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 Post subject: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:57 am 
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I am going for sort of quiet, not silence as evidenced by my GTX 560 Ti. (I will look into a different cooler in the near future). That said, I will be also going for a mild to moderate OC which always seems like an oxymoron or a compromise between quiet versus performance. But I think chips, coolers and cases have improved enough it may be more possible now than before.

I will be moving to a Fractal Design R4 from my ancient P180. I'm glad it has the 3 fan controller switch built in. I'll be removing both drive cages in the R4. I currently have two 2.5" drives. No 3.5" will be installed. Just use my eSATA drive dock for all of them. I do not plan on opening the top or side vents and hope by removing both cages I might get enough air. RAM height is a non-issue.

I am considering the Thermalright HR-02 Macho, NZXT Havik 140, Noctua NH-D14. I am stumped. They all have their pros and cons. One fan on HR-02 that matches up well with rear case fan. But may be a tricky mount. Two fans on the Havik 140. NH-DI4 is massive and would be a tight fit. The first two are very close in price.

All three reviews were written by the same person. Not easy to come by. He really liked the Macho the the best FWIW. (Being female it's not the best name IMO). ;)
HR02 review: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ ... eview/1449

NZXT review http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ ... eview/1312

NH-D14 review http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ ... eview/1062

Current ambient temp is 27C. Real Temp idle temps 31-37C with front, back and top 120mm fans in P180
i7-2600K currently @stock
ASRock Z68 Extreme4 Gen3
16GB (4x4) Crucial Ballistix Sport
EVGA GTX 560 Ti FPB
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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:38 pm 
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You don't need all that cooling muscle.

Take a look at Noctua NH-U12P
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... pk=NH-U12P

When the next chip mount comes along you can get a free upgrade from Noctua. You can't get that from any other manufacturer. They also have the most complete compatibility charts of any of their competitors.

Or their one of their downdraft 3 downdraft coolers. According to FrostyTech, their NH-C14 downdraft is really a top performer compared to pretty much any other cooler:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 562&page=5
(at the time they tested it, it beat out all other air coolers in terms of cooling performance, and they have quiet a list of coolers they compared it to)

If not Noctua, try the Prolimatech Megahalens or the Thermalright Venemous X.

These are all comparatively smaller coolers, that have more than enough reserve cooling capability for the system you describe. Each of these, or their close family relatives, is on the SPCR recommended list.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:16 pm 
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No reason to spend more than $50 for what you want, with some good quiet coolers at the $30-35 level.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:31 pm 
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I should have said I want 140mm fans instead of any 120s. My bad.

I agree with JJ. I think $50-$60 is a reasonable price for a cooler. Guess that rules out the Noctua.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:31 pm 
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I should have said I want 140mm fans instead of any 120s. My bad.

I agree with JJ. I think $50-$60 is a reasonable price for a cooler. Guess that rules out the Noctua.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:57 am 
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I just looked at your posted reviews:

They tested the coolers running stock rpm and measured sound levels 10 cm away from the fan in open case. Imho these reviews are not suitable for picking a cooler according to spcr-standards. Or will you run the cpu cooler fans at max rpm?

There is no need to use a 140mm fan in order to cool your cpu quiet. You could easily use a good 120mm model, even Hyper 212 + Nexus fan would be completly sufficient at no oc.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:41 am 
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I personally have a thermalright ultra with some 120mm noctua fan running at 500rpm. Cpu is at stock and its probably as quiet as it can get without going fanless. I cannot hear it unless i open the case and stick my ear next to it. Runs pretty cool too. Granted its on a 3570k, which i belive uses less power than the 2600k at stock.

Since u want quiet, and not silence at your oc profile, i would tend to agree with the others and say these 140mm coolers are overkill. These does leave room for larger ocs if ever want them, which admittedly is tempting. You want to check the available space inside first if you are unsure whether the coolers will fit. Or just a great 120mm cooler to achieve your desire and save some money. You could even get them seriously quiet as well.

If u must have a 140mm cooler in the list to get add aesthetic value or something,then just get the cheapest. But then again, id personally stick with the 120mm coolers. They are just as great for your purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:14 am 
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Hi, I have an over-clocked i7-2600k and I would say that you definitely want all the cooling power you can get! Of course it depends on the amount of OC and the load you want to apply to the CPU.

I'm running mine at 4.5GHz and voltage offset of +0.005 which gives IIRC 1.368v load. I have a NH-C14 cooling it with a pair of Thermalright TY-140 PWM fans and under Folding@home it's not all that quiet to maintain temps ~80°C. Even with the case side panel off it still needs moderate fan speeds, 800~1000rpm I think. Idle I can dial the fans back to 500rpm and dead quiet, just full load that's an issue.
For just gaming etc it's no problem as that doesn't push the CPU anything like that hard, video encoding does though.

If it would have fitted in my case I would have got a massive twin tower cooler like NH-D14 or Silver Arrow.

Seb

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:46 am 
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Pappnaas wrote:
There is no need to use a 140mm fan in order to cool your cpu quiet. You could easily use a good 120mm model, even Hyper 212 + Nexus fan would be completly sufficient at no oc.
Agreed.

Even with overclocking, 120mm does a better job of meeting suchageek's needs. 140mm fans seem like a good idea, but the 120mm fans generally come with better sound/performance envelopes. And they do better in high impedance situations, like heat sinks. I recollect a number of times that the 120mm Nexus has out performed 140mm fans, in fact I don't recollect a time that they haven't. And even in the recent SPRC fan testing, they were upstaged not by a 140mm fan, but by the 120mm Scythe GT.

If suchageek is looking for something under $60, that rules out the Noctua NH-D14. In fact if you take into account fan costs, almost all the good ones are just a bit over $60. The $60 requirement rules out so many alternatives. It sort of leaves only the Scythe Mugen or the Coolermaster 212 (swapping in a nexus or Scythe fan bring the coolermaster cost up as well)

So if suchageek wants reasonable size, it is the Coolermaster 212. If she wants lots of cooling, then it is the Scythe Mugen... both of which use 120mm fans. That $60 limit screens out a lot of options.

Don't forget that you just don't need that much cooling, even for an overclocked CPU, except when you are running benchmarks or such that put a heavy sustained load on the CPU. You do want enough cooling capacity to prevent things from cooking if you have an unobserved runaway process, but the Mugen and probably even the Coolermaster can do that.

For example, here is the cooling performance of the coolermaster under a 150 watt load:
http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... 655&page=5
It runs only about 1.5 C hotter than the NH-D14. Benchmarks seem to vary a lot from site to site... but not that much. Put a Nexus or a Scythe PWM fan on it and you have something there.

I am just not seeing anything else out there, other than these two, that meet suchageek's needs for under $60. I see nothing with a 140mm fan that does. Am I missing something?

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:56 am 
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SebRad wrote:
If it would have fitted in my case I would have got a massive twin tower cooler like NH-D14 or Silver Arrow.
Interestingly, Frostytech rates the NH-C14 as a better performer than the NH-D14 (opposite of how SPCR ranks them)

I would submit that there is such variance between different sites reviews, that when all the sites rank a cooler as high as either of these, they are about the same in cooling capacity.

So maybe you got the right cooler anyways... and the only way you could have added greater cooling capacity would have been to use water cooling.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:03 am 
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Thanks for the replies and suggestions. But they raise more questions.

I am inclined to use a 140 fan as the new R4 has a 140 rear fan. For instance with the single fan used on the Thermalright HR-02, it would almost line up with the rear fan. That would eliminate a second fan used on the Havik. The default fan size in the R4 is 140. I did read that it can take 120s but why did Fractal make that change then? I have not used a 140 before and figured it would have to spin less. In the case of the HR-02 wouldn't it make sense to use the same fan size for a push/pull? I realize the Noctua uses a 120/140 configuration and that confuses me as well. Most of the replies dash the need for a 140. So now I am more confused guys. I am not such a geek when it comes to fans. :oops:

I do casual gaming and even Skyrim on high graphics gets toasty with 3 120s. One of those is in the top. I eliminated the P280 primarily because there is no easy way to seal that off top vent off. It ships open.

As far as OC. I think 4.4, 4.5 is pretty easy to achieve with a 2600k. I can set up an OC profile in the BIOS and crank the fans when I want to game.

Okay, if price is no object, then what are suggestions? Why no love for the Thermalright HR-02 Macho? I'll take a look at the Coolermaster ces suggested.

Argh, I'm still pulling my hair out! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:13 am 
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Pappnaas wrote:
I just looked at your posted reviews:

They tested the coolers running stock rpm and measured sound levels 10 cm away from the fan in open case. Imho these reviews are not suitable for picking a cooler according to spcr-standards. Or will you run the cpu cooler fans at max rpm?

There is no need to use a 140mm fan in order to cool your cpu quiet. You could easily use a good 120mm model, even Hyper 212 + Nexus fan would be completly sufficient at no oc.


Agreed, an open case is silly for testing. The cooling reviews seems to be so wildly different. I just wanted to post them from the same author for some consistency and failed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:50 am 
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If i got you right you just want to match fan sizes of cooler and case. There is prosumably a physical difference between using a 120mm fan and a 140mm fan in a R4. I doubt you could measure this difference without precise lab-like conditions.

But if you don't match you'll be equally happy AND save some $$.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:11 pm 
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suchageek wrote:
I do casual gaming and even Skyrim on high graphics gets toasty with 3 120s.
Is that a graphics card issue or a CPU issue?

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:16 pm 
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suchageek wrote:
I have not used a 140 before and figured it would have to spin less.
That is a half dozen of one, or 6 of the other:
viewtopic.php?p=541850#p541850

Basically, for whatever the reason, at least when it comes to high impedance heatsink fans, the 140mm fans do not seem to have caught up with the best of the 120mm fans.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:49 pm 
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suchageek wrote:
I do casual gaming and even Skyrim on high graphics gets toasty with 3 120s.
If you know you are going to have a serious heat problem, and price is no object.

1. Start by feeding fresh cold external air directly to your CPU cooler. That is good for 10 to 15C right there.
2. You can do this with a fan duct. Get a red or blue (one is longer than the other) Thermalright 120mm fan duct. Get both and experiment for which will fit your setup best.
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/th12fandubl.html
3. Get a good downdraft CPU heatsink. The Noctua NH-C14 will work. Use two Nexus 120mm fans or two 120mm Scythe GT or two 120mm PWM fans.
4. Use the Thermalright fan duct to duct cold air to the top fan. The bottom fan will make sure to cool your motherboard VRMs

Now, is that isn't good enough, you will have to try a water cooler. Just remember though:
1. If one of your two air cooler fans breaks down, it is unlikely to do any damage at all.
2. If your pump breaks down you are going to over heat something. You hope that your CPU goes to 110C and then shuts down. If you are just idling or using it to browse, you could cook your motherboard, and its tender capacitors, with 100C for days without knowing it. Same thing if your water cooler fan breaks. And you also have serious problems if you spring a leak.

viewtopic.php?p=563366#p563366

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:14 pm 
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ces wrote:
suchageek wrote:
I do casual gaming and even Skyrim on high graphics gets toasty with 3 120s.
Is that a graphics card issue or a CPU issue?


It mostly offloads to the GPU in Skyrim and I was mistakenly OCing all wrong, I set it to 4.5 auto before learning that produces too much voltage. I got to 80C on the GPU but that's well within the limit. I can't remember what the CPU temps were, but I would recall if I was concerned. After learning I didn't set the offset, I just set it to stock for now. My point though was that I have 3 120s In my current crummy case and stock h/s/f. I have an Aerocool Shark Black Edition 120mm Case Fan (1500 RPM) mounted in the rear.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835129055
The front and top fans are Scythe Slip Stream 120mm 1,200 RPM Case Fans. All 3 are running full bore. I was limited to Micro Center selections. My original True Quiet fans finally wore out and I needed something to slap in there.

No water block for me. I now they have improved but the R4 isn't really an easy fit if at all. I don't know about using a duct. I've worked on many that used them back in the day. EDIT: Wow! That duct does not look like the old white tubes used before.

I have to read about downdraft h/s.

EDIT: After a LOT of research and considering everything like the Fractal R4 design and components I decided to go with the Thermalright HR-02 Macho. I like that it will line up with the rear exhaust with one fan but still a push/pull. Thermalright TY-140 Utra-low noise 900~1300RPM fan looks good too. I was tempted by the Noctua but the lack of PWM fans was the tie-breaker. So thanks to everyone for the advice and suggestions. I'll check back after I move to the R4 and cooler.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:54 pm 
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suchageek wrote:
I decided to go with the Thermalright HR-02 Macho. I like that it will line up with the rear exhaust with one fan but still a push/pull.
Try this cheap trick on the Macho to get a few more degrees of cooling. It seems like it would be particularly effective on the Macho with its deep but widely spaced fins:
viewtopic.php?p=563462#p563462

Please let us know if it helps.

Also experiment with reversing the airflow so that the fresh air is fed in directly to your CPU heatsink from your back fan. I have a Lian Li A05 that comes stock that way. It works very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Thanks for the tip. I guess it doesn't matter that it mounts horizontally? How does one fasten the collar?

Also ordered the Fractal Design R4 in Titanium Grey. The case fans and my PSU are white so I was tempted to get the white one. But too hard IMO to keep clean.

Both parts are coming from different vendors so I hope the HR-02 Macho arrives before next weekend. The case will arrive midweek.

Going to stick with push/pull.

"And it can use the exhaust system fan to improve its own performance. Besides, the HR-02 is a one-way heatsink. It means that the airflow should go in one direction only to achieve maximum performance: from the straight pipes to the slanting ones. If the airflow goes in the opposite direction (i.e. when you install a fan on the other side or turn the heatsink around on the socket as in the right photo), the peak CPU temperature grows by 3°C. That’s not much, but even such trifles may be important."
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... html#sect0


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:16 pm 
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suchageek wrote:
Thanks for the tip. I guess it doesn't matter that it mounts horizontally? How does one fasten the collar?
how about aluminum foil?

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Nope. Not going to use aluminum foil.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:52 pm 
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ces wrote:
suchageek wrote:
Thanks for the tip. I guess it doesn't matter that it mounts horizontally? How does one fasten the collar?
how about aluminum foil?

suchageek wrote:
Nope. Not going to use aluminum foil.
Yeah, I think you are right. What about some craft paper or some cardboard (from say a cereal box) and some tape. Certainly good enough to experiment with.

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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:17 pm 
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I have the extact same CPU and a GTX680. I went for the Noctua DH-14... was also considering the CH-14 but I liked the idea of venting the heat out the rear of the case to keep the warm air from getting into my GPU.

The DH-14 is an excellent cooler and very, very quiet once fitted with the ULNA adaptors supplied by Noctua. I highly recommend it with one BIG caveat.. it's an absolute pain in the ass to install due to its sheer size. In order to get the thing to fit in my system, I had to remove all the heatspreaders off my DDR-RAM and shift the fan down on the heatsink in order to get the case closed.

Pictures online do not put the sheer size of this thing in perspective.. I mean, it's friggin huge but once its installed you'll have a very quiet CPU cooler that will keep your idle and load temps right down to levels only achieved by other noisier high RPM coolers. I fired up 100% CPU load for an hour and the temps were 5-10c better than my old water-cooled all in one unit which made at least twice the noise.

If you want it even more quiet and are happy to take a bit more heat under load, buy a fan controller as well and turn the Noctua fans down even lower.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:03 am 
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There is also a SE2011 version of the NH-D14 where both fans support PWM (currently no pwm version for the NF-P14 is available separately) and can go down as low as 300 rpm, but you'd have to buy a mounting kit to mount it on a different socket.


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 Post subject: Re: Pulling My Hair Out-Cooler Choices
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:34 am 
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I decided on the Thermalright HR-02 Macho. It was delivered today. New Egg does not carry it. It came from an Amazon partner. I opted for one fan. It mounts horizontally and will line up pretty well with the rear fan.

My Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey arrived Tuesday. :) Has fan controller for 3 fans. Already removed the top drive cage. Will remove the other as well.

I haven't inspected the heat sink yet, but if it arrived in good shape I will be moving everything over this weekend.

It would be nice to run the Intel stock h/s/f and have temps to compare in the R4, but it's too much work to pull everything twice.

If anyone is interested in the link...
http://www.amazon.com/ThermalRight-HR-0 ... B005ERSN7G


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