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 Post subject: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
Hey there

Just discovered this forum and i wish i had heard about it sooner... I'm batshit crazy about noise ahah.

So far I've been building this desktop:

Box: Fractal design r4

PSU: Be quiet pure lower L8 300w

MB: ASus B85 plus

Ram: Crucial Ballistix Sport VLP DDR3 8 Go PC12800 CAS 9

CPU: I5 4570

CPU fan: Be quiet dark rock advanced

SSD: 840 120gb

HD: WD Green 500gb

My questions:

0) What kind of noise should i get from this build ?
1) Do i have to change the 2 stock fans from the Fractal for something better ?
2) Should i go with a fanless psu like the super flower instead of the bet quiet one ?
3) Is the way to go for the cpu is the i5 4570S edition with low voltage so less heat ?
4) Are low profil ram interesting for my needs ?

Maybe you have other suggestions :) I dont plan on gaming btw so no graphic card

Hope you can help!


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:32 am 
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Welcome to SPCR. Your system as shown should be pretty quiet. It's only going to generate ~130W of heat under a stressed load...and probably less than 100W under normal load. So, you don't need a lot of airflow. You can use the case's fan controller to set the fans to low rpm/low noise. If they are still too loud, you can always replace them later.

I wouldn't bother with the "S" CPU.

Your low power build is a good fit for a fanless PSU.

Low profile RAM: why not? It's more of a "it's one less thing to get in the way of my cooler".

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:54 am 
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Posts: 1196
Location: UK
I would suggest going for MicroATX rather than ATX. It's not like you're using the space for high powered components and it should save you a little money and a little power consumption from the motherboard. The Define Mini is there to cover this need but it may still be over the top still. You are not using such high power or large components so perhaps something like the Silverstone TJ08-E might be more suitable?

As you're only having a 500GB hard disk on top of the SSD, why not go all SSD? A 500GB SSD won't cost the earth anymore and if it fills up, buy another SSD down the line when they are bigger and cheaper. The HDD may well be your noisiest component so eliminating it is the only way to get much quieter.

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Silverstone SG03B: E8200, Asus P5E-VM HDMI, 2Gb RAM, Leadtek 9600GT+S1 rev. 2, Samsung 500Gb, Seasonic X-400, 2x Akasa 120mm, Scythe Zipang 2 fanless


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
thanks a lot both of you for your replies; this forum is the nuts!

I'm gonna go full SSD, i think it's a goodea idea

Case wise, microATX looks nice but what about the noise? Are they good ? I want the less noise possible, i dont care if i have to pay more. If i lived in the UK i would have bought the serenity desktops that looks so awesome at 10db, but im in france :(

About the fanless psu, i didnt find one that was around 300 or 400w, the flower power is like 500ish from what i remember, its quite expensive also but if it makes really a difference i'll go for it :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:07 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Location: Monterey Bay, CA
Go with uATX if space/footprint is a concern or you just like the looks. Go with ATX if space isn't a concern.

Fractal Define Mini, Silverstone TJ08-E are a couple of the mini-towers. If you really want to go small and silent, there are the passive cases. HDPLEX, Streacom.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: Guatemala
lafleche wrote:
0) What kind of noise should i get from this build ?
Seem you chosen good components, it should be quiet setup as long as you undervolt the fans and your mechanical hdd isnt that loud.

lafleche wrote:
1) Do i have to change the 2 stock fans from the Fractal for something better ?
Test them first, the R4 comes with a frontal fan controller 12/7/5V, the fans will run fine on all presets, so check if the fans cool enough for the noise you are expecting, my guess is without a gpu you can run them at 5v and still be fine.

lafleche wrote:
2) Should i go with a fanless psu like the super flower instead of the bet quiet one ?
There is no need to go over 300W without a dedicated GPU, with that said, aside from mechanical hdds, fans can be another big source of noise, depending on the rpms of the PSU can be very quiet.... but a fanless.... the only risk is coil whine.

lafleche wrote:
3) Is the way to go for the cpu is the i5 4570S edition with low voltage so less heat ?
I don't like S/T type of CPUs, they just seem underclock versions of the original cpus. Idle consumption is most cases is the same, its just they limit the top clock.... so in essence is like paying for something restricted. In you case without a dedicated GPU, i would just add a big tower cooler, specially since the R4 can fit 170mm coolers, something like Thermalright HR-02 Macho comes to mind as good option.

lafleche wrote:
4) Are low profil ram interesting for my needs ?
Depends, there are CPU cooler like the twin towers, Noctua NH-D14, Thermalright Silver Arrow SBE, that will have a fan right on top of the ram, so low profile memory will help have to option of running this frontal fans on this cpu coolers, but the HR02 is an asymmetrical cooler, grows flush from the CPU so it should not interfere with the memory banks, meaning you could use tall memory if you wish.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
thanks a lot guys for the advices


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
hi guys

I had some financial problem so I still didnt buy the build

I'm still daydreaming about it though and at the moment im looking at the silverstone tj08 e case, its half the weight of the define mini so its nice

i wonder 2 things though:

1) woudl the macho fit inside ? i see you were talking about the Thermalright HR-02 Macho, in my country we have the thermalright MACHO Rev.A, is it the same ? is it as good ? better ? i really want silence!
2) the stock fan of the silverstone aint very good from what i heard, what would you suggest i take as a remplacement ?

thanks again for your advices:)

Edit:

I've read about the silverstone tj08 and the main problem seem to be the 180mm fan, unfortunately there are no silent 180mm fan... is it possible to use a 140mm fan instead of the 180mm ? I've read about it here but im not sure how its possible...

Otherwise there is also the Silverstone PS07-B that has 2 120mm fans instead of 1 180mm fan, there are not spectacular either but I could switch them for something better like silent wings 2 or scythe ?

what do you guys think ?

What would be the best silent wise:

define mini with the 2 120mm originals fans switched for something more silent
a silverstone case with the originals fans switched for something more silent

?


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: Guatemala
If you fear the Fan on TJ08-E, then consider Silverstone PS07, virtually the same case with different front (plastic front door) and twin 120mm fans instead of 180mm fan.

I would just get the PS07 + HR02 Macho (it will fit, i just did a build and fits no problem), and get 4x Scythe Slipatreams SY1225SL12LM-P (cheap and good sounding and can drop to 300rpm), as an alternative if you can find the scythe NF-S12A PWM, connect them all to the CPU header via PWM Fan Splitter Cable, and control the fans either bios or FanXpert.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
thank you so much abula, i have just one question left

on the fractal define r4 there is a built in fan controller
on the fractal mini there is one in the accessories

is there one in the PS07 ? i didnt see it

how do you undervolt the fan ? in the ps07 SPCR review there are tests done at 7 10 12V, how do they do that ?

And cant we go to 5v like with the define ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: Guatemala
lafleche wrote:
is there one in the PS07 ? i didnt see it
No fan controller from what i remember when i built my friends pc.

lafleche wrote:
how do you undervolt the fan ? in the ps07 SPCR review there are tests done at 7 10 12V, how do they do that ?
Well you can do your own molex to 3pin adaptors for 5/7V , read SPCR.Get 12V, 7V or 5V for your Fans You can also use a zalaman Fanmate2 or a dedicated 5.25 fan controller. Or you can use your motherboard bios or software (fanxpert2/Aisuite in asus). My personal preference is BIOS if i could, to not load any extra software consuming resources, but here you do need to find out what will work better for you and chose the fans accordingly.

lafleche wrote:
And cant we go to 5v like with the define ?
The fans on define R4 should go to 5v, not sure on the Define Mini.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
Abula, thanks again!

I'm ready to order but unfortunately im discovering that the macho isnt available here and I couldnt find a review of all the cpu fans on silentpcreview (if you have one i'd appreciate it)

what other thing do you suggest ? I'm going for silence before everything.

I have every bequiet fans available, most of the noctuas, some thelmaright, phantecs, scyth

by the way i should go for a PWM fan right ?


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:23 am 
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Posts: 644
Location: Germany
Maybe you can elaborate where exactly "here" is or provide a link to shops, so we can evaluate what coolers are in the race.


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 6:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 1894
Location: Guatemala
lafleche wrote:
I'm ready to order but unfortunately im discovering that the macho isnt available here and I couldnt find a review of all the cpu fans on silentpcreview (if you have one i'd appreciate it)
Well since the macho isnt available, Noctua do make really good coolers, so does phantek and prolimatech. Do you access to scythe? like the Mugen 3 or 4?

lafleche wrote:
what other thing do you suggest ? I'm going for silence before everything.
Get quiet components, cases will help some, but the key for quiet setup is not to intoduce anything that makes much noise. Get an SSD for your OS/Programs and quiet mechanical hdd for your storage (or if you have the money and get by with 1tb there are bigger ssds today like Curcial M500 or Samsung 840EVO). Fans that have a very wide range of operation imo are key also, not all fans like to be undervolted or drop down to inaudible levels, asides from hdds fans are the biggest source of noise, so i would chose careful the fans.

lafleche wrote:
by the way i should go for a PWM fan right ?
This is a tricky question, being PWM doesn't make the fan better, just a different way of control. There are good 3pin fans so there are good 4pin pwm fans. Now in here it really depends on the motherboard and case. Asus FanXpert2 imo is a wonderful tool if you are seeking silence, it will test your fans and run them at the lowest or you can predefine your own ramping conditions based on temperatures, its very flexible and very neat, not perfect but imo for someone looking for quiet setup.

The problem with asus (at least on my personal experience) is that the only true PWM header is the CPU_FAN (and the OPT_FAN but this is a mirror of the CPU_FAN not controllable but it will be the same rpm), the rest of the headers CHASSIS_FAN 1, 2, 3 are only voltage controlled, so placing PWM fans on them will not contol them via PWM but via voltage, this isn't so bad, but in some cases it the fans wont drop as low as they can on PWM. Again depends on the case and how you plan to connect the fans, for example atm im planning going back to ATX for my gaming rig, with a Fractal design define R4 and will test also Arc MIDI2, both of them use 140mm case fans (i think you can use 120), the choices on 140 is limited, specially PWM. I have two things that i do want to test,

1) Pure bios fan control
Im chosing Noctua NF-14A PWM fans for being 140 and PWM, im going to connect all fans to the CPU_FAN header via Akasa Flexa FP5 PWM 5-Way Splitter - Smart Fan Cable (AK-CBFA03-45), this is safe as it draws power from the 4pin molex connector and only uses the motherboard rpm and pwm signal for controlling the pwm fans. This way all fans will run at the same rpms and all will ramp up depending on the temps on cpu, but in here is key chosing the same fan as some might not be able to drop as low others. Here im also undecided between ASUS or MSI motherboard, on my GENE IV i coudlnt control below 900rpm my Noiseblocker 120mm PLPS fans, but this is not a problem of asus but of noiseblocker, their design of pwm implementation of the fan is very unusual, the fans are controllable from 0% (660rpm) to 100% (1760rpms), this was tested on FANXPERT2 on GENE VI, so the bios on the GENE IV has a limitation of 20% for CPU fan header, at 20% the noiseblocker runs at 960 rpm, so while i though was the problem of the motherboard was a problem of the fan design, so i want to re test bios fan control, for this im chosing fan that have a good range of operation, noctua NF-a14 are rated 300-1500 on PWM fan control, so thats why chose those. The reason of choosing the Akasa splitter and all ran pwm, is that on most bios the restrictions of going lower are lower on CPU_FAN header (20%) and on the CHASIS_FAN (60%), so if i use anything but the CPU_FAN header i will not be able to drop them low, ill be restricted by the bios values.

2) FANXPERT2
As i said before, still think its by far the best software implementation fan control. My initial plan was just to adapt into how Asus design their motherboard (the PWM is CPU and the rest of the headers are voltage controlled), so for case fans i was choosing Antec True Quiet 140mm, this fans can be drop extremely low around 200rpm, according to SPCR review (click the link before) it has very good tonal quality, and its range is perfect 200 to 700rpms, i dont need anything above 700rpm as for me on any fan i have tested higher than 800rpm starts to get noticeable, so this is the plan if i fail on PWM control on pure bios. Personally i prefer not to have extra software consuming resources so my aim is not to use fanXpert2, but to what i seen doesn't take much resources either, i idle 1-3% of the cpu, but well worth it imo, it will quiet down your setup almost instantly as long as you chose the correct fans for each header. Asus FanXpert2 does have an advantage though, it overwrites the bios restriciton in all headers, my CPU_FAN has a restriction of 20% on bios, but with fanXpert2 i can drop it to 0% on Noiseblockers PLPS (as long as the fan can drop that low fanxpert2 can), on Chasis_fan headers bios has 60% restriction, again it took my Silverstone to 24%, this imo makes fanXpert very versatile.

So my suggestion for you is
1) Chose the case that you like that will fit all your hardware.
2) Chose an Asus motherboard that has FanXpert2, if you go with another brand research their bios fan control or their compatibility with speedfan.
3) Test the included fans and if you wish chose fans that will work well with how you plan on controlling the fans
4) Chose a good CPU cooler that will fit your case, preferable that has a good pwm fan on it, but you can always change it later.
5) If you go with mechanical hdd storge, be sure to research into a quiet one, WD greens seem to be the favorite here and now WD reds also getting good rep. But do get an ssd for your os n programs.

_________________
GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms| Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Ultra silent haswell build
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 8:51 pm
Posts: 11
thank you!!


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