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 Post subject: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:26 pm 
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I don't know if this has been asked before, and I cannot seem to find any answer to my questions with Intel.
If you don't overclock your CPU:

is the Ivy Bridge CPU's generating more heat than the Sandy Bridge CPU's ?

And, if I buy the Asus P8z77-v PRO board, will I be able to use Lucid Virtu and Intel HD 4000 Graphics chip, with Sandy Bridge, or do you have to have a Ivy Bridge CPU for that?
Can Lucid Virtu really "shutdown" your discrete graphics card when you are not playing games?

Thanks for any help here :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:36 am 
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CPUs are THE most effective heating elements, even commercial heaters can hardly keep up.
Ivy Bridge uses less power than Sandy Bridge (77W vs. 95W) so less power can be converted to heat so overall the CPU produces less heat overall.
Ivy Bridge is produced in a more advanced processing node than Sandy Bridge (22nm vs 32nm) so all elements on the chip are smaller and therefore packed more tightly (There is also an advanced transistor layout to augment this -> see FinFet).
Per mm2 Ivy Bridge produces more heat than Sandy Bridge. The heat transfer is also less effective since the contact area is smaller. Ivy Bridge also uses lousy TIM inside the chip to make matters even worse. Intel knew this in advance (of course) and increased Tjun (Maximum temp before throttling) to 105deg Cent. from 98deg Cent. in Sandy Bridge.
Summary:
Ivy Bridge produces less heat overall, but still runs hotter mainly because it's that much smaller than Sandy Bridge.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:29 am 
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Thanks for replying boost.

Your answer is pretty worrying.
This tells me that the 22nm technology is really not ready for the consumer market.
Not if less heat and more silence is something you prioritize.

If you were about to buy a new Desktop / HTPC, would the motherboard Asus P8Z77-V PRO,
and a Intel core I5 2500K 3300mhz be a wise choice?
And then wait for intel to fix the heat problem regarding Ivy Bridge? If one really needs it ofcourse.


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:40 am 
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Woody wrote:
Your answer is pretty worrying.
This tells me that the 22nm technology is really not ready for the consumer market.

It's physics. Happens all the time the die shrinks. Relax, dude. 8)

Intel fcuked up with the TIM etc, no big deal unless you're into overclocking a lot.

Woody wrote:
If you were about to buy a new Desktop / HTPC, would the motherboard Asus P8Z77-V PRO,
and a Intel core I5 2500K 3300mhz be a wise choice?

i5 3570K is a good choice today. It's a bit cooler, a bit faster than the i5 2500K. Depends on how much power you need really. If a Celeron G530 does the job, why overspend?

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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:44 am 
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Don't worry!
If you keep within spec you're covered by warranty. Which I never needed even with heavily oced CPUs on air going for years.
The power draw of Ivy Bridge is lower than previous generation and the performance is slightly higher. Job well done.
Cooling will become a concern in the future because TJun cannot be raised indefinitely, but if it works, why fix it?
Good cooling keeps the component temperature within spec. Efficient cooling can do it silently. If you don't have to cool your CPU to an artificially low 70 deg cent. Ivy Bridge is easier to cool (keep in spec and even silently) than Sandy Bridge.
Woody wrote:
If you were about to buy a new Desktop / HTPC, would the motherboard Asus P8Z77-V PRO,
and a Intel core I5 2500K 3300mhz be a wise choice?

Get the 3570K.
Sandy Bridge is only for hardcore overclocking. It might be easier to reach 5GHz with Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge is a little more efficient so 4.7-4.8GHz is roughly the same as 5GHz Sandy, only it's below 5GHz. If that MHz number is somehow magical to you, you need Sandy Bridge :lol: .
Intelligent people use new efficient tech within spec and smile because it makes life easier.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:49 am 
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Vicotnik, thanks for replying.
I see in your signature that you are using a Ivy Bridge i5 3570.
What is the CPU's temperature under normal use? (websurfing, watching a movie and so on)


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:03 am 
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boost wrote:
Don't worry!
If you keep within spec you're covered by warranty. Which I never needed even with heavily oced CPUs on air going for years.
The power draw of Ivy Bridge is lower than previous generation and the performance is slightly higher. Job well done.
Cooling will become a concern in the future because TJun cannot be raised indefinitely, but if it works, why fix it?
Good cooling keeps the component temperature within spec. Efficient cooling can do it silently. If you don't have to cool your CPU to an artificially low 70 deg cent. Ivy Bridge is easier to cool (keep in spec and even silently) than Sandy Bridge.
Woody wrote:
If you were about to buy a new Desktop / HTPC, would the motherboard Asus P8Z77-V PRO,
and a Intel core I5 2500K 3300mhz be a wise choice?

Get the 3570K.
Sandy Bridge is only for hardcore overclocking. It might be easier to reach 5GHz with Sandy Bridge. Ivy Bridge is a little more efficient so 4.7-4.8GHz is roughly the same as 5GHz Sandy, only it's below 5GHz. If that MHz number is somehow magical to you, you need Sandy Bridge :lol: .
Intelligent people use new efficient tech within spec and smile because it makes life easier.


Hehe. The reason I ask these questions is that I'm used to a completely inaudible PC that resides underneath my TV in my livingroom. This machine can run anything you throw at it and stil shut the f**k up :wink:
Except when playing 1080p games with "high" settings games. To accomplish this I had to choose my hardware very wisely, and it was a long way to go. Trial and error. Eventually I ended up with a large HTPC case and scythe fans and a seasonic PSU.
And now i'm going to build a new silent monster :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 am 
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Woody wrote:
Vicotnik, thanks for replying.
I see in your signature that you are using a Ivy Bridge i5 3570.
What is the CPU's temperature under normal use? (websurfing, watching a movie and so on)

i just built one for my brother. CPU temps have yet to climb even close to 30c, under normal use. (and thats just with one heat and cool cycle on the thermal paste...xigmatek sd1283 gaia.)

edit.
an hour of running prime on the 3570 has the hottest core at 46-48c/idle is about 22c.

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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:05 am
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Thanks so far guys!
Both the motherboard and the i5-3570K, have been ordered.
I'll get back here when everything is installed and tested :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:51 pm 
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48C at full load (even if Prime95 is less than 100% load) is low for Ivy Bridge. AFAIK early samples were ~10C hotter.
Is there a new revision of the chip, maybe just a better TIM inside the heatspreader that explains the acceptable temps?


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Tzupy wrote:
48C at full load (even if Prime95 is less than 100% load) is low for Ivy Bridge. AFAIK early samples were ~10C hotter.
Is there a new revision of the chip, maybe just a better TIM inside the heatspreader that explains the acceptable temps?

possibly.. the cpu was part number bx80637153570k, batch number was 3222b285 if anyone cares.
fan was @ ~960 rpm and 48c. at 600rpm it went up to 50-52. temps from fanexpert.
the computer is now in my brothers wife's car driving across country, so i cant run any other tests.... (seriously thinking of building myself one just like soon tho)

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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 2:05 am
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Hi.
Just to update this thread.
i5-3570K is pretty silent under normal use even with the stock fan from Intel. Although I'm going to buy an aftermarket cpu cooler later.

The Asus P8z77-v PRO contains some nifty software too, which let's you tweak and test your internal chassis fans and CPU fans.
This, in turn, will make your PC almost dead silent.
The temps are around 24 to 28 celsius according to monitoring software during normal use.

I'm very satisfied with my new setup.
Thanks for all help :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Ivy Bridge VS Sandy Bridge
PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:58 pm
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i use standard fan scaling on my hyper212 evo with a noctua nf f12... 300rpm idle and 750rpm load, max temp of 72c at 4.2ghz


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