It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:09 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:54 pm
Posts: 18
I need to purchase or put together a system for running FEA simulations ASAP. This is in an academic environment so cost is an issue. The software I plan to run doesn’t scale well beyond 4 cores and the scaling really drops off after 2 cores per simulation though I could run multiple simulations. The performance of the software pretty much scales with CPU and memory speed/bandwidth.

One thought that I had was build something that would accept an NVidia Tesla GPU as the software is just starting to support it. I think though most of my models will be to small to really take advantage of it.

I have come up with four system configurations and would like some advice on which one to pick, two I would assemble myself and two are pre-built by dell, and advice on component selection.

I already have two Dell UltraSharp U2414M 24" Monitors (1920 x 1200) connected to another computer one using DVI and one using Display Port. I want to use these monitors in conjunction with the new system so the video card will need to have at least one DVI and one Display Port outputs.

Overview of Options:
Option #1 Build Myself, i7-3770K & Asus motherboard with Z77 Chipset
[$1584.88]
Advantages:
Overclockable for higher CPU speeds
Large capacity for internal hard drives
Newest Ivy-Bridge processor
Quieter

Disadvantages:
No Vt-d
No ECC memory
Nvidia Tesla Support?

Option #2 Build Myself, Xeon E3-1275 v2, Supermicro motherboard with C216 Chipset
[$1696.88]
Advantages:
Newest Ivy-Bridge processor
Large capacity for internal hard drives
Easy to upgrade components
Vt-d
ECC Memory
Quieter

Disadvantages:
Nvidia Tesla Support?


Option #3, Dell T1650, Xeon E3-1270 v2 3.5 GHz, C216 Chipset
[$1536.84]
Advantages:
Overclockable for higher CPU speeds
Large capacity for internal hard drives
Vt-d
ECC Memory

Disadvantages:
Lack of internal hard drive spaces
Nvidia Tesla Support?
Difficult to upgrade components
Louder

Option #4, Dell T3600, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Dell motherboard with C600 Chipset
[$1596.78]
Advantages:
Vt-d
ECC Memory
Nvidia Tesla support I think

Disadvantages:
Older Sandy Bridge CPU
Proprietary components especially the power supply
Limited capacity for internal hard drives (2?)
Expensive to upgrade memory capacity
Difficult to upgrade components
Need to reinstall Windows on SSD
Louder

Questions:

Does it make any sense to build the system so it could accept a Nvidia Tesla card in the future or just build for raw CPU speed today?

What is the relative speed difference between Ivy-Bridge and Sandy-Bridge processors?

What is the recommended CPU cooler these days?

For the option 1 and option 2 is there a cheaper Nvidia video card option with at least 1 Display Port and 1 DVI-D output?

Thoughts on which one I should pick?



Options Details:

Option #1: Build Myself, i7-3770K & Asus motherboard with Z77 Chipset

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor 1 $329.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116501
CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 1 $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0212%20Evo
Motherboard: ASUS P8Z77-V LE PLUS LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard 1 $154.9
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131848
Memory: CORSAIR Vengeance LP 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CML8GX3M1A1600C9 2 $49.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820233389
Videocard: ASUS GTX660-DC2-2GD5 GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card 1 $234.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814121664
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold ((SS-650KM Active PFC F3)) 1 $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151088
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey Silent ATX Mid Tower Case 1 $109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811352022
Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM 1 $19.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827135204
Storage: SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD128BW 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147192
Storage: Western Digital WD Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive 1 $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136792
Keyboard

Mouse

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (64-bit) OEM 1 $139.99
Warranty: None accept for components
=====
Total: $1,429.89
=====
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option #2: Build Myself, Xeon E3-1275 v2, Supermicro motherboard with C216 Chipset

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1275 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.5GHz (3.9GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 77W Quad-Core Server Processor BX80637E31275V2 1 $356.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819117282
CPU Cooler: COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO RR-212E-20PK-R2 1 $34.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 0212%20Evo
Motherboard: Supermicro X9SAE-O LGA1155/ Intel C216 Express PCH/ DDR3/ SATA3&USB3.0/ A&2GbE/ ATX Server Motherboard 1 $198.99
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-X9SAE
Memory: Hynix DDR3-1600 8GB ECC Hynix Chip CL11 Server Memory - HMT41GU7MFR8C-PB 2 $67.99
http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=D38GE1600H
Videocard: GIGABYTE GV-N660OC-2GD GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card 1 $229.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814125443
Power Supply: SeaSonic SS-520FL 520W ATX12V / EPS12V 80 PLUS PLATINUM Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply 1 $149.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6817151122
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Titanium Grey Silent ATX Mid Tower Case 1 $109.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6811352022
Optical Drive: ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM 1 $19.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6827135204
Storage: SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD128BW 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147192
Storage: Western Digital WD Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive-Bare Drive 1 $179.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6822136792
Keyboard: ?
Mouse: ?
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (64-bit) OEM 1 $139.99
Warranty: None accept for components
=====
Total: $1,696.88
=====
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Option #3 Dell T1650, Xeon E3-1270 v2 3.5 GHz

CPU:XEON E3-1270 v2 (3.5GHz, 8M, 0GT) 1 $1,396.85
CPU: Cooler Proprietary Included
Motherboard: [Included in Price]
Memory: 16GB, DDR3 UDIMM Memory, 1600MHz, ECC (2 x 8GB DIMMs) [Included in Price]
Videocard: 512MB NVIDIA Quadro NVS 310, DUAL MON, 2 DMS59 [Included in Price]
Power Supply: 320W Power Supply, 90 Percent Efficiency [Included in Price]
Case: [Included in Price]
Optical Drive: 16X DVD+/-RW, SATA [Included in Price]
Storage SAMSUNG: 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD128BW 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147192
Storage: 2TB, 7200 RPM 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive [Included in Price]
Keyboard: Dell USB Entry Business Keyboard, English [Included in Price]
Mouse: Dell MS111 USB Optical Mouse [Included in Price]
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional, No Media, 64-bit, English [Included in Price]
Warranty: 3 Year Basic Hardware Service with 3 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis [Included in Price]
=====
Total: $1,536.84
=====
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Option #4 Dell T3600, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Dell motherboard with C600 Chipset

CPU: Four Core XEON (E5-1620, 3.6GHz, 10M, Turbo) [Included in Price] 1 $1,336.80
CPU Cooler: Proprietary Included
Motherboard: [Included in Price]
Memory: Kingston 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ECC Registered Server Memory DR x8 Model KVR16R11D8K4/16 1 $119.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820239241
Videocard: 1.0GB NVIDIA® Quadro® 600, Dual MON, 1 DP & 1 DVI [Included in Price]
Power Supply: 635W Power Supply, 90 Percent Efficiency [Included in Price]
Case: [Included in Price]
Optical Drive: 16X DVD+/-RW, SATA [Included in Price]
Storage: SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD128BW 2.5" 128GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 $139.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147192
Storage: 2TB, 7200 RPM 3.5" SATA 6Gb/s Hard Drive [Included in Price]
Keyboard: Dell USB Entry Business Keyboard, English [Included in Price]
Mouse: Dell MS111 USB Optical Mouse [Included in Price]
Operating System: Windows 7 Professional,SP1,w XP Mode,No Media, 64-bit, English [Included in Price]
Warranty: 3 Year Basic Hardware Service with 3 Year NBD Limited Onsite Service After Remote Diagnosis [Included in Price]
Extras: PERC H310 for Dell Precision, SATA/SAS 6Gb/s, RAID 0/1/5/10 (4 ports) [Included in Price]
=====
Total: $1,596.78
=====
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 9:44 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Welcome to SPCR. Regarding your options: if the s/w doesn't scale well beyond 4 cores, does it benefit from the i7/Xeon's hyperthreading? If not, you could dial back to an i5... The downside to Dell builds...it might have a limited BIOS and you might not be able to overclock...that's worth a search. How important is ECC? Seems like that would be the top level fork in your decision tree.

cycleback wrote:
Does it make any sense to build the system so it could accept a Nvidia Tesla card in the future or just build for raw CPU speed today?
If it has a PCI-e slot, it'll accept a graphics card. Seems like most programs are moving away from closed systems like CUDA and moving toward OpenCL and OpenGL. Probably need to search for GPU acceleration benchmarks for your s/w. It might be that you can get more bang per buck by dialing down the CPU and getting a GPU. <shrugs>

cycleback wrote:
What is the relative speed difference between Ivy-Bridge and Sandy-Bridge processors?
10-15%

cycleback wrote:
What is the recommended CPU cooler these days?
Do you plan to overvolt as well as overclock?

cycleback wrote:
For the option 1 and option 2 is there a cheaper Nvidia video card option with at least 1 Display Port and 1 DVI-D output?
Before recommending a specific card...look for some benchmarks..

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 10:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:54 pm
Posts: 18
CA_Steve wrote:
Welcome to SPCR. Regarding your options: if the s/w doesn't scale well beyond 4 cores, does it benefit from the i7/Xeon's hyperthreading? If not, you could dial back to an i5... The downside to Dell builds...it might have a limited BIOS and you might not be able to overclock...that's worth a search. How important is ECC? Seems like that would be the top level fork in your decision tree.


I am not sure how important ECC is. In the past I haven't worried about it and not run into any problems that I know of.

cycleback wrote:
Does it make any sense to build the system so it could accept a Nvidia Tesla card in the future or just build for raw CPU speed today?
CA_Steve wrote:
If it has a PCI-e slot, it'll accept a graphics card. Seems like most programs are moving away from closed systems like CUDA and moving toward OpenCL and OpenGL. Probably need to search for GPU acceleration benchmarks for your s/w. It might be that you can get more bang per buck by dialing down the CPU and getting a GPU. <shrugs>


The CGU acceleration feature is in beta right now so there are only some really prelimary benchmarks available. The Telsa GPU costs close to $2000 though so it is not an easy buy.

cycleback wrote:
What is the relative speed difference between Ivy-Bridge and Sandy-Bridge processors?
10-15%

Does this apply to the Sandy Bridge-EP processors?

cycleback wrote:
What is the recommended CPU cooler these days?
Do you plan to overvolt as well as overclock?

I don't plan to overvolt. The only option where I might overclock is the i3770k.

cycleback wrote:
For the option 1 and option 2 is there a cheaper Nvidia video card option with at least 1 Display Port and 1 DVI-D output?
Before recommending a specific card...look for some benchmarks..[/quote]

The graphics card performance doesn't really matter for this application. Something Nvidia based with 1 Display Port and 1 DVI-D output is all I really care about. I couldn't find anything lower end that had this combination. I would prefer something that is fanless if that is an option.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
Posts: 4516
Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Here's the 4/8 core 3.6GHz i7-3820 SNB-E vs the 3.5GHz i7-3770K IVB.

gpu: why not just use the integrated gpu in the CPU for now? Nearly every mobo ships with DP, HDMI, and DVI-D. eg: Asus P8Z77-V or the LE version you listed below.

RAM: if you don't need ECC and you only need 8GB (?) of RAM, I'd suggest Samsung.

HDD: Is all the data in-play going to be on the SSD?/ Do you need the speed of the WD Black? Maybe the much quieter WD Red would work.

PSU/CPU cooler: will wait for the CPU/gpu decision to settle down.

_________________
1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1805
Location: Northern New Jersey
I think Option 2 is your best bet. I would use a better heatsink than the Hyper 212, and the Fractal cases just don't do it for me, but it's very similar to a Xeon system I almost built.

The component warranties are a better bet than the generic 3 year warranty or obscene charge for support, especially if you take care of the machine. I do agree with CA_Steve, and I would look at Samsung RAM, their 30nm Low Profile is really nice, I'm not sure what you need the extra cost of ECC for. GTX660 is a fine card, I don't see anything wrong with it. I would also just get a normal 1TB Blue drive, not sure if the Black is really going to show you any difference in speed (a couple seconds here or there at best?).

Those two Dell systems do not really look appealing in any way, especially if you're just going to change some of the components to begin with.

I had a conversation today with someone about how VT-d is a bit of a moot point, with software being able to handle things now almost entirely. Not sure if having the VT-d support will make any difference whatsoever for you.

Also, as far as nVidia Tesla goes, it's just a PCI-e card, as long as your OS has support, you're good to go. Not sure how the support could be a questionable disadvantage the way it works. In anticipation for a Tesla setup, I may look to have a 620W power supply, only because the Tesla series is extremely power hungry, and to keep heat and noise down, you aren't going to want the PSU to consistently be beyond it's peak efficiency. 620W gives a fair amount of headroom, while still not being completely overkill for a tesla system.

_________________
|Dual Intel Xeon E5-2620-Xigmatek SD1283 DK-II|Asus Z9PA-D8-HR-05 IFX|WD 250gb Velociraptor SATA3|16gb DDR3-1600 ECC RDIMM|WD Blue 640GB SATA2 x2|Logitech K750|Logitech Wireless Mouse|nVidia GTX660ti 2GB|Antec HCG-750|NZXT Source 210 Elite|M-Audio ProFire 2626|Art TubeOpto8 with Smooth Plate Tube Swap|Avid Artist Mix x2|
FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: System Build for FEA Simulations
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:46 pm
Posts: 8
Location: San Clemente, CA, USA
CA_Steve wrote:
gpu: why not just use the integrated gpu in the CPU for now? Nearly every mobo ships with DP, HDMI, and DVI-D. eg: Asus P8Z77-V or the LE version you listed below.

HDD: Is all the data in-play going to be on the SSD?/ Do you need the speed of the WD Black? Maybe the much quieter WD Red would work.


I build machines that run both multibody dynamics codes and occasionally FEA. For codes that are single (or nearly so) threaded, the best performance is from, surprise!, IVB processors. For codes that can spread themselves across lots of threads, we build multiprocessor Xeon boxes.

If the FEA code has a GUI component that requires a real GPU (most don't, but you might want to do CAD on the same box), then you should go with a Quadro and not a GTX. Quadros are validated for engineering software and will render your drawings properly whereas a GTX might have z-sort problems or what have you. In engineering it's more about correctness than speed. I would do as Steve mentions above, though, no discrete card, use the HD on an IVB and save my money for a Quadro 2000/4000 to use when I get some CUDA support in the simulation code.

I also concur with Steve regarding HDD. We try to put all the code and data for a project on the SSD, get a big quiet HDD and only use it rarely.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: YaCy [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group