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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:19 am 
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I'd like to thank Walter and Ray from Seasonic for their great service and helping me get a replacement G-360 at a very good price for my troubles.

Unfortunately this one suffers from whine problems as well and perhaps even more problematic. The actual volume of the whine is probably lower as it's not really noticeable over the fan but when I first tested, with the PSU connected to the motherboard, the whine persisted indefinitely after shutting down the motherboard and even after switching off the PSU's power switch and only faded out whilst changing pitch when switching off the wall socket.

I've just tested with the PSU not connected to anything and again the whine is not noticeable over the fan. Once turned off with the PSU's power switch, the fan takes about 4-5 seconds to stop, at which point the whine can be heard and then persists for about 12-14 seconds before changing pitch and disappearing.

I'll have to test again with the motherboard connected as obviously a whine that can only be stopped by switching off at the wall is unacceptable, whereas if it's only audible for a short period after putting the PC into standby or shutting down that might be OK. I guess I also have to consider whether it will be annoying to any pets, who might be able to hear it clearer than I can over the fan, the entire time the PSU is on. Mike's analysis seems to show the whine is not particularly high-pitched so perhaps might not be bothersome to pets but I'm not sure if my Shure SM58 is that great at capturing high frequencies, so my recording might not accurately represent the sound.

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2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I'm of no real help here but just happened to put together an ITX build with a G-360 and a FD Node 304 chassis. No whining in this build, but oddly enough while listening extra hard I noticed how a LED spotlight in the room was giving off a faint high pitched whine that I might have written off as background noise before. I moved the lamp back and forth between another holder and it It proved to only whine in one of the two, so there's probably a minute difference in the wiring of the two spotlight lamp holders. Another example of how precisely electronics whine can present itself.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:38 am 
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This is a bit scary. I have bought this PSU but not yet broken the packaging because if I do I can't return it here in Sweden. I originally aimed for a 460 FL for its fanless operation, but then realized when I again read the recommended PSU section about fanless units, that the difference in noise would probably be negligible for my current build (below). And due to the 460FL price point and the reports that the 460FL also whines, I figured I would go with a cheaper unit (but stay with Seasonic, of course).

As for the G-360, do we have any idea of the ratio of whining units to non-whining units? Basically, what are the odds?

(I am building a surf/wordprocessor computer inside a Silverstone Temjin TJ08-E case with PSU located at the top of the case, with opening top and back (is the fan an intake or exhaust?) Ivybridge i5 77W TDP processor, no videocard, one SSD and one 7200 RPM HDD.)

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:51 am 
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guermantes wrote:
As for the G-360, do we have any idea of the ratio of whining units to non-whining units? Basically, what are the odds?

It depends upon other components, that seems to be a big problem. This explains why some people have had multiple units that are blamed for whining and others have not had any whining. Disabling certain things in the BIOS that use the +5VSB line had been advised before by Seasonic for the Platinum 520 and might also be useful for the G360.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:07 am 
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edh wrote:
guermantes wrote:
As for the G-360, do we have any idea of the ratio of whining units to non-whining units? Basically, what are the odds?

It depends upon other components, that seems to be a big problem. This explains why some people have had multiple units that are blamed for whining and others have not had any whining. Disabling certain things in the BIOS that use the +5VSB line had been advised before by Seasonic for the Platinum 520 and might also be useful for the G360.


In the BIOS, the function of Audio Always On must be DISABLED as this does not conform to ErP standards.
As well, in the BIOS, all energy savings modes such as ErP/EuP, StandBy Energy Savings, S4/S5, must all be ENABLED.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:39 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
In the BIOS, the function of Audio Always On must be DISABLED as this does not conform to ErP standards.
As well, in the BIOS, all energy savings modes such as ErP/EuP, StandBy Energy Savings, S4/S5, must all be ENABLED.

Thank you again for stating this, I remember it from the note added to the Platinum 520 review. There does seem to be some confusion about what these motherboard functions and what they actually do with some users reluctant to change such things as they believe it somehow is detrimental. From my understanding it effects the use of the +5VSB line. Can you confirm this is correct? I always disable any use of +5VSB as I have no need of any of it's functions and it saves ~1W from the power off state.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:03 am 
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edh wrote:
Seasonic Rep wrote:
In the BIOS, the function of Audio Always On must be DISABLED as this does not conform to ErP standards.
As well, in the BIOS, all energy savings modes such as ErP/EuP, StandBy Energy Savings, S4/S5, must all be ENABLED.

Thank you again for stating this, I remember it from the note added to the Platinum 520 review. There does seem to be some confusion about what these motherboard functions and what they actually do with some users reluctant to change such things as they believe it somehow is detrimental. From my understanding it effects the use of the +5VSB line. Can you confirm this is correct? I always disable any use of +5VSB as I have no need of any of it's functions and it saves ~1W from the power off state.



Yes, you are correct that the +5VSB is affected.
The ErP2013 is an European Directive that tries to reduce standby energy usage.
The power supplies are ErP ready but will require the MB to be as well.
Functions such as Audio Always On will cause the system to be in non-compliance.
As well, all MB's Energy Savings Modes should be ENABLED to match the PSU functions.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:33 am 
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edh wrote:
guermantes wrote:
As for the G-360, do we have any idea of the ratio of whining units to non-whining units? Basically, what are the odds?

It depends upon other components, that seems to be a big problem. This explains why some people have had multiple units that are blamed for whining and others have not had any whining. Disabling certain things in the BIOS that use the +5VSB line had been advised before by Seasonic for the Platinum 520 and might also be useful for the G360.


That's not my experience as the whining happens even without the PSU connected to anything. It might not be noticeable when the fans are running but as on this second unit it continues after powering off the PSU (when not connected to anything) and only stopped after switching off at the wall, that's likely to be a problem as it means the whining will be present when the PC is in standby, possibly driving my brother's cat mad!

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2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:27 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
Yes, you are correct that the +5VSB is affected.
The ErP2013 is an European Directive that tries to reduce standby energy usage.
The power supplies are ErP ready but will require the MB to be as well.
Functions such as Audio Always On will cause the system to be in non-compliance.
As well, all MB's Energy Savings Modes should be ENABLED to match the PSU functions.

Thank you for the clarification. I must ask if this is stated in the manual? The way I look at it, to achieve certain regulation that the PSU must meet, other components must be configured in a certain way, therefore it should be Seasonic's obligation to state this in the manual.

doveman wrote:
That's not my experience as the whining happens even without the PSU connected to anything. It might not be noticeable when the fans are running but as on this second unit it continues after powering off the PSU (when not connected to anything) and only stopped after switching off at the wall, that's likely to be a problem as it means the whining will be present when the PC is in standby, possibly driving my brother's cat mad!

That might be while nothing is connected but if the motherboard is connected and correctly configured as per Seasonic's recommendations, does anything change? I'm not too surpirsed that a PSU with no load would make some noise, if you jumpstart most PSUs with a paper clip and no load there is quite a squeal and it doesn't go away when you switch off often.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:50 am 
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Sorry, we did not include this in the manual as there are so many variants to BIOS and how each MB manufacturers name their standby energy savings modes, etc. As well, some MBs don't have Audio Always On functionality.

I will present this to our HQ PM and will see what is the best solution in this situation.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:50 am 
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guermantes wrote:
I have bought this PSU but not yet broken the packaging because if I do I can't return it here in Sweden....


Hi,
Just to give a little feed back from my end of the discussion (since my previous post put some emphasis on negative experiences). I ended up installing the G-360 in my new build and it is all that I expected and hoped for. There is no whine and the fan noise is significantly lower than the PWM-monitored Noctua NH-L12. From underneath my desk I can hardly tell if the system is powered-on or not. I am very satisfied.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:24 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
Sorry, we did not include this in the manual as there are so many variants to BIOS and how each MB manufacturers name their standby energy savings modes, etc. As well, some MBs don't have Audio Always On functionality.

I will present this to our HQ PM and will see what is the best solution in this situation.

Thank you for looking into this. My advice really is that you do not need to be specific to individual motherboards or other components but that you need to cover the general points. You provide your product with clearence for ErP2013 but it is only in compliance with it if the other components are correctly configured. From my regulatory experience you really should state something along the lines of "Attention: This PSU complies with ErP2013. For proper system function you must configure your motherboard correctly for ErP2013. Please consult your motherboard manufacturer for further assistance."

The logic of this is: If a user does not follow these pointers then the system does not comply with regulation, hence you must state it in the manual. If a user does not follow the manual then that is their problem as any regulatory control is lost whenever a user is using a product in any way not according to the manual.

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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:29 am 
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edh wrote:
Seasonic Rep wrote:
Sorry, we did not include this in the manual as there are so many variants to BIOS and how each MB manufacturers name their standby energy savings modes, etc. As well, some MBs don't have Audio Always On functionality.

I will present this to our HQ PM and will see what is the best solution in this situation.

Thank you for looking into this. My advice really is that you do not need to be specific to individual motherboards or other components but that you need to cover the general points. You provide your product with clearence for ErP2013 but it is only in compliance with it if the other components are correctly configured. From my regulatory experience you really should state something along the lines of "Attention: This PSU complies with ErP2013. For proper system function you must configure your motherboard correctly for ErP2013. Please consult your motherboard manufacturer for further assistance."

The logic of this is: If a user does not follow these pointers then the system does not comply with regulation, hence you must state it in the manual. If a user does not follow the manual then that is their problem as any regulatory control is lost whenever a user is using a product in any way not according to the manual.


Excellent point edh! I will forward this thread to our product management for consideration. If you have any further comments, positive or negative, please do let me know. Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:23 am 
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Whilst the replacement G-360 I bought doesn't seem to have a whine problem, in the last few days the fan has developed an annoying ticking noise. It seems to have stopped again now but it's a bit worrying as it could come back once I've given the system to my brother and he wouldn't be able to send it back to get replaced (I could probably talk him through disconnecting all the leads and removing it but then he wouldn't have a working PC for months, unless I bought him another PSU and then he wouldn't need the G-360 as well).

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2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Hi Doveman,
Is the G-360 making the ticking on a constant base or has it stopped completely?
If you wish, we can take a look at it for you.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:57 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
Hi Doveman,
Is the G-360 making the ticking on a constant base or has it stopped completely?
If you wish, we can take a look at it for you.


Hi

It seems to have stopped at the moment thanks. I'll let you know if it starts again though.

I'm having a lot of other problems with this PC but they're probably all motherboard-related rather than being anything to do with the PSU.

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Main/HTPC: Custom case, MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955 (TRUE Rev. C/Nexus), HD6950 2GB (with AXPII), 8GB Corsair Dominator LP DDR3 1066Mhz, Samsung F4EG, Antec CP-850

2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:34 am 
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doveman wrote:
Seasonic Rep wrote:
Hi Doveman,
Is the G-360 making the ticking on a constant base or has it stopped completely?
If you wish, we can take a look at it for you.


Hi

It seems to have stopped at the moment thanks. I'll let you know if it starts again though.

I'm having a lot of other problems with this PC but they're probably all motherboard-related rather than being anything to do with the PSU.



Thank you, please do let us know if you run into any issues.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:40 am 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
Thank you, please do let us know if you run into any issues.


In fact it is still ticking at power-up and power-down, so it seems to happen when the fan is spinning slowly. I presume the fan changes speed according to load/temp, so it's possible it will slow down and I'll hear the ticking again at other times. I'll try removing the PSU from the PC case and give it a visual check but if it shouldn't be ticking at all then I might need to ask you to take a look, as even though the problem isn't major at the moment, if it's indicative of a dodgy fan I need to get it fixed before I send the system to my brother.

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Main/HTPC: Custom case, MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955 (TRUE Rev. C/Nexus), HD6950 2GB (with AXPII), 8GB Corsair Dominator LP DDR3 1066Mhz, Samsung F4EG, Antec CP-850

2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:18 pm 
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doveman wrote:
Seasonic Rep wrote:
Thank you, please do let us know if you run into any issues.


In fact it is still ticking at power-up and power-down, so it seems to happen when the fan is spinning slowly. I presume the fan changes speed according to load/temp, so it's possible it will slow down and I'll hear the ticking again at other times. I'll try removing the PSU from the PC case and give it a visual check but if it shouldn't be ticking at all then I might need to ask you to take a look, as even though the problem isn't major at the moment, if it's indicative of a dodgy fan I need to get it fixed before I send the system to my brother.


Powering up and powering down, there will be a click noise as this is the internal latch.
Please give it a visual check to make sure there are no wires touching the fan blades.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:27 am 
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Power supplies seem to be the bane of all PC builds (whether striving for silence or not!?)

I have recently had an Antec earthwatts 380W "turn off" a PC after running for a random number of days...

I bought a new motherboard (ASUS P8Z77-I Deluxe) and it refused to work with my Nexus NX-5000 R3...

I purchased an expensive Enermax Triathlor FC 550 W as replacement for the Nexus, and it made the loudest whines/gargling I would describe it more of a screech!

In the end I replaced both the Antec and Nexus/Enermax with 'own-brand' PSUs from my local computershop (novatech) and they're both bearable (not hugely quiet, but minimal electronic noise, rare clicking)

My favourite PSU of all time was my Silverstone Nightjar ST30NF... Never made any noise and was 100% reliable in all the builds I put it in. (obviously never used it to run a big graphics card..)

So there doesn't seem to be any brand I can turn to (even at a large price premium) to guarantee quality, reliability and silence(/quiet) from a PSU, it seems to be: pick a random one and hope it works well with your other components... :-(


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:27 pm 
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Seasonic Rep wrote:
doveman wrote:
Seasonic Rep wrote:
Hi Doveman,
Is the G-360 making the ticking on a constant base or has it stopped completely?
If you wish, we can take a look at it for you.


Well it's gotten worse I'm afraid. I was kinda hoping I was imagining it or it would turn out to be something else I could easily fix as I've been working non-stop on this PC trying to get it ready for my brother's birthday on 1 September but I couldn't keep ignoring it and it's definitely the PSU fan that's making this very annoying rhythmic ticking noise, so I'm going to need it looked at unfortunately :cry:

I've made a recording which I think you can hear it clearly enough in. You can download it (it's only about 1.2MB) here
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1fDI89 ... sp=sharing

this is the end of the recording when I turned the PSU off, where you can hear the ticking slow down as the fan stops
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1fDI89 ... sp=sharing

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2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:45 pm 
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doveman that is definitely not a normal sound for any PSU let alone a quality one. Hell the generic 400 watt PSU that comes with a dell doesn't even make those noises. You should RMA that to Seasonic. That noise is totally unacceptable. Seasonic is supposed to be a premium brand. My x660 will go right back if it sounds like that. A cheapo 50 dollar dell PSU should not be quieter than a seasonic.


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:01 am 
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laststop wrote:
doveman that is definitely not a normal sound for any PSU let alone a quality one. Hell the generic 400 watt PSU that comes with a dell doesn't even make those noises. You should RMA that to Seasonic. That noise is totally unacceptable. Seasonic is supposed to be a premium brand. My x660 will go right back if it sounds like that. A cheapo 50 dollar dell PSU should not be quieter than a seasonic.


Thanks laststop. I've actually been in touch with Ray from Seasonic and he's come through like a champ and is getting me a replacement sent from Germany in the next few days, with the old unit being collected at the same time. Couldn't ask for better customer service :)

The noise is strange as for the last few days, it's actually stopped doing it whilst the PSU is running and I only hear the ticking briefly as the fan spins up/down when powering up/shutting down the PC but I think it's come and gone before, which is why I haven't got round to replacing the PSU before now (I wasn't certain it was the PSU until recently either, as I had to eliminate the other fans in the PC). I can only guess the fan's bearings are dodgy but I'm glad I don't have to RMA it and wait for someone to test it and confirm the fault, as that's always tricky with faults that come and go (and never seem to come when they're being tested by the supplier, although I'm sure Seasonic would have heard the ticking at powerup/down and agreed it shouldn't be doing that anyway!).

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2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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 Post subject: Re: New Seasonic G360 bad whining
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:15 pm 
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I've received the replacement G-360 now and am happy to report silent service has been restored :)

_________________
Main/HTPC: Custom case, MSI 990FXA-GD80, Phenom II X4 955 (TRUE Rev. C/Nexus), HD6950 2GB (with AXPII), 8GB Corsair Dominator LP DDR3 1066Mhz, Samsung F4EG, Antec CP-850

2nd PC: Bach VX, GA-MA780G-UD3H, PhII 720BE @ 3.2Ghz (SI-128SE/Yate Loon fan), 8GB Kingston Hyper-X DDR2 1066MHz, Yate Loon 140mm intake, Nexus 120mm exhaust, HD103UJ, WD6400AAKS, Nexus Value 430W


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