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 Post subject: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
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Location: Lima, Perú
Hi all,
I'm planning for a home fileserver, need a case (rackmount if possible, this is going inside a closet) with at least 12 drive bays. I know there are many rackmount cases that fit the specs, but most of those use noisy 80mm fans.

Do you know of a case with these specs that's easy to silence?

TIA!


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Will you be running 12 drives in those bays? IMO, 12 drives cannot be silenced (not in SPCR terms). sound proof the closet and vent it with outside air, air conditioning or water cooling.

you could also use two large regular (spcr recommended) cases that have drive grommets mounting and 120mm or bigger fans (also spcr recommended) in them, and hook it all to one mobo.

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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Location: Lima, Perú
xan_user wrote:
Will you be running 12 drives in those bays? IMO, 12 drives cannot be silenced (not in SPCR terms). sound proof the closet and vent it with outside air, air conditioning or water cooling.

you could also use two large regular (spcr recommended) cases that have drive grommets mounting and 120mm or bigger fans (also spcr recommended) in them, and hook it all to one mobo.


Thanks for the input!
I know they can't be silenced (especially being hardmounted), but at least I'd like get a case with 120mm fans so I can replace them and avoid the jet noise usually associated with rackmount cases.

The idea of two cases would be good if I had more space there :(


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:02 pm 
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Location: Ottawa
I have a Norco RPC-4116 along with the 120 mm fan bracket. It's a 16 bay case, but it has room for 120 mm fans if you buy the fan bracket, which is not expensive. I have 3 X 120 mm Scythe Slipstreams running at ~1200 RPM along with 2 X Arctic Cooling F8-PRO PWM fans in the back. It is "quiet" but certainly not silent. I have some 7200 RPM drives plus a RAID controller and SAS expander which need a fair bit of cooling, but with 5400 RPM "green" drives and no controller one could probably get away with much lower fan RPMs. With the 120s at 800 RPM or less it I could see the RPC-4116 being quite quiet if the drives are good.

The fan bracket fits most if not all of Norco's 4U cases, so you can find one to fit your needs. The included 80 mm bracket and fans will not do, they are crazy loud.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:09 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
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Location: Lima, Perú
washu wrote:
I have a Norco RPC-4116 along with the 120 mm fan bracket. It's a 16 bay case, but it has room for 120 mm fans if you buy the fan bracket, which is not expensive. I have 3 X 120 mm Scythe Slipstreams running at ~1200 RPM along with 2 X Arctic Cooling F8-PRO PWM fans in the back. It is "quiet" but certainly not silent. I have some 7200 RPM drives plus a RAID controller and SAS expander which need a fair bit of cooling, but with 5400 RPM "green" drives and no controller one could probably get away with much lower fan RPMs. With the 120s at 800 RPM or less it I could see the RPC-4116 being quite quiet if the drives are good.

The fan bracket fits most if not all of Norco's 4U cases, so you can find one to fit your needs. The included 80 mm bracket and fans will not do, they are crazy loud.


great! i'll check that out, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:32 am
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Location: California
Second on the Norco case. 4216, 4220 or 4224 with the 120mm fan bracket. I'll agree with xan_user that you'll never achieve "silent". But you can certainly get to "living room quiet". When all 12 drives get going you're going to hear it - but you can make the cooling and the computer driving them near silent. I know - my 4224 spent almost a year in our family room without complaint from the wife (and if it wasn't quiet enough I definitely would have heard about it!).

Basically this: Norco 4224 case, near-silent PSU (Corsair 650HX in my case, but you can get more efficient quiet ones now), 3x Noctua 120 fans in the midplane, 2x 80mm Noctua's on the rear running on motherboard PWM control (nominally 800rpm, speeds up if it gets hot - which has only happened when I force-tested it by blocking all the airflow from the drive trays). Big-Shuriken with the fan real slow on the CPU (the computer compartment is just plain cavernous - don't need to do anything special there).

I also dremeled out the "grid" over the rear fan mounts and duct-tape sealed everyplace air could get in without passing through the vented drive trays - keeps the drives cooler because all intake air passes over the drives on its way in. Finally, seal up the extra holes/spaces between front and back compartments in the midplane fan tray. This eliminates any circulating flow between the front/rear compartments, increasing the efficiency of the midplane fans and allowing you to run them slower while still keeping the drives cool.

Basically nothing more than the normal SPCR treatment to the case...


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:40 am 
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Location: Lima, Perú
piglover wrote:
Basically this: Norco 4224 case, near-silent PSU (Corsair 650HX in my case, but you can get more efficient quiet ones now), 3x Noctua 120 fans in the midplane, 2x 80mm Noctua's on the rear running on motherboard PWM control (nominally 800rpm, speeds up if it gets hot - which has only happened when I force-tested it by blocking all the airflow from the drive trays). Big-Shuriken with the fan real slow on the CPU (the computer compartment is just plain cavernous - don't need to do anything special there).

I also dremeled out the "grid" over the rear fan mounts and duct-tape sealed everyplace air could get in without passing through the vented drive trays - keeps the drives cooler because all intake air passes over the drives on its way in. Finally, seal up the extra holes/spaces between front and back compartments in the midplane fan tray. This eliminates any circulating flow between the front/rear compartments, increasing the efficiency of the midplane fans and allowing you to run them slower while still keeping the drives cool.

Basically nothing more than the normal SPCR treatment to the case...


thanks for the detailed info! One question: have you tried it without the rear fans? I try to avoid 80mm units like the plague.

cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:22 am 
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Location: California
It would probably be OK without the rear fans, but running slow they are reasonably quiet and I wanted to make sure any heat gets evacuated efficiently. There is not room for 120s on the back.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:32 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:20 am
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Location: Ottawa
I can't hear the two rear fans over the 120s and the drives. I have mine connected with the CPU PWM header, so they ramp up and down with CPU temp. They idle around 1000 RPM and can go up to 2000 RPM, but I've never seen them go that fast even when running prime95.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:47 pm
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Location: USA
I too am using a Norco 4220 with a 3x120mm "fan wall". Right now it's in the basement next to my noisy furnace and washer/dryer, so silence hasn't been a huge concern so far, except to say that the default 80mm fan board it came with has no place inside a home. Even in a data center that thing would be obscene without ear protection.

One thing I've always wondered about, though, is the usefulness of running any 80mm fans in back at all. Even if you're running the 120's slow and silent, there's no way 2 80mm fans are going to be able to match them, in the push-pull sense, at least not quietly. It seems like they would, if anything, just impede the air exhaust, and you'd be better off removing them and just go with positive pressure. Unfortunately I'm running a server motherboard that doesn't seem to allow precise CPU and drive temperature monitoring (other than reporting "high" "medium" and "low"), so I haven't been able to get any conclusive data as to whether the rear fans are making any real difference. Has anyone experimented with removing the rear fans?


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
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Location: Lima, Perú
Not sure if i should put this here: what SATA controller are you guys using? I was considering Supermicro's AOC-SASLP-MV8​.
Since I'm planning to use FlexRAID, JBOD controller is right for me :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 2:47 pm
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Location: USA
Xyvotha wrote:
Not sure if i should put this here: what SATA controller are you guys using? I was considering Supermicro's AOC-SASLP-MV8​.
Since I'm planning to use FlexRAID, JBOD controller is right for me :)


That depends on what OS you're using. One advantage of the controller you listed, if I remember correctly, is that the Windows driver is capable of passing SMART monitoring data to the OS, so it's a nice controller for something like WHS. The non-Windows driver support, however, is said to be poor, so this is pretty much a Windows-only solution. I still have a couple of these boards that I used to use when I was on WHS. But now that I've moved my server over to OpenIndiana/ZFS running on top of an ESXi hypervisor, I had to switch to some higher-end cards based on LSI Logic chipsets.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:32 am
Posts: 132
Location: California
Xyvotha wrote:
Not sure if i should put this here: what SATA controller are you guys using? I was considering Supermicro's AOC-SASLP-MV8​.
Since I'm planning to use FlexRAID, JBOD controller is right for me :)


AOC-SASLP-MV8 is ok for modest performance applications. Do be aware that it is an older design and does not support drives over 2TB, so if you are using large drives - or think you might in the future - then you probably want something else.

A popular choice is to look for OEM versions of LSI SAS2008 based controllers on eBay. These are usually brand-new pulls from "packaged" servers where the end user didn't need the controller. A common model is the IBM M1015, which is essentially an LSI9240-8i with the "raid 5" function disabled. It is electronically close enough to the popular LSI9211-8i that it can be flashed with the 9211s firmware. And if you flash it with the "IT mode" firmware you end up with a passthrough SATA controller that is recognized by most popular OSs including all recent variants of Windows, Linux and Solaris.

You can usually find the M1015 on eBay for under $100, often for $85 or less. Of course, supplies come and go and your mileage on pricing may vary. I haven't look for a while.

This is the controller I am using (though I am running it with LSI9240 firmware). I have three of them running my 24 drives.

There are other similar controllers commonly available on eBay. You can find a lot of info about them at http://forums.servethehome.com.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
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Location: Lima, Perú
I didn't see the 2TB mentioned anywhere, great info, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:32 am
Posts: 132
Location: California
Xyvotha wrote:
I didn't see the 2TB mentioned anywhere, great info, thanks!

Of course not. When that board's specs were written 2TB drives were not even visible on the far horizon! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 2:17 pm
Posts: 21
Xigmatek's Elysium with suspended hdd in it ?
Maybe with 12 Seagate new 4TB HD (no SPCR review of this case and of those HDD).


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:15 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Montréal, Québec
So Xyvotha, what solution did you end up with? Are you still looking 8 months later?

With 12 HDDs, vibration, resonance and heat would be your biggest concerns.

I would have just got an Antec Twelve Hundred, used dampening maperials for both side panels & top and bottom case. I would have cutted the fans cable (because they're included with some kind of switch at the back) and use Nexus 120mm reference fans all the way. Top fan would wimply be unpluggued.

Using Green (5400rpm, IntelliPower) drives would be a MUST for less heat as possible, because those fans won't move the amount of air you would need otherwise. I would strongly advise you to check Hitachi 5400rpm drives, they heat less than my WD Green and are less noisy.

To mount the HDDs, I would use these silicone brackets http://www.frozencpu.com/products/3040/ ... 1182#blank . Since they require 5.25 bbays, you would have to remove the Twelve Hundred supplied HDD cages and use all 12 5.25 bays. So no internal optical drive option. (anyways, who needs this, I user external on rare occasion I need to use CD/DVD or USB keys now)

I would use integrated graphics to prevent more heat generation with a video card. I would suggest Ivy Bridge platform for less heat generation. (or Haswell if you can wait) I would also suggest the CPU tower cooler for heat dissipation ASAP. If you only use it as a file server, get a low power Core i-something processor, they're 35W TDP (for ivy bridge). Also use RAM with heatspreaders, and use only 2 sticks if it's enough for your needs. Don't go on socket LGA2011, chipset heats too much, kepp it simple on LGA1155 with a Z77, H77, Q77.

Anyways, you don't need a crazy motherboard, A Micro-ATX or even a mini-ITX would fit the Twelve Hundred and your needs. The smaller the board, the less chips, the less heat If you go the mini-ITX route, get at least 2 onboard Gigabit Ethernet port, so in case one toast, the second is backup.

All you need is a good x8 PCI-Express slot for your RAID/storage controller card. In this regards, I do not have any suggestion, as I have now on SSD and use AHCI on motherboard chipset. I never ran that much hard drives, my file server is an 2-bays NAS from D-Link that has been running since 2007. I've read good reviews about the LSi MegaRAID SAS9280-16i4e.

Nexus PCI-300 venting PCI-slot-bracket would be of great help, they prevent dust from coming in and they let the air circulate.

Finally the PSU, you would need a very poweful PSU with a 120mm fan. A modular PSU like the Seasonic X-850W. With the setup I've listed above, the system should use about ~300W at full load, so a 850W PSU would handle the job quite easily without event turning it fan speed up. All you need to look for, is the number of SATA power connector included with the PSU.


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:19 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Lima, Perú
hey Mari0-Br0s! thanks for the detailed feedback!
I had to halt this project since I can't import parts fro abroad anymore, and the local retailers don't give me many choices (ex.: not a single PCIe controller listed!) :( :( :(
So I've set up a guerrilla temp solution, moved my gaming rig to an Antec Solo II and used the old case (P-182) for this server, along with spare parts I already had.

System works as:
- Fileserver w/parity protection via disParity
- Video transcoding, mostly using Handbrake
- File encryption (AES)via Truecrypt

Case: Antec P-182
PSU: Corsair TX650 (1st Gen)
MB: GB F2A85XM-DH3 (has 8 SATA 6Gb ports)
Graphics: IGP
CPU: A10-5800K (Need the CPU power for RAR archiving and video compression, also it does fast AES encryption, i3s don't)
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LP 2x4GB
OS Drive: Crucial M4 64GB
Data: A mix of WD Green and Seagate LP, 5 HDDs total at this moment.
Case Fans: A mix of Scythe Slipstream (800 RPM) a Scythe Gentle Typhoon (1200RPM, running at 700RPM).

The HDDs are mounted with the P-182's included silicone grommets, Sata power is delivered via Silverstone's 4-in-1 extender

The system is not silent at all, I still need to tweak SpeedFan settings. I decided to try AMD's stock HS/fan before getting an aftermarket cooler, but it seems that's not the main noise source at this moment. Any advice to swap the TX650 PSU fan? (I still have 1 Slipstream/800).
I'm also planning to put this in a nearby closet, I'm running the wiring as soon as family gives me some free time ;)
Did I mention I still haven't got a good cooling solution for the gaming rig? heheheh

I will keep trying to find a reliable source for imported parts, for now this is all I have :)

cheers,

X


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 4:15 pm
Posts: 152
Location: Montréal, Québec
Wow, the import restriction is really bad. If I couldn't import computer parts from the US or the UK, I would be in big trouble, a lots of cilencing gear is only available in Europe or in the US. Even if SPCR is in Canada, here the quiet computing market is still very young. People here want to pay less, so obviously they'll disregard noise and even unnotice it until they get to my house and note that my computers are running, are 4 times faster than theirs, and are almost completely silent.

The P182 isn't a bad case at all, but you'll have no way to install 12 HDD in it. I used to have a black P180 *SPCR* Limited Edition. It was a great case, but cable management was a real pain and the internal case temperature was hot. I find my P150 (SOLO 1 in white) much more quiet than the P180 I had before.

I had totally forgotten about AMD. Back in 2005 all my computers were using Athlon64 X2's, I bought them on release day and they were about 800$ per CPU. They were great CPUs. But since Conroe came out at Intel, AMD hasn't just been able to compete for my needs. I see AMD as regular basic Desktop PC processor now. Each time a family member of a customer of mine needs a computer normal usage (no gaming and no requirment of CPU or GPU decoding), I always spec them an Athlon CPU. But when it comes to the gamer market or the power processing of the CPU, I always go with Intel. I just havn'y followed AMD roadmap since 2009. I had so much problem with the first Phenom that I moved away.

I used to have the Scythe fans you're using. The airflow they produce is noisier than the Nexus 120mm I own now. But they do move more air than the Nexus, no doubt about it. My Nexus 1000rpm moves less air than the Scythe you're using. The design of the palms makes it so. The noise is also due to the P182 design. If you try those Scuthe fans in the SOLO II, you'll see that they're less noisy. Air circulation in the SOLO II is better than the P182.

As for the Silverstone 4-in1 adapter you're using to power your HDDs, are all 5 drives on the same cable?

If so, this is not a good idea. You need to balance the load on your PSU +12V rails, so that none of them generate too much heat. Since you have a 650W PSU from Corsair (a rebranded Seasonic), the quality of the PSU is good. But those 650W PSU are designed to allow 2 or 3 SATA HDDs per rails. This is why the stock cables that somes with the PSU have max 2 or 3 SATA ports. (If they have 4 ports, but usually 4 ports are on higher power PSU's).

By putting 5 SATA HDDs on the same +12V, you're mostly going to overload it. If you don't overload it and the PSU handle it correctly, then this specific rail of the PSU would generator a lot of heat and would trigger the fan of the PSU to run at a faster speed. If on the other hand you balance your rails load, at the expense of more cabling to manage, all your rails would be at a lower temperature, and the fan of your PSU would run slower, making it less noisy.

I wouldn't recommend changing the fan of a PSU. If you can afford it, get an higher wattage (of same good quality as your TX-650) power supply instead. Higher power PSU are made to endure higher temperature, so if you don't put much load on them, they'll more than likely be super quiet.

If you would like to talk about the SOLO II , I invite you to take a look to the official SOLO II thread (linked below). Last post was by me, you can look at my old P150 modded pictures. Let me know your hardware in your gaming rig, and I'll help you silence it. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=62397&start=150


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Lima, Perú
wow thanks! I'm certainly gonna try to split the HDD power load in two rails!
This P182 has all fan grills cut out to reduce turbulence, also the front plastic doors have been modded.

I'm gonna check out that Solo II thread, cheers!


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 Post subject: Re: Rackmount case w/12+HDD bays, silenceable?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:04 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Lima, Perú
update: it seems this PSU has a single 12v+ rail:
http://www.corsair.com/tx650w.html


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