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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Irrelevant wrote:
So let me give another example: Romney has explicitly stated that he will not reduce benefits for those who are currently retired or soon to be retired (or in other words, current members of AARP), so regardless of which presidential candidate is elected, they will support the continued spending of your tax dollars on Viagra for dirty old men.


Of course, that statement is carefully crafted to assuage the apprehensions of retired and near retired voters (although just maybe those voters might be concerned about their offspring?) and like his entire campaign strategy, reveals as little as possible. Romney can't and won't reduce the federal budget much in the areas he preaches disdain for because he will save the commercial interests that contribute to it (and him.)

However, he could devastate in areas where big vested interests aren't much involved, i.e. direct aid to the poor.


By the way, there are better and much less expensive ways of treating that particular condition than Viagra.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Will 2013 be the United States of Romneyworld?

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Because he says they're people too.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Reachable wrote:
Of course, that statement is carefully crafted to assuage the apprehensions of retired and near retired voters (although just maybe those voters might be concerned about their offspring?) and like his entire campaign strategy, reveals as little as possible. Romney can't and won't reduce the federal budget much in the areas he preaches disdain for because he will save the commercial interests that contribute to it (and him.)

I don't think anyone will support significant changes for already retired or near-retired people because these people have planed their lives based on the long existing programs. In that respect, I think Romney is sincere about his statements. About the only thing I have heard is means-testing benefits, etc. Since this is like increasing taxes for the rich, I don't see why Democrats would oppose that (except that they can practice demagoguery and use that to strike fear in all older people claiming that Republicans want to destroy SS, Medicare, etc for all people).

But it makes sense to look at these programs long-term and restructure them so that they will still be there as financially sound programs in some form 25 years from now, rather than just lying to people by promising no changes ever to these programs, and then having the whole system collapse because the math just wont support it in the future due to lower birth rates (less workers able to pay taxes for larger numbers of retired people in the long term). The only other option 25 years from now will be to print money like crazy and then the US will become just another Banana Republic.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:46 pm 
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Reachable wrote:
... (although just maybe those voters might be concerned about their offspring?) ...
Foresight? From Americans!? Surely you jest! :lol:

Reachable wrote:
However, he could devastate in areas where big vested interests aren't much involved, i.e. direct aid to the poor.
Perhaps, but where's the pay-off for him? If Romney drastically cut food-stamps, for example, he'd expend significant political capital to get the bill through Congress, and immediately after, the non-Fox News channels would be awash with pictures of starving children and tales of misery and woe. Even worse, he'd piss off the monetarily and intellectually impoverished rednecks that represent a large chunk of his voting base.

By and large, elected officials say much and do little until a lobbyist writes them a big check. Pro bono work requires strong beliefs, and from what I can tell, Romney believes just one thing (at least in a political sense): that he should be president. To quote a truly awesome New Yorker cartoon, "He's either a psychopath or he's appealing to his base."

Reachable wrote:
By the way, there are better and much less expensive ways of treating that particular condition than Viagra.
My comments about ED meds for the elderly were for illustrative purposes, and not to present my opinion on the matter. (I don't know enough about it to have one.) However, I suspect worrying about it at this point is like worrying about the brand of case-damping material on your case's floor when it's packed with 10,000 rpm, ball-bearing fans. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:06 am 
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Irrelevant wrote:
Foresight? From Americans!? Surely you jest! :lol:

Indoctrination of the masses requires a great deal of foresight. Look at Faux News applying the propaganda OJ Simspson-style. Keep lying until it sticks.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:41 am 
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aristide1 wrote:
Indoctrination of the masses requires a great deal of foresight.
No, it requires foresighted indoctrinators and short-sighted masses. I was referring to the American masses, not its leadership. My apologies for my lack of specificity.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Irrelevant wrote:
aristide1 wrote:
Indoctrination of the masses requires a great deal of foresight.
No, it requires foresighted indoctrinators and short-sighted masses. I was referring to the American masses, not its leadership. My apologies for my lack of specificity.

Agreed.

From the story in ths link:
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/target-b ... d=11270194

Quote:
Emmer told the Minnesota Star Tribune that the controversial rock band "You Can Run But You Cannot Hide," were "nice people," following band member Bradlee Dean's reported comments that Muslim countries that support execution of gays are "more moral than even the American Christians."


So I have a quesiton for m0002a. Since Democratic cult followers are as bad as Republican cult followers perhaps you with your formidable knowledge and resources can find a democratic extremist the equivalent of Bradlee Dean, but on the left. And I'll even cut you a break, the one you name won't have to be as 2 faced (or Romney-like) as Dean, since he states he is not for murdering gays, because as usual on the right you can have have your cake, eat it, or leave it, or most likely, sell it. No just name any lefty as hate filled as this guy (he must be livid we passed specific hate crimes laws). Go ahead, I'd love for you to come up with somebody.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:47 am 
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FYI. 2nd US Presidential debate in full @ 720p if you care - if you dont, please dont tell me, just dont click on the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation ... EpCrcMF5Ps


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:05 pm 
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http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2012-10-25/voter-fraud-and-intimidation

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:29 pm 
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This explain how one-sided and unjust this is (not sure if those outside the UK will be able to watch it).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20091451


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:36 pm 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
Voter ID is a "solution" in search of a problem. Except that their real purpose is to diminish votes from people who tend to be Democratic.


The issue of voter IDs has been a hotly debated topic during the current election. Democrats say the push to enact them by Republican lawmakers is a thinly-veiled attempt to restrict traditionally-liberal voters from access to the polls. Republicans argue it is merely an attempt to curb incidents of voter fraud.


Last edited by kyrie02 on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:49 am 
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I suspect that there will be people who will simply run out of time to vote in some areas today - that will cause some fallout especially if they were in (mostly) Republican areas that artificially restricted early voting and send hordes of voters away whilst they were queuing (this has been reported by BBC news).

I really hope that the American people who are allowed to vote and want to all do so, however it simply seems impossible that there will be 100% satisfaction.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:21 am 
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Quote:
it simply seems impossible that there will be 100% satisfaction.


While 100% is never possible in a real democracy what we're seeing is more of an indoctrination by the Koch Bros and Murdoch to satisfy only themselves. The spreading paranoia of socialism is driving the people towards serfdom, and they're actually happy about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:09 am 
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Hey m0002a, how about this voter fraud, or aren't you opposed to the shenanigans of your party?

http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/06/machine- ... or-romney/

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:22 am 
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There is no real choice both are flawed candidates and for the average Joe out there it won't make a blind bit of difference who wins. The elite look after themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Mr Spocko wrote:
There is no real choice both are flawed candidates

No. The candidates are fine. The system is flawed.

America is not a democracy anymore. It's a plutocracy. Conservative America has stopped trying to get conservative Republicans into office. That's too much of a risk. They've moved on to making sure it doesn't matter who sits in an elected office. They've made sure that they'll get their way come whatever.

The tool for the job has been Fox News, predominantly. Fox News is not the media outlet of the Republican Party, as some say. It's the other way around. The GOP is the political arm of Fox News. Fox News has been fighting the conservative war, predominantly the fiscal conservative war. They've indoctrinized millions of working class people into believing they are middle class and will benefit from tax cuts, labor reform and privatization of everything.

They've pushed the Republican Party into ridiculous positions - along with the Christian right. They go about this by shouting out every moderate guy/gal and heavily pushing the crazies. The 2012 Republican primaries were a farce. The only viable candidate was Romney - from the beginning. But Fox News fought hard against him, grinded him down. They pushed every single other candidate - well, apart from Huntsman and Paul. They made Christian lunatics like Bachman and Santorum frontrunners. They've promoted IDIOTS like Perry, Cain and Palin (even though she wasn't even in the race). They even favored Newt Gingrich, a man even his mother must think of as an a--hole. They did this to grind down Romney. He had to twist himself into ever more ridiculous positions.
If should win the election, he will be the most powerless president ever. Nobody likes him, not in his party, not in his base, not in the general constituency. He will be at the complete mercy of the powers that be.

Just like George W. Bush, the most intellectually challenged occupant of the Oval Office yet.
And that's what the end game is. People must lose their faith in the competence of elected officials. The message is: Just vote for whatever monkey we put on the posters, the real politics are going to made behind the scenes by people you don't get to vote on anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Decades ago Canadian grafitti said the same thing. "If voting could change the system it would be outlawed."

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:01 pm 
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tim851 wrote:
The tool for the job has been Fox News, predominantly.


The tool for the job has been Faux News, predominantly.

Fixed it for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:02 pm 
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I am very happy to see that Obama has been re-elected, rather than the innumerate Romney chap. Ironically it currently looks like Obama has actually lost the popular vote, or its a virtual tie - one day America might change the very bizarre way that the President is chosen..... but that's a whole other topic that I dont wish to discuss in this thread.... I only brought it up because it shows how truly divided the American people are politically.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:25 pm 
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andyb wrote:
it shows how truly divided the American people are politically.


Andy

nearly half of the U.S. thinks the world is less than 10k years old. until that ratio changes drastically, we will remain bitterly divided . (and rest assured, our 'profit over content' media will make sure to keep the split as even for as long as they possibly can...)

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:04 pm 
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Quote:
nearly half of the U.S. thinks the world is less than 10k years old. until that ratio changes drastically, we will remain bitterly divided


Until some famous and/or political heavyweights "come out" as Atheist I cant see that opinion changing dramatically in the next 50-years - this is one of the many problems that the Republican party has going forward, they dont have the Black vote or the Hispanic vote, the "white" population as a percentage is shrinking fast, in ~18-years the "white" population will be less than 50% of the American population - the Republican party needs to drop their "rich-white" target audience and they need to drop their religious ethic otherwise they will have serious problems getting re-elected in the next 8-yeaars IMO.

Also on the BBC I saw a lady (who voted Republican) say that she is concerned that America is heading towards "Communism", I shit you not.... Not towards further liberalism but straight to communism with nothing in-between, I know that the "C-word" is thrown around a lot, but that (sadly) just proves how many Americans have been brainwashed into thinking that "communism" will one day just "appear" in America, people simply do not understand how these things work, and they all seem to vote Republican.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:36 am 
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Actually it seems that voting in America needs more skill than selecting your candidate of choice:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/11 ... 83014.html

How come that a country that flies to the moon and back is not able to conduct a proper voting? Is Ukrania not so far away as i personally thought?


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:49 am 
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Quote:
Actually it seems that voting in America needs more skill than selecting your candidate of choice:


That's just plain stupid, not specifically the "glitch" as it was described, but the simple fact that the main candidates are directly next to each other - that must have been designed by a pure idiot, the chance of someone selecting the wrong candidate by accident is far higher than it needs to be, there should be a clear gap between the candidates in exactly the same way that they are on paper ballots.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:08 am 
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Romney lost his home state and he lost in Nevada which has 11+% unemployment.

It's worth noting dysfunctional California manage to count their votes hours before inept Florida, if not days.

People must still have some level of hope because "none of the above" ended with just 1% in Nevada, a great option IMO.

Now prepare as war on the president goes into overdrive with Murdoch and the Koch Bros spending their billions to finance it. Gridlock ultimately could be Obama's failure, not enough people would be aware why it happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:57 am 
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Pappnaas wrote:

How come that a country that flies to the moon and back is not able to conduct a proper voting?



keep in mind whenever you hear anything about the US.... that nearly half the population is so insanely out of touch with reality, they honestly believe the earth is 10k years old or less.

im actually quite surprised we get anything done at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:18 pm 
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Quote:
keep in mind whenever you hear anything about the US.... that nearly half the population is so insanely out of touch with reality, they honestly believe the earth is 10k years old or less.

im actually quite surprised we get anything done at all.


Its worth noting that Obama only mentioned the "G" word 3 times in his 25-minute speech, 2 of them were right at the end as he was wrapping up.

I found this encouraging as I am sure Billions of people around the world also did, hopefully this trend will continue for the next 4-years and beyond, and eventually end up with the "G" word being absent from speeches as well as American politics in general, not least because it will give American politicians far more credibility both at home and abroad, and will likely save American lives because they wont be perceived as engaging in "Crusades" against other religions which is how they are seen by many Muslims around the world.


Andy

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:17 am 
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Some people see President Obama's re-election as proof that we have entered the end times...

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:13 am 
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The US is like a cautionary tale for the EU. Don't get too close. All you end up with is being chained to people you greatly disagree with all the time. Like an arranged marriage.

And the powers that be play the millenia old game of "Divide and Conquer".

With the way things go, the way radicals are trying to dictate the course of America, I predict dark times. There doesn't seem to be any unifying candidate on the horizon, because like I said, the parties are driven into more extreme positions, the candidates too.

Somebody put it great: The problem is that in America, the two sides aren't even listening to each other anymore. One side watches CNBC and The Daily Show, the other watches FOX News and listens to Talk Radio. There will be a growing gap between the two Americas and sooner or later, a real crisis will emerge from this.


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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 9:27 am 
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NeilBlanchard wrote:
Some people see President Obama's re-election as proof that we have entered the end times...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Voting in America just got a bit harder
PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:11 am 
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Quote:
With the way things go, the way radicals are trying to dictate the course of America, I predict dark times. There doesn't seem to be any unifying candidate on the horizon, because like I said, the parties are driven into more extreme positions, the candidates too.

Somebody put it great: The problem is that in America, the two sides aren't even listening to each other anymore. One side watches CNBC and The Daily Show, the other watches FOX News and listens to Talk Radio. There will be a growing gap between the two Americas and sooner or later, a real crisis will emerge from this.


These kinds of things happen in politics, the next thing that will likely happen is a reformation or a split within the Republican party. A reformation, edging towards centre ground would likely get them re-elected in either 4 or 8 years time (depending on just about everything that could happen in that time period), a split would either make them far more electable, or far less electable because the party faithful will also be split as to who they devote their vote to.

The Democrats pretty much have it made as the party stands for the next election if the economy continues to pick up and there are no further (major) nasty surprises, especially if ObamaCare gets put into place and work effectively, that is something that America desperately needs - a health system that leaves no-one behind, that is not just for the rich and the fortunate, but for everyone.

And Aris, thanks for the picture and those very famous words.


Andy

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