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 Post subject: New first build, would love feedback and tips on components!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Hi everyone, I would like some advice on my first computer build. Would like powerful, fast, efficient computer that is near to silent or ideally silent! Thank you very much for some advice hopefully, looked at a lot of reviews and posts online and the parts I have listed appear to be good buys for being silent/powerful/goodish value and compatible with each other.

Location: UK
Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080 via HDMI to TV

Possible parts based on research:

Intel i5 3570K (£170 amazon)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intel-Gene [...] 056&sr=8-1

Asus P8Z77-V LX (£86 amazon)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asus-Mothe [...] 093&sr=1-1

Seasonic x-400 watt (£105 amazon)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/SeaSonic-X [...] 130&sr=1-1

or

seasonic x-660 watt (£124) depending advice and what is most suitable to system components.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seasonic-X [...] 163&sr=1-1

Would like good value smallish SSD to minimise noise and maximise speed before adding larger HDD in future for media etc which could spin down with inactivity to remove noise.

Looked at quite a few cases and dont want to spend over £50 on one really. Would like great air flow with large fans so they can be run slow and be quiet while effectively cool.
The BitFenix Outlaw Midi Tower Chassis - Black £40 looks like it might do the trick?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/BitFenix-O [...] 859&sr=1-2


Currently there is a deal for cpu (as above), motherboard (as above) and ram at dabs (£290).
Asus Intel Performance Bundle (Includes P8Z77-V LX, Intel Core i5-3570K & 8GB Black Mamba DDR3)
http://www.dabs.com/products/asus- [...] 70k&src=16

I would like this desktop for mostly watching TV/movies and encoding video but for general office applications, surfing and sporadic gaming.

Any advice and tips greatly appreciated! Also any suggestions for a suitable silent/very quiet cpu cooler would be good and case fans.
Thank you everyone :D


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:01 am 
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Is the workload when video editing very high? If not, you could do well with a cheaper CPU.

If you don't use a dedicated GPU, the 400W will be more than enough.

SSD: Any modern SSD perform virtually the same. So choose a reliable one, such as the Crucial M4, Samsung 830/840 or an Intel SSD. These are usually the SSD's mentioned when it comes to reliability.

For cases in that price range, you might also consider the Fractal Design Core 3000 and the NZXT Source 210 (there's also a Elite version). I don't know much about the Bitfenix case.

CPU coolers: The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is a really reasonably priced cooler with great performance. The minimum fan speed is, however, 600 rpm. That's very quiet, but some people may be able to hear it in a very quiet environment. But it costs so little that you can easily afford an aftermarket cooler. There's also the Scythe Mugen 3 and the Arctic Cooling Alpine i30. These coolers should cost less than 50 USD.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:25 am 
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Davevrave wrote:
I would like this desktop for mostly watching TV/movies and encoding video but for general office applications, surfing and sporadic gaming.


I'd throw more money at the case and maybe downgrade the CPU to the i3-3225 if you are on a limited budget. Trading off longer encoding times vs quieter PC.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:52 pm 
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Thank you both for reading my post and your time spent with replies.

After looking at the suggested cases I think the Fractal Design Core 3000 looks like a good bet; it comes with three fans and a speed controller as well as good cooling performance and features for its cost (£52 amazon).

In regards to the PSU I think I'll get the cheaper 400w one as I may never buy a GPU and if I did it probably wouldn’t be very high end so 400w might just about be enough anyway?

About needing the power of the CPU. If I'm honest I doubt I need a CPU so powerful, my thinking was just that it would future proof it for longer and would be very snappy! If I was to get a cheaper CPU could you advise on possible parts/areas of system the money could be better spent in the quest for a silent good value high performance computer!

SSD advice seems simple but effective, ill pick the best values one out of list when I buy.

Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO looks like a great cooler for £25 (amazon) - you mentioned 600 rpm min fan speed; could the fan be swapped for a quieter fan that could run even slower?

Arctic Cooling Freezer i30 (£30 amazon) is 1mm too high for Fractal Design Core 3000 case (but if it was the best cooler I'm sure I could slightly bend case side panel). Min fan speed is 300 rpm. This would presumably mean quieter when idling but wonder how they compare under more load.

SCYTHE Mugen 3 Rev. B is £38 (amazon). Fits case and the reviews appear good but not sure exactly how quiet it is. Min fan speed also 300 rpm.

I came across the Noctua NH-U9B SE2 (£37 amazon) and that sounds like its very quiet and is a smaller heatsink so fit in case better but cool less effectively?

Don’t suppose you have personal preference which is the better cooler in terms of sound mainly. As long as the CPU is cool enough the quietest one would be best. Or would you recommend a cooler that is quieter and more expensive?

Got to admit I’m a bit overwhelmed with all the component choices and some conflicting reviews/hard to compare between products.

Thank you very much again for the help and this is quite a long post also sorry!


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:46 pm 
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You don't need more than a 400W PSU. That will give you more than 100% headroom.

Among the coolers you mentioned, Mugen with its stock fan on a motherboard header set to lowest or silent mode is best for noise and cooling.

SSD -- for sheer reliability, I doubt you can beat the Intels, and the performances difference among similarly priced ones are negligible for non-critical usage.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:03 am 
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Davevrave wrote:
As long as the CPU is cool enough the quietest one would be best. Or would you recommend a cooler that is quieter and more expensive?


If you don't intend to overclock the CPU then the Mugen 3 will easily do the trick.

Davevrave wrote:
Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO looks like a great cooler for £25 (amazon) - you mentioned 600 rpm min fan speed; could the fan be swapped for a quieter fan that could run even slower?

Arctic Cooling Freezer i30 (£30 amazon) is 1mm too high for Fractal Design Core 3000 case (but if it was the best cooler I'm sure I could slightly bend case side panel). Min fan speed is 300 rpm. This would presumably mean quieter when idling but wonder how they compare under more load.


Cooler Master: The fan can easily be swapped for another 120 mm fan. And since you'll save so much money by going with this cooler there'll be enough money left for a good PWM fan

Arctic Cooling: The cooler looks nice and I quite fancy fans from Arctic Cooling. But it hasn't been reviewed here at SPCR so I can't comment on its performance. Other tech sites have reviewed it but they don't have the stock fan run at the same speed or noise level when they compare different CPU coolers. So those are unfair comparisons for a silent PC enthusiast.

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Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Updated components list.

Intel i5 3570K (£170 amazon) (possibly be downgraded to cheaper slower intel processor)

Asus P8Z77-V LX (£86 amazon)

Seasonic x-400 watt (£105 amazon)

Fractal Design Core 3000 (£52 amazon)

SCYTHE Mugen 3 Rev. B is (£38 amazon)

Intel 180GB 330 Series MLC 2.5" 25nm SATA 6GB/s 9.5mm SSD (£90 dabs (limited time offer))
http://www.dabs.com/products/intel-180g ... 5004&src=3

Corsair XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3 1600Mhz DIMM 240-pin CL9 1.65V (£26 dabs (limited time offer))
http://www.dabs.com/products/corsair-xm ... html?src=3

Total spend = £567

Based on the components listed above the computer should be very quiet. The only sources of noise will be the Fractal Design core 3000 3x included case fans (which do come with a fan controller or could be motherboard controlled) and the Mugen 3. Does anyone think that the computer will be nearly silent/inaudible and if not which component swaps should be made please?

Thank you to kuzzia, CA_Steve and MikeC for their suggestions and advice so far :) it has been greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:57 pm 
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theres no need for the "k" version i5, if youre not overclocking.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:27 pm 
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The fan on the Mugen is so quiet (with proper PWM control, but ASUS excels in this regard) that it's inaudible to hear. Personally, fans only becomes audible when they reach 500-700 rpm during nights with no trafic or anything noisy in the background. And I have to put to be closer to the computer than 1 m. The Fractal fans will probably be able to run at these speeds when undervolted, but perhaps the tiny amount of noise that they emit aren't noticeable by you. So I'd advise you to try the fans first to see whether you can hear them. There's a good chance that you don't :)

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Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:20 pm 
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The stock Mugen 3 fan is superb. On my intel board it stays < 400 rpm on idle/moderate load. Obviously I can't hear it. One advice though: IT NEEDS A SERIOUS AMOUNT OF LAPPING.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:31 pm 
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xan_user wrote:
theres no need for the "k" version i5, if youre not overclocking.

Thanks for the tip, I knew it already and my thinking is that if I get the K I can possibly overclock in the future depending on performance and temps. Think I read somewhere about underclocking to reduce temps but that wouldnt be ideal!

kuzzia wrote:
The fan on the Mugen is so quiet (with proper PWM control, but ASUS excels in this regard) that it's inaudible to hear

ghia wrote:
The stock Mugen 3 fan is superb. On my intel board it stays < 400 rpm on idle/moderate load. Obviously I can't hear it. One advice though: IT NEEDS A SERIOUS AMOUNT OF LAPPING.


Thank you for that advice, reasuring that you both think it is very quiet. Little off putting that it may need lots of lapping! Never lapped before but I am willing to put time into doing it for temp and thus acoustic benefits.

kuzzia wrote:
So I'd advise you to try the fans first to see whether you can hear them


Will do and thanks for the 500-700 rpm is basically silent tip.

I shall hopefully buy the components and assemble soon. Will report back on build and the acoustic performance.
Thank you so much for the replies everyone they have been really helpful :D


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:23 pm 
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ghia wrote:
The stock Mugen 3 fan is superb. On my intel board it stays < 400 rpm on idle/moderate load. Obviously I can't hear it. One advice though: IT NEEDS A SERIOUS AMOUNT OF LAPPING.


What does "lapping" mean?

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Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


"SSD's: The difference between a casual jogger and a dog chasing a ball"


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:46 am 
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Davevrave wrote:
Asus P8Z77-V LX (£86 amazon)

Fractal Design Core 3000 (£52 amazon)

Why not go MicroATX? You're not putting many components in so dropping down the form factor is logical.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:26 am 
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kuzzia wrote:
What does "lapping" mean?


Sanding down the plate on the heatsink that makes contact with the cpu so that it is really smooth and flat (this maximises surface area of contact and minimises thermal paste needed resulting in lower temps) I believe, but correct me if I'm wrong anyone.

edh wrote:
Why not go MicroATX? You're not putting many components in so dropping down the form factor is logical.


Wouldnt that possibly limit airflow, increase the temps and result in fans having to run faster and be louder to cool same amount? If Im wrong please let me know and ideally suggest possible components.

Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:46 am 
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Davevrave wrote:
Wouldnt that possibly limit airflow, increase the temps and result in fans having to run faster and be louder to cool same amount?


If you do it wrong, yes. If you do it correctly, no, it will be quieter and cooler. In effect you're only going to have one major source of heat, the CPU. Having a massive case means that air will take the path of least resistance, hence you still have to fit a large number of fans to cover it's volume. In a smaller case you can build a greater pressure with a smaller number of fans.

MicroATX motherboard choice is pretty broad, as you're already looking at Asus, just see what equivalent products Asus does for MicroATX.

For a MicroATX case unfortunately the Core 1000 is perhaps not so suitable given it's PSU and fan arrangement. The Arc Mini or Define Mini would be better but the Define is more expensive. Outside of that the Silverstone TJ-08 or TJ-08E would be good candidates.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:24 am 
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The scythe needs sanding because of it's evident concave base and bad contact with your 1155 socket.. But if do that temps will improve big time. I gained about 8 deg C idle and around 10 deg C on load after lapping and artic silver 5 "burnout"

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:42 am 
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edh wrote:
For a MicroATX case unfortunately the Core 1000 is perhaps not so suitable given it's PSU and fan arrangement. The Arc Mini or Define Mini would be better but the Define is more expensive. Outside of that the Silverstone TJ-08 or TJ-08E would be good candidates.


Silverstone is £90 so too expensive, the arc mini is £74 and the define £79. Do you personally think it is worth £20-£30 for the smaller case vs the Fractal core 3000? Better cooling, quieter and still able to fit in all wanted components (and as a bonus take up less space) may tempt me! Thank you edh :)


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:47 am 
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ghia wrote:
The scythe needs sanding because of it's evident concave base and bad contact with your 1155 socket.. But if do that temps will improve big time. I gained about 8 deg C idle and around 10 deg C on load after lapping and artic silver 5 "burnout"


Wow 8-10 deg C is a massive change. Any idea if you were just unlucky with the scythe or are they all like it? Also is arctic silver 5 "burnout" the thermal paste that you would recommend using or are there better cheaper or more expensive ones that would be better suited? Also was ur lapping method same as http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/lapping/ and any tips for it? Thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:20 am 
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Davevrave wrote:
edh wrote:
For a MicroATX case unfortunately the Core 1000 is perhaps not so suitable given it's PSU and fan arrangement. The Arc Mini or Define Mini would be better but the Define is more expensive. Outside of that the Silverstone TJ-08 or TJ-08E would be good candidates.


Silverstone is £90 so too expensive, the arc mini is £74 and the define £79. Do you personally think it is worth £20-£30 for the smaller case vs the Fractal core 3000? Better cooling, quieter and still able to fit in all wanted components (and as a bonus take up less space) may tempt me! Thank you edh :)


The case lasts much longer than any other part of the computer and it's the thing you look at when you see the computer. Think of it as a long-term investment. I'd definitely spend the extra cash to purchase something that I'd really want and more practical since it's smaller. The Mini also has the advantage that it has fan vent covers and doesn't have a meshed front grill (so noise won't leak from this place). And it's smaller making it much more practical.

Edit: A closer look at Fractal's home site shows that the Core 3000 and the Mini are indeed quite similar in size. The 3000 is a bit taller but the Mini is both deeper and wider. There goes the argument about size.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:34 am 
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Heatsink bases have a certain degree of variance; I'd try your Mugen before leaping into lapping. Our sample performed very well without lapping... and even if it isn't quite as good as ours, normal usage -- including extreme gaming -- is far less demanding than the Prime95 torture testing we run. The other thing about lapping is that the CPU should really be lapped as well -- if you find that it is concave, as so many are.

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:35 am 
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MikeC wrote:
Heatsink bases have a certain degree of variance; I'd try your Mugen before leaping into lapping. Our sample performed very well without lapping... and even if it isn't quite as good as ours, normal usage -- including extreme gaming -- is far less demanding than the Prime95 torture testing we run. The other thing about lapping is that the CPU should really be lapped as well -- if you find that it is concave, as so many are.


By "Our sample" do you mean the sample that we can expect to see a review of soon?

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Cooler Master Elite 341, Athlon II X3 425, Radeon 5750 (passive, fan zip-tied on), Crucial M4 64 GB.
Cooling: AC Alpine 64 Pro, rear exhaust Scythe Slipstream 800 rpm @ ~5 V


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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:26 pm 
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Yes, were is the review?

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 Post subject: Re: New first build, would love feedback and tips on compone
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:37 pm 
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The differences between Mugen 2 and 3 are trivial. I'm referring to the last Mugen we reviewed, v2. My comments about base flatness variations really can apply to any heasink.

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