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 Post subject: Sanyo Denki
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:16 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 37
Does anyone here have experience with Sanyo Denki (San Ace) fans? I recently purchased a San Ace 9S1212L4011 after hearing good things about them. However, I find myself slightly disappointed with their performance. Firstly, the fan specifications seem fabricated, at least in my situation. Sanyo claims 1500rpm/17db, which is incorrect - the fan generates an audible noise, much louder than my GT AP-13 at ~1100 rpms. Also, it has a distinct rattle, which can be heard close up. The GT, on the other hand, has a slight noise when listened to up close, however it is just air - no rattles. Secondly, the airflow from the GT seemed superior at a given fan speed, or at the very least equivalent.

I didn't want to put this in the user review section because I have not done any proper tests and do not have access to proper noise equipment. I will probably do some quick temperature tests at standardised rpms later, but for now I am too lazy :D In the meantime, does anyone else have any experiences with said fans?

PS. Since the fan did not come with a fan tail, i crimped some 'terminals' i believe they are called (little red plastic hubs) between the fan tail/wires of an old fan and my San Ace. Is there any problems with this method with regards to fan performance? I did not use any solder.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanyo Denki
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:40 am 
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Location: Essex, England
Quote:
Sanyo claims 1500rpm/17db, which is incorrect


Incorrect..... LOL, that's pure bullshit, fresh, smelly and steaming.

For example, here are some fine and quiet fans tested recently in the SPCR anechoic chamber that can measure noises that you can barely detect.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1266-page1.html

You wont find a fan that really emits 17Db at 1500 rpm, in reality its usually about 1100 rpm for the better 120mm fans, but even then that needs to be put into perspective. rpm vs noise is all well and good, but how much air does the fan move at those noise levels vs another fan.? Some do well as case fans and much worse as CPU fans due to the extra pressure required because of the dense stack of fins.

"Rule Number 1 of fan selection, never ever believe what the fan manufacturer says about anything except the fan dimensions, even the rpm varies from fan to fan (usually within 50-150 rpm).

Rule Number 2 of fan selection, read an SPCR review of the fans.

Rule Number 3 of fan selection, if there isn't an SPCR review, look through the forums.

Rule Number 4 of fan selection, if there is no mention of that fan create a post as you have just done."

As a general rule of thumb most 1500 rpm fans will operate correctly @ 5v (e.g. startup every time), the startup voltages are listed on the SPCR reviews, however some fans perform much worse than other when under-volted, so overall you are best off finding a fan that will push the amount of air that you want it to at a noise level that is suitable.

Quote:
I didn't want to put this in the user review section because I have not done any proper tests and do not have access to proper noise equipment.


Would have been fine in there as what you have said just there is more than 99% of review on the internet will ever do, in reality it will get more exposure and comment in the fan section.

Quote:
PS. Since the fan did not come with a fan tail, i crimped some 'terminals' i believe they are called (little red plastic hubs) between the fan tail/wires of an old fan and my San Ace. Is there any problems with this method with regards to fan performance? I did not use any solder.


I dont follow.

Have a look at this basic but easy to follow wiring guide.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article6-page1.html

It shows you how to get 5v, 7v and 12v, which are the only choices for "hard wiring" (e.g. fixed speed), otherwise you need a real fan controller or to connect the fan to the motherboard and controlling it via the BIOS, or Speedfan. I have a mixture in various computers.

My server has all fans fixed @ 5v, my work PC has a wrong way facing front case fan in a Sonata MK1, but that's because the side panel never gets put on, with the CPU fan controlled via the BIOS (also by far the loudest PC because of this), and my main PC has the case fans fixed @ 5v the CPU fan controlled via Speedfan and the 2 fans on the graphics card controlled by the graphics card BIOS - there is no reason to not mix and match, and likewise mixing and matching different types of fan is also perfectly OK.

The only warning to give is to make sure you dont cause any "short-circuits" and dont re-wire molex connectors coming from the PSU because if you plug anything else in further down the chain you will be passing the wrong voltages down the wrong lines. The easiest way to get 5v or 7v 3-ping connectors is to buy them ready made. some examples below.

Here are a load of pre-made models that you just plug in, the cheapest option for 1-2 fans @ 5v is the "Akasa AK-CB001" model selling for £2, it has 2x hard wired 5v connectors and 2x hard wired 12v connectors.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/search_re ... lex%203pin

Also available from dozens of places via eBay - just make sure that the fan you are planning on under-volting is perfectly happy to start at the voltage you want it to.


Andy

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Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


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 Post subject: Re: Sanyo Denki
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:58 pm
Posts: 37
Haha yes it is bullshit, but I had to test it for myself :P I have read through the fan roundup, and am eagerly awaiting the 2nd one. My old cpu fan was an AP-13, which is very quiet and easily keeps my system in check and whose noise values are corroborated by silentpc's testing. I'm currently still using the San Ace but I will switch back to the AP soon :) I understand what you are saying, noise/airflow ratio is very important, and from the roundup the AP-12 was the most impressive at low noise levels, as was the AP-14

I was skeptical but some of their other measurements seemed on the money, it was just this one that seemed a little...inflated.

http://www.overclock.net/t/654600/conve ... g1212h1011

This article shows you what I meant by connecting the 'terminals', there is a picture of little plastic hubs over the fan wires - this is what I did. The San Ace came with bare wires, of which i crimped inside the plastic hub, along with the fan header/wires of the old Silverstone fan. I use a fan controller to regulate speeds, I was just concerned that the crimping method could impede performance (maybe more noise or something like that.)


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 Post subject: Re: Sanyo Denki
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:00 pm
Posts: 3302
Location: Essex, England
I looked at all of the pictures, I was still not 100% certain as to the point of the wiring except to extend the wires.

I assume (although its not pictured) that 2 fans were wired up to the same 3-pin fan connector which was then connected to the motherboard. Personally I would not do that, although I dont know what it is, there is a Amp limit for the 3-pin motherboard fan headers, as they are only designed for a single fan I would not wire 2 fans to one header.

Through a molex its a different matter a single molex connector can power 10 high-speed fans without breaking a sweat.


Andy

_________________
Main PC, P180, CM Silent Pro 500M, i5 3570k @ 4.2Ghz, 8-GB @ 2,000MHz, 256 GB Samsung 830, 500-GB 7K500, MSI 660Ti Twin Frozr, PC is super quiet :o
Server, 6-TB RAID-5 array, + 2 x 2-TB backup drives, 380W Enermax Pro82+, 4x very quiet fans, positive pressure only, no exhaust fans
Living Room PC, 3500+, 2-GB RAM, HD501LJ


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 Post subject: Re: Sanyo Denki
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Posts: 12027
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I have no experience with the L401, only the H403 model that comes in the Seasonic X PSUs. They are definitely not quiet at full speed, but they have the ability to run at incredibly low voltage (and speed), despite not being a PWM fan. I think this is their most important asset -- the operational speed (and noise) range is huge, and they do have great quality bearings (AFAI can tell). None of my samples (a few) exhibited the spurious noises you refer to.

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