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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:43 am 
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whispercat wrote:
Tephras wrote:
It's a BGA chip.


Does that affect it's availability?

I think it'll affect your ability to use it...unless a mobo mfgr brings out a board to support it.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:50 am 
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whispercat wrote:
Tephras wrote:
It's a BGA chip.


Does that affect it's availability?

It means you'll need to be nifty with a soldering iron.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_grid_array


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:27 am 
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We didn't observe any heat issues with our sample chip. On our CPU test rig running Prime95, the temperature stabilized at 67C (according to CoreTemp), ambient was 21C, Scythe Kabuto @ 800rpm. Power draw from wall: 149W AC.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Lawrence Lee wrote:
We didn't observe any heat issues with our sample chip. On our CPU test rig running Prime95, the temperature stabilized at 67C (according to CoreTemp), ambient was 21C, Scythe Kabuto @ 800rpm. Power draw from wall: 149W AC.


Well, that's a helpful data point, and definitely good to know. Just out of curiosity, what kind of case were you using, and was the side of the case open or closed?
I wonder, too, if the Haswell Xeons might be a bit more efficient than their desktop counterparts. Doesn't Intel often do 'binning' where the best silicon goes into the more expensive products, and the cheaper ones get what's left over?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:50 pm 
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JDG1980 wrote:
There are no Haswell Xeons with a TDP lower than 80W.

Sorry didn't see you wanted a server CPU, all Xeons with the L Suffixes are low power versions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitecture%29#Server_processors

The model you mentioned before "E3-1230 v2 and v3" has a low power version coming in at 25 W but sadly its also lower clock speed as well :(
Is a Xeon needed ? as it seems you are limiting your choices a little, especially when some desktop Haswell's have been designed with a low TDP in mind.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Lawrence Lee wrote:
We didn't observe any heat issues with our sample chip. On our CPU test rig running Prime95, the temperature stabilized at 67C (according to CoreTemp), ambient was 21C, Scythe Kabuto @ 800rpm. Power draw from wall: 149W AC.

Thanks for the data point. 67C ain't bad.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:42 pm 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Lawrence Lee wrote:
We didn't observe any heat issues with our sample chip. On our CPU test rig running Prime95, the temperature stabilized at 67C (according to CoreTemp), ambient was 21C, Scythe Kabuto @ 800rpm. Power draw from wall: 149W AC.

Thanks for the data point. 67C ain't bad.

Indeed, if that was overclocked. If stock then 22C higher than Ivy Bridge doesn't look pretty...

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1259-page4.html:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:51 pm 
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Location: Switzerland
1C higher, you mean!
People are too easily impressed by pictures and forget the small print.

Yes, there is a cooling problem.
No, it's not new.
And no, it's not that bad.
It isn't incompetence by the way. Intel has on balance no incentive to keep high-end desktop CPU temperatures down at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Lawrence Lee wrote:
We didn't observe any heat issues with our sample chip. On our CPU test rig running Prime95, the temperature stabilized at 67C (according to CoreTemp), ambient was 21C, Scythe Kabuto @ 800rpm. Power draw from wall: 149W AC.


Is this an engineering sample sent by Intel? Also in the first picture of the review processor version is "QEH6 ES", engineering sample, not an actual retail version we are buying. Add 20C and you get corresponding typical retail version temp.

Most retail processors have much thicker layer of TIM and more space between core and IHS. These can be delidded and thermal paste applied properly, resulting usually nearly 20C lower temps.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Text on the retail version is "intel core i7-4770k, sr147", not "intel confidential, qeh6 es". Selected review sample which is unfortunately completely useless for making reviews, but it is good as a desktop processor.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:29 pm 
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From page 2: "Of course you don't need a pricey motherboard to use a Haswell chip, with B85 chipset boards for sale near US$70. If you plan on using the integrated graphics features with a discrete video card you will need a Z87 model however"

What are the "features" in play here?

Also, I see some motherboards provide eSATA shared with one of the Intel SATA ports. Do these Intel chipsets support port multiplier?


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:31 pm 
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Gents,

Background:

I went for the new Intel Haswell i7 4770K CPU, an Asus Z87-A Motherboard and 16 Gigs (2X8) of Corsair Vengance DDR3 Ram. This all will fit with the Plextor 128 Gig Pro Extreme SSD, and a 1TB Seagate Barracuda for on box Data inside a Bitfienix Ghost Case. I'm re-using my Corsair TX-750 PSU, LG BluRay Burner & Samsung DVD Burner as well as a Sata Mobile Rack. (I'll probably put in a Gigabyte GTX 560 video card after I play with the Intel graphics for a while.)

At the moment I'm running the stock Intel Cooler (re-searching the right alternative) and although it was very noisy with full voltage, once I ran Asus Fan Xpert 2 it calmed right down.

I'm seriously thinking about trying overclocking, but I doubt I'd "Delid" my CPU. So I'm looking at more conventional methodology. I'm torn between a Noctua NH-D14 and a Cooler Master Seidon 240M Watercooling Kit.

What do you think would be the right cooler for the new Intel Haswell i7 4770K CPU?

I'd really like your opinion. Thanks for the assist.


Last edited by -Jim- on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:15 am 
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-Jim- wrote:
What do you think would be the right cooler for the new Intel Haswell i7 4770K CPU?

Pretty much any tower cooler will do, along with pretty much any slow quiet fan. I like the Megahalems because of its mounting hardware.

I wouldn't recommend water unless you plan to seriously overvolt the CPU.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:45 pm 
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Hi Gents,

I found out from Noctua that their NH-D14 would fit on the Asus Z87-A MB but not with the Corsair Vengance DDR3 Ram in place. It seems the Heat Spreader is just too high. (I wish the sales guy at NCIX would have cautioned me here on this.. :roll: )

So I went for the Cooler Master Seidon 240M Watercooling Kit as the sale price was ending, and I wanted to try some overclocking (O/C). Of course NCIX took the on line order fine (they showed a couple in stock locally), but a couple days later I get an email saying they are on back order. Grrrr. :evil: (I hate it when a company puts something on a "special sale" and then stiffs you after order with "it's on back order"....)

I did try a moderate O/C using the Asus AI Suite III. In one pass it got to 4.3 GHZ (2 cores were still at 4.2) with a single re-boot. Amazing! Especially on the stock Intel Fan. Of course I didn't run it through the gears (Prime 95 or some such stress), but it was good to see the system has some O/C capability.

So I guess I'll just have to wait on the Cooler Master Seidon 240M Watercooling Kit. It'll be a week tomorrow, and I'm getting itchy to try it. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:43 pm 
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Just don't come crying to SPCR when you realise how noisy it is at low load. That's what Anandtech suggest anyway: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6916/cool ... aroundup/7


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 11:44 pm 
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What I would really like to know is how well does it undervolt and if the DZ87KLT-75K allows for undervolting ( it seems to do via the cou voltage offset, but I couldn't get clear info about that ).

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:05 am 
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The little I have seen on Haswell undervolting says it's stable at 0.9V. I think stock is in the 1.08V range. So, lowering to 0.9V is ~30% power savings on the CPU. Here's Anandtech's look.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:31 am 
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I have had two retail i7-4770K processors. The first one ran about 4-5 Degrees C hotter than the second processor. After testing both chips, Haswell runs hotter than the i7-870 processor that it replaced.

With the stock Intel cooler the first chip was getting into 80 degree Celsius range.

I am currently using the following heatsink and mounting system.

Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme rev C.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/freezer-x ... 120e-revc/

Mounting system for heatsink: Venomus X BTK II (Thermalright recommended for 1155 motherboard & ultra 120)
http://www.thermalright.com/products.html

I am using a thermalright 1200rpm fan on the cooler (taken from a thermalright MUX120 cpu heatsink).

Temperatures with second processor. Idle 30-35 Celsius, Normal usage 50-55 Celsius max, Under heavy load 66 Celsius with peaks hitting 71 Celsius(82 Fahrenheit ambient temperature). Testing was done using Acronis True Image(with right options can put 100% load on all 4 cores) and during gaming sessions (farcry3 and tomb raider)

System uses a blower GPU video card which vents most of GPU heat outside of the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:21 am 
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It scares me when I see iTunes in a CPU benchmark, it should never feature in any CPU reviews ever again.
It's downright awful software that's sub optimal on windows machines.


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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:13 am 
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Mr Spocko wrote:
It scares me when I see iTunes in a CPU benchmark, it should never feature in any CPU reviews ever again.
It's downright awful software that's sub optimal on windows machines.


Yes, it's sucky on Windows...it also used by hundred millions of people. So, it's a useful benchmark.

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 Post subject: Re: Intel Core i7-4770K Haswell Processor
PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:18 am 
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Lucky Luciano wrote:
Just don't come crying to SPCR when you realise how noisy it is at low load. That's what Anandtech suggest anyway: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6916/cool ... aroundup/7


Yes I did read the review in it's entirety. Here's a quote from their Conclusions: It Always Depends on Your Needs...

"First, while the Swiftech H220 may be the best 240mm closed loop cooler available, it also commands a healthy premium over the competition. This leaves Corsair's H100i and the Cooler Master Seidon 240M competing against each other, and this one's really a no brainer in favor of Cooler Master. The Seidon 240M sometimes lists for cheaper than the H100i, and while you don't get the software functionality or extra fan headers of the H100i, the 240M is slightly more efficient overall, and its mounting system is head and shoulders above the H100i. If you're in the market for a 240mm cooler and the Swiftech is too rich for your blood, then you're going to want the Seidon 240M."

As for your comment about noise. I agree I was surprised to see they discounted the Seidon so severely due to their noise measurements. (Other reviewers were far less harsh with some quite the opposite.) I'm running Asus Fan Xpert 2 to control not only the Water Pump (which is almost silent all the time) but the Dual Fans (connected to the CPU & CPU Opt connectors on the Asus Z87-A motherboard). The software allows you to set starting speeds, and the rate of rise in speed (ramp) based on temperature changes.(Not to mention rename the locations - like Water Pump - so you know what they are at a glance. It now, after a recent upgrade, working great.)

I was prepared to swap out the Cooler Master Seidon's Fans (to Noctura?) if their noise was beyond my limit, but so far they aren't an issue. I'll check the Fan models - maybe Corsair upgraded them - I don't know and the Box is running at the moment. :lol: I just bought 4 Cooler Master R4-L2R-20 120mm Red LED Case Fans 2000RPM 69CFM 19DBA for another project - My son's Gamer Box (he loves Red!) needs a bit of overclocking before a new Video Card for Christmas...waiting on Black Friday... So I may try a couple of them. (By the way, I don't believe the Corsair 19 DBA @ 2000 RPM with 69 CFM spec., but we'll see how they perform.).

I did see Anandtech took their measurements at 1 foot away which I assumed was not masked by any enclosure. I also assumed they were using them in a "pull" configuration (other reports I read suggest efficiency is not impacted by push or pull configurations) which would have the Fans (and their noise) closer to the Mic and not masked by the Rad. My Rig was deliberately configured as a "push" to use the Fans, and Grill in the Bitfienix Ghost Case to less the impact. At basically idle (right now) with the Haswell i7-4770K running at 4.6 GHz, the CPU is at 41° C, and the Fans are pretty quiet at 1060 RPM.

Overclocking and running a silent PC are probably not 100% compatible. My desire was for quiet is for most of the time when I don't use all the horsepower this Rig can develop. I'm willing to put up with the noise when I push it to it's limit when Video processing. So far I'm very pleased with it. 8)


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