I'm pretty sure you DON'T need heat spreader RAM. Like CA_Steve mentioned: your bad experience with UNUSUALLY hot RAM has you needlessly concerned. Except for specific applications (FB-DIMM) heat spreaders are really as much bling vs. function, marketed to hard-core gamers & RAM overclockers. If you're neither, then one less thing to worry about.

Crucial is no-nonsense solid brand, claiming to be "the largest DRAM manufacturer in America" and they guarantee compatibility.

For the ASUS P8Z77-M:

Crucial (CT102464BA160B)
Direct: $62.99/FREE Shipping ($69.99 Newegg)
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs ... 12A5CA7304

16GB kit (8GB x2)
CT2KIT102464BA160B
http://www.crucial.com/store/mpartspecs ... 82A5CA7304

Russell

I'll throw this out there: If you have a hard and fast dollar limit due to available cash, figure out what are the best things to buy now and what can be delayed to later. Don't cheap out on the motherboard. Save $ buying only 2x4GB of RAM now (if it won't affect your current projects) and use the savings to buy the best mobo and CPU. You can always add RAM later if/when you see a crunch.

Russell: Thanks for the processor updates! It's no wonder I didn't notice the Crucial 16GB kit you recommended. It's out of stock on Newegg. Hmm... The Crucial kit's CAS latency is 11, while the Mushkins are 9.


There's Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) for $134 with the same specs as the Mushkin kit. At normal voltage, there's Crucial Ballistix Sport XT 16GB (2 x 8GB) for $130. That's the least expensive 16GB kit by Crucial in Newegg's desktop memory section.

CA_Steve: A cheap price doesn't necessarily mean a poor product. It could just mean that I'm not getting certain features, many of which I probably don't need. The reviews of the $80 mobo are generally favorable, and its specs look fine. Am I missing something?

Also, I'm sticking with 16GB RAM. As advised in the recording forums, I should opt for a system that supports my largest projects. My largest projects use an extraordinary amount of RAM due to lots of high-quality samples. I'm using more and more sample-heavy projects, as well.

Nope. Just recommend you take a look at their manuals b4 you buy to make sure the mobo/bios have the features you need. It'd be pretty annoying to find out after the fact that your mobo doesn't do what you want it to do. Sometimes a lower price means they just removed features, sometimes it means they opted to use lower priced components. <shrug>

Well that's something I would probably want to avoid. I did a side-by-side comparison of the ASUS P8Z77-M and the ASRock Z77 Pro3. I think the dealbreaker is that the latter only supports one 4-pin chassis fan (compared to three on the ASUS).

I'm also considering the Intel Core i5-3570K ($220) instead of the Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 ($235).

Assuming I don't change my mind, however, here's my current list:

ASUS P8Z77-M ($120)
Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 ($235)
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) Low Profile ($134)
ASUS HD7750-DCSL-1GD5 ($120; $110 after $10 mail-in rebate)

Total: $600 including $1 shipping (after rebate)

One additional consideration: CPU cooler. Even if my system is quiet enough with a stock cooler, wouldn't a better one add longevity to the CPU?

Unless you must buy from Newegg only, a 16GB Kit (8GB x2) direct from Crucial has LOWEST cost of $125.99 with FREE shipping. You really seem bent on getting heat spreader RAM. That's NOT really necessary...but if you want it. Lower voltage shouldn't matter either...maybe with (16) sticks in a server. Same with CAS Latency; for a consumer desktop computer, it's insignificant.

Some thoughts:
Why doesn't End PC Noise use $80 boards in their $1,699 and up DAWs...would be more profit. They do use ASUS boards EXCLUSIVELY...perhaps there's a reason. None of their RAM uses heat spreaders. Realize the $40 dollars SAVED getting Core i5 3450 vs. Xeon E3-1230 PAYS for additional cost of ASUS P8Z77-M board, opposed to a questionable, cheaper one.

Core i5-3450, 3.1GHz (3.5GHz Turbo):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116506

Also a 3.2GHz (3.6GHz Turbo) SAME $199.99 price, but fewer (69-92) reviews:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819115234

Core i5 3450S is only 2.8GHz (but 3.5GHz Turbo) with lowest 65W TDP, for $5 more:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6819116507

Beware of getting WAY too hung up on minutia. Gamers & performance freaks trying to impress <whomever> make a BIG DEAL over .00126 differences, but that didn't seem to be your concern. Save the obsessing for where it will count: fan selection, meticulous assembly & additional dampening (if necessary).

Besides maybe a processor and RAM swap (which will save you $40+ toward a CPU heatsink) I'd say you've got a done deal for your Intel build. If you REALLY want to spend MORE time, find out if AMD is a real option for your situation. Is it worth (another) $100?! Because you'll save at LEAST that much!

FWIW: I'm no expert, but everything I've mentioned is what I'd actually buy with MY OWN money & I'm VERY picky. I'll only recommend HIGHEST quality for the price point and never JUNK!

Have FUN!
Russell

[url][/url]

Just realized the Crucial Ballistix Sport is 10% OFF!
with Promo Code--so I guess that's the one to get now

Full-height, 1.5V
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (8GBx2):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148545

Low-profile, 1.35V
Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (8GBx2):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820148663

Both "Guaranteed-compatible with the ASUS P8Z77-M"
and only $1 apart, so it's your choice: $120.59-or-$121.59.

Savings is GOOD
Russell

I don't. They just have a very easy shopping interface, and I have a $100 gift card. Plus, fewer packages.


It was only $4 more. Still, a penny saved...

As far as CAS latency is concerned, I think you're right. It probably won't make a noticeable difference. The audio forums seem to prefer low latency RAM, but I wonder what their expertise actually is. At 1600MHz, we're talking differences of 0.625 milliseconds per CAS. I can notice an audible delay under 10-20 milliseconds, but not fractions of a millisecond.

I've settled on the ASUS P8Z77-M, so you can all relax.

Regarding CPUs, I appreciate you finding some options for me. I guess I've already justified $100 over my original budget, and that's exactly where I'm at. So I don't see myself regretting spending an extra $20 or so for better performance.

As for AMD, I've already invested a lot of time learning about Intel components. I'm just growing eager at this point. Can't wait to upgrade this noisy space heater to a quiet digital audio workstation.

Thank you for finding those promo codes!

With your new found RAM savings you could go back to the i5-3570K :O
I've now seen several mentions of that one specifically for audio work...

But it seems what may be popular is being 'unlocked' for overclocking.
Plus higher series of HD Graphics, likely irrelevant with discrete card.

Or just stick to the i5-3470, pocket the difference & you're DONE!
Wish I was building MY new computer...:p

Russell

Russell: I was editing while you were replying. I think I'm sticking with the Xeon.

I'm going to take a break, review my list on Sunday, and place my order(s) Sunday night. I'll be sure to post an update once everything's installed and tested.

Nods. The Xeon gives you a lot of potential...maybe more than you need right now...but might be something that you grow into if you start using a LOT of VSTs and recorded tracks.

If you did drop back to the i5-3570k, and if you are willing to postpone the gaming side of things, you could save $100. Just use the integrated graphics and get a gaming card later. Then again, if you turn all game details down to low and play at <<1080p, you could game with the HD4000 on the CPU.

stock cooler: it's possible that it'll be quiet enough for you....not likely, but possible. As for longevity, at stock speeds and voltages, in a case with decent airflow, it's not a factor. Start turning any of those knobs, and then the stock cooler will have issues keeping the CPU below the throttle temp....and when you are up in that range, then you might impact longevity.

Exactly. I'm thinking long-term. And this helped convinced me. That's a powerful CPU at a very reasonable price.

As for postponing or downgrading gaming, nah. I don't play very often, but when I do I get really into it. I get the feeling that with a new system I might want to revisit Skyrim...

Thanks for the info on CPU cooling. After installing and initial testing, I'll bring up some of my largest audio projects and loop them for a while (as I might during recording or composing) and see what the temperatures look like and, of course, listen for noise.

For Jason: PM alert...

Here's a Skyrim benchmark review from Nov '11. Look at the HD 5770 results (it's about equal to the HD 7750). Very playable at 1080p medium and high quality.

Thanks. I'd found one that showed the HD 5770 averaging 35fps with ultra settings and HD textures. I'm sold.

One final concern: static.

I learned to simply keep touching the PSU to discharge any static. That's the way I've always handled computers (that and keep off the carpet, of course). However, I'm considering antistatic gloves or a wristband this time. While researching ESD precautions, I've come across a whole lot of conflicting information. Some say that touching the PSU is a myth. Others say it works by maintaining zero potential, and the wristband is simply to keep you from having to repeatedly touch the PSU, in which case I don't need it.

What do you guys think?

If your parts come in an anti-static bag, touching the bag should equalize your potentials, then make sure you are always touching something that is ground, like the metal can on a USB jack.

That's my theory any way, just don't allow a big potential to form between your body/tools and the parts you are handling.

Most electronics have pretty good ESD protection these days so if it doesn't shock you, your electronics are probably going to survive. If you keep equalizing your potential to the part, no shock will occur.

And now for more on ESD protection, most electronics are speced to survive a worst case scenario that is called the machine/man model or something like that and during qualification testing they are zapped with a circuit designed to simulate that worst case scenario. Having dealt with this kind of stuff it is the machine stuff that kills electronics; sorting machines, pick and place are much more likely to kill electronics than walking across a carpet.

Thanks for the advice and information, QUIET!

I think it's time to place my order...

Belay that. The antistatic bag has a conductive material that allows anything inside it to be protected from electrical charges like a Faraday Shield. The outside...not so much. Depending on how the bag was made, there might not be any conductive material on the outside.

The cheap method: I usually work on my builds on my wood floor or my wood desk. (No carpeting or other static inducing material around). I sit down, touch a known good ground (in my case, there's a grounding strip on the outside of my AC surge protector) and go to work. Unless you are wearing wool and chafe a lot while sitting, you won't build up much static charge. Any time you stand up/walk around/sit down - touch the known good ground before restarting work.

These are two separate models. Man model emulates the impedance of a person, machine model emulates the impedance of stuff like pick and place machines.While PC components have to have ESD protection circuitry good enough to survive the latter, you can still mess up your stuff by not taking precautions.

What about wood coated in polyurethane? From what I've read, human hands are positively charged, wood is close to neutral, but polyurethane is negatively charged.

I wouldn't sweat it.

I err on the side of caution when it comes to anti-static protection, which after many years hasn't failed me yet! Why anyone would pay hundreds of dollars for sensitive electronic components, yet not even consider less than $25 to avoid potential disaster?! :O

AFAIK, clipping to, or touching metal in the case works ONLY if everything is grounded to earth. There is (was?) an adapter exactly for that purpose: simply a ground wire; no hot or neutral. Plug that into a PSU, then power cord between the adapter & grounded wall outlet.

Working on low static surfaces is a good idea. I stand on a thick sheet of glass placed onto carpet and don't move until I'm done handling components. Also wear a cordless anti-static wrist strap, plus touch metal in case (I've read metal touched should not be coated or painted, either?) Finally, I'll often work shirtless, although short-sleeves may suffice

Planning to use gloves on my next project, for avoiding fingerprints in addition to extra anti-static protection. I'd really like a work mat and jumpsuit even, but just don't build that much :p

Really prefer to acclimate my components also (for days) before first power-on, to avoid chance of condensation damage. Oh the glazed stares I've seen mentioning that one

Enjoy your build!
Russell

Wouldn't that increase static? I thought glass conducted a moderate degree of electricity since it's mostly silicon dioxide. Remember science class when the teacher rubbed a glass rod with silk to charge it?

Well, I do wear rubber bottom shoes also :p Jokes on me if it don't make a difference! Kitchen floor isn't an option, since NO space to work; it's a SMALL one.

Guess I could get some junk ceramic tile if glass not a good idea, or maybe use cinder block caps...I'm not tearing out the carpet (yet). Good thing I'm single!

Russell

I know all about small spaces. My apartment is under 300 square feet. And I'm not single, so that's shared space. At least I have a large wooden desk, or rather, a large piece of plywood resting on two big speakers. Amazingly, it's just the right height and everything is sturdy.

The package's estimated arrival is Monday. I wish it was sooner. I'm excited!

Good news: My shipment arrived two days earlier than expected.

Bad news: The dual channel RAM came with only one stick.

Newegg originally wanted me to ship it back, then after they received it, process for 1-2 business days, then ship a replacement that would take 3-7 business days. That's up to 9 business days after my return is shipped from the east coast to the west coast and received. That's potentially 16 business days, or 3 weeks! Unacceptable. I stressed that I've been a loyal customer since 2005 and found that to be an excessive wait. They agreed to ship as soon as I sent the RAM back and the shipment was verified with UPS. I think this is the first time I've had a problem with Newegg. Talk about bad luck.



It reads "16GB Kit (8GBx2)". How does this slip by? It has clear packaging.

Yikes! That's GOT to be disappointing!

Doesn't appear like any VLP modules I've seen, either. Those are usually no taller than second (top) latch slot and even that is half size. Short a stick AND wrong type(?!) Likely a [whatever] point to you now

So Newegg is shipping right after driver gets and scans your package? That'd be GREAT! Perhaps you'll get early as Friday after 4th of July...call and keep on them, if you haven't already

Bet you can HARDLY wait!
Russell

Okay, now I'm getting pissed off. Newegg's instructions were to email them once I dropped off the return with UPS. I did that. They sent an automated response saying they'd contact me within 24 hours. It's been 36 hours and no response. I intend to call them tomorrow and demand express shipment of my replacement that day as compensation for sending me the wrong item and for their poor customer service.

This is why i prefer amazon a lot more, 99% of the time that i do RMA, they send their product even before ship mine, and most of the time overnight, they do charge me if i dont mail back mine though.