cases ... ress-ft04/

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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:40 am 
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http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/pr ... dex=62&g=f

Probably way too expensive though.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:10 pm 
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faugusztin wrote:


The PC-X1000 is actually available here in Denmark where I live, but it costs three times as much as the R3. Nice case though.

Blista wrote:
Ren0ir wrote:
Luke M wrote:
This isn't far from the Silverstone TJ08/PS07 with drive cage removed.


It isn't actually, going to look into that case. Thanks for the tip.


Upcoming FT04 & RV04 are similar but large enough for ATX boards.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/cases ... ress-ft04/


From the pictures, the FT04 seems very similar to what I'm looking for, and depending on the price, I may buy that one.

But regardless, I still feel that there is a piece of the market that is being forgotten. I'm not against spending a good amount on a case that could last me a few builds and upwards of 6 years, but the modifications I'm seeking for the R4 seems so miniscule - granted, I don't know much about the manufacturing process, so I could be wrong - that I feel like I'm over-spending. Why spend so much on a FT02, if Fractal could make the case I want for half that?

This is the case I wish they would make:
(Don't mind the difference in the color of the coating)
Image Image

I've removed the optical drive as I very rarely use it and can get by with an external one. There is only space for a single HDD, as that is plenty for me, and since the price of 512gb SSD's will soon reach affordable levels, this supports that decision too, for me at least. And finally, the two 180mm fans should provide enough airflow to keep the system cool and quiet.


If I had to make the case appeal to a wider market segment, it would probably need the things I removed above.

Image Image

The drive cages would be removable to allow a fan and/or 120mm rad at the top, and a wider PSU at the bottom. Maybe even make the optical drive and its rails be removable, thereby allowing a 240mm rad to be installed in the top. The front has three 140mm fans, and a combination of 180mm fans and a single 120mm is also an option for the cooling.


In the end I might just mod the R4 to suit my needs and give up on shortening the case.

Image Image


I guess I could always write Fractal an email.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:37 pm 
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Ren0ir wrote:
So I've gone ahead and messed up a picture from the bit-tech review of the R4 and this is the result (sorry for my paint skills):

Just wondering, why ATX instead of mATX?

HDDs could also be mounted vertically like the Fractal Core 1000.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:30 am 
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Olaf van der Spek wrote:
Ren0ir wrote:
So I've gone ahead and messed up a picture from the bit-tech review of the R4 and this is the result (sorry for my paint skills):

Just wondering, why ATX instead of mATX?

HDDs could also be mounted vertically like the Fractal Core 1000.



No particular reason, just the form factor I was used to dealing with.

I've have since become really interested in mini-ITX boards and cases, and after quite a bit of time in sketchup, I might end up making my own case from scratch. Not because I'll gain that much in noise/temps from having a case tailored to my needs, but it seems like it could be a fun project. All the modeling/drawing has been so far. But the actual realization of my mini-ITX case wouldn't be until next year, so maybe I'll end up being bored by the whole thing then.

I did email Fractal by the way - I've yet to hear anything from them, I probably won't.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:35 am 
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From ATX to ITX is quite a step. Did you consider the BitFenix Prodigy?


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:11 pm 
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So is the entire point of this exercise just to reduce the depth of the case? Is there some particular value in that?

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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Less wasted space and material (both inside the case and on the desktop or floor) and potentially better cooling.


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:14 pm 
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I don't see the potentially better cooling. Not with less internal volume, and you haven't necessarily made the airflow any better.

The case you've designed above would be limited both in the size of the PSU it could use and in the size of the video card. You need to get a lot more creative with the placement of the PSU.

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Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-M PRO CPU: Intel i5-3750K CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B Memory: G.Skill Ares DDR3 1600 16 GB
Boot Drive: Samsung 830 SSD 128 GB Work Drive: WDC WD1001FALS 1 TB 7200 RPM Optical Drive: Samsung SH-222BB DVD-RW
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini Fans: 2 x FD 120mm front, Scythe 120mm PWM rear Power Supply: SeaSonic M12II 620


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:25 pm 
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JJ wrote:
I don't see the potentially better cooling. Not with less internal volume, and you haven't necessarily made the airflow any better.

The case you've designed above would be limited both in the size of the PSU it could use and in the size of the video card. You need to get a lot more creative with the placement of the PSU.


The idea is that by reducing the internal volume, less air will have to be moved, and the fans will be more effective. All speculation though, I don't really have any data to back that up.

And regarding the limited length of the PSU and video card: I have mostly designed this as my ideal case, with the components I would use. Due to the sloppy accuracy of the pictures above, it may not look like it, but the maximum PSU length would be 160mm (eg. X-560 or AX650), and the maximum video card length would be 300mm (The reference GTX 680 is 254mm, and the Accerelo Xtreme III is 288mm IIRC).


Olaf van der Spek wrote:
From ATX to ITX is quite a step. Did you consider the BitFenix Prodigy?


Yep, I have looked at that, and it is a nice case with a great price. I'm a bit woried about the space for the video card though, seems to only allow 2-3 slot coolers - not sure if thats enough for an accelero cooler.

And yeah, it is a big step. But since I haven't really used the capabilities of my ATX boards over the last many years, I might as well scale down a bit.

And this just looks crazy:
http://www.ocaholic.ch/xoops/html/modules/xcgal/thumbnails.php?album=1684


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 Post subject: Re: R4/FT02 Mashup
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:59 am 
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How many slots does the Accelero require? I think the Prodigy tops out at 2. You could ask at the BitFenix forums.


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