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 Post subject: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop[SOLVED, still need help]
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Austria
Hello!

I hope this is the correct forum and you will forgive me making a forked thread for this hardware problem. The main thread is here and will be updated when this problem will be solved...

Guys, I am totally desperate with my new build. All components except for the GPU arrived, so I build the thing without any problems. But after powering it up for the first time the problems started and now it restarts every few seconds...

Here is my part list:
Case: SilverStone Temjin Evolution TJ08-E
Mainboard:ASUS Z87M-Plus (90MB0EF0-M0EAY0)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4670K, 4x 3.40GHz, boxed (BX80646I54670K)
CPU-cooler: Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev. A (BW)
RAM: Kingston HyperX Plug n Play DIMM Kit 8GB PC3-12800U CL9 (DDR3-1600) (KHX1600C9D3P1K2/8G)
HDD1: Samsung SSD 840 Pro Series 256GB, 2.5", SATA 6Gb/s, retail (MZ-7PD256BW)
HDD 2:Western Digital Red 3000GB, SATA 6Gb/s (WD30EFRX)
PSU:Enermax Platimax 600W ATX 2.3 (EPM600AWT)

Here is the error description:
First time after letting it sit for a while it will run for 30-60 seconds, then there is a snap (some relais?) in the power supply, reboot. The sytem reboots and the cycle repeats faster and faster until it resets nearly every 5-10 seconds. The first few times there was a post message "power surge detected", but that disappeared after a few boot loops?

Here is what I tried already (none of this influenced the problem at all):

* I tried all the steps below with the case assembled and also with the MB out of the case sitting on my desk
* Checked ATX + 12V CPU power - both are plugged in correctely
* Clearing CMOS
* Turning off surge protection after reading it is considered to be buggy, turning it back on
* Updating BIOS - which broke the BIOS since it crashed in the middle of it. After removing EVERYTHING except ATX power I was able to flash BIOS 510 using ASUS USB BIOS Flashback....
* Loading optimized defaults
* Using Mem OK button
* Removing both RAM sticks (wont even POST), trying each one separately in each slot, swapping them both around
* Adding and removing every possible combination of the SSD and HDD
* Using a wired USB keyboard, and a wireless Logitech K400

* Also tried calling ASUS support hotline - they are sympathetic but stumped and couldnt help...
* Banging my head on the table in desperation...

As you can guess, I am getting quite desperate... Is this a defective PSU? A defective mainboard? What is going on here? What am I doing wrong or overlooking? Please help me! Thanks!

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Greetings from Vienna!
Peter


Last edited by PeteM on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 2060
Location: Guatemala
Sry to hear on the status of your build.

I had looping restart issue with on X58/1366 build but ended as a problem on the power fase of the motherboard, was a gigabyte UD3H, and the first revision had those endless resets due to their design, there were bios to fix it, and while it helped, in my case never fully fixed it.

the TJ08-E has a removable motherboard plate, so take the motherboard out, and the psu, test it with the least as possible.
No frontal fan, no back fan, just use the CPU fan. Only keyboard and mouse and make them USB/PS2 no wireless.
If you boot to bios, load default/optimal, and try to see the memory trimming and voltage.
try with 1 memory in the yellow/black, (if you get the time try to do memtest86)
Try it with the SSD only and with HDD only (in my server a hdd had me guessing random reboots).
Crosscheck that the Macho backplate isnt touching the soldiering on the back of the motherboard or overlapping any components (sometimes there are wierd thing in the back of the motherboard).

The PSU / Mobo is what would bet at the end in case you going to RMA either, but would be great if you could find another PSU to test. Btw not all PSU are compatible with Haswell, it has a new low states that not all PSU can deliver... i dont think this is the issue, but crosscheck enermax website.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1930
Location: Northern California.
my first guess is poor contact/mounting of heatsink with CPU TIM.
reseat the CPU and heatsink yet? maybe post a picture of pattern of thermal grease between the two surfaces....
can you let it sit and boot into bios and watch what bios temp monitor shows before it starts looping?

(PS how many computers have you built?)

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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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Doubt that it's the CPU/cooler seating. If it overheated, it would throttle down....not reboot. Given the cycle, sounds like either the mobo or PSU. Strip down to a minimal system. Ideally:
- try another PSU in this system. clear CMOS before booting. If it works, then your Enermax has issues.
- try this psu in another system. If it works, then blame the mobo.

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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
Posts: 582
Location: de_DE
Do you have the internal speaker connected? Beep codes can be very helpful. The board also has some LED that indicate RAM problems and power status. What do they show?
PeteM wrote:
* Updating BIOS - which broke the BIOS since it crashed in the middle of it. After removing EVERYTHING except ATX power I was able to flash BIOS 510 using ASUS USB BIOS Flashback....

You're lucky the board still kinda works. Clear the RTC RAM (mainboard manual section 1.2.6) then try flashing to either 3.11 original bios or 5.10, and make shure to put the jumper back.

If that doesn't help you should remove the mainboard from the cases and put it on a non-concudting surface (the boards anti static bag on top of the carton does fine). Plug the power in and see if that works. Maybe something from the case (mainbaord standoffs all in the right places?) creates a short circuit by touching the back of the mainbaord.
Next step: remove the Macho cooler. The backplate of the cooler could creat a shodt circuit, too. Check with the boxed cooler. if it works insulate the backplate of he Macho with electrical tape tape, several layers preferably. When you remove the cooler you should remove the CPU and check for bent pins on the socket.

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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:43 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Austria
Hello! Thanks for your helpful replies!

I already tried most of what you suggested:

* Luckily I was able to flash the newest 510 BIOS by using only ATX power and an USB stick (disconnected everything else). After resetting the CMOS, it normally accesses the BIOS before crashing. Yay, I guess the stupid ones have all the luck! :roll:

* Took the MB out already yesterday and checked: There seems to be no wrong contacts with the case mounting backplate. Will check again.

* Disassembled all components and very carefully and diligently put them together again, piece by piece and checking the progress. No luck...

* There seems to be proper contact between the HR02 and the CPU heat spreader (seen by thermal paste impression on CPU & heatsink).

* The CPU temp is stable at around 32-36°C in the BIOS before crashing (similar to ambient temperature).

* The HR02 *slightly* touches the clip which presses the CPU into its socket. Shouldn't be a problem, should it?

* The Macho backplate does not touch and contacts on the back or front of the mainboard. There are also little plastic washers for insulation.

* The CPU socket has no bent pins.

* I tried loading optimized defaults.

* I tried with each stick in each memory bank. The DRAM timings seem to be properly set? But I will check again.

* Tried with ssd or hdd only, with both.

* Tried with wired USB keyboard as well as with wireless.

Also:

* I am trying to get hold of another PSU to check wether that would be the problem
* Enermax Platimax 600W *should* be compatible to Haswell as claimed by Enermax.
* If the Enermax should turn out faulty I an thinking about switching to a Kingwin Stryker 500....
* What drives me crazy is that the reboot cycle increases in speed as time passes. This made me think about overheating at first.
* Will try the stock cooler!

* Could it be that without a GPU the system is not drawing *enough* power thus causing this problem?

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Greetings from Vienna!
Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 7:54 am 
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boost wrote:
If that doesn't help you should remove the mainboard from the cases and put it on a non-concudting surface (the boards anti static bag on top of the carton does fine).


Before placing a live mobo on top of an anti-static bag....you might want to take out the ol' ohm meter. That shiny/metallic looking bag might/might not have a conductive coating on the outside as well as the inside. Most likely not, but not worth screwing with..

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:53 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 5:38 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Chicago, IL
CA_Steve wrote:
boost wrote:
If that doesn't help you should remove the mainboard from the cases and put it on a non-concudting surface (the boards anti static bag on top of the carton does fine).


Before placing a live mobo on top of an anti-static bag....you might want to take out the ol' ohm meter. That shiny/metallic looking bag might/might not have a conductive coating on the outside as well as the inside. Most likely not, but not worth screwing with..


Correct CA_Steve. Most "black/gray" anti-static bags are conductive (inside and out), and are technically static shielding. The best MB come with a "pink" foam on the bottom, inside a black bag. The pink foam (they do make "pink" bags, but are very uncommon these days) is non-conductive and "anti-static" (does not produce a static charge when moved against something), but cannot "drain" static. I set the pink foam on the top of the black bag, then the MB on top of it. I keep ALL pink foam, and most black bags, when they come with a item, and anytime I move or store an exposed electronic item, I put them in one first.

(But then I also have a 6'x3' anti-static pad for working on stuff!)


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:33 am 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Austria
Hello again!

Thank you for that interesting discourse about antistatic bags! I never thought i would say that, but i learned something interesting about bags and padding. :)

@xan_user: It must have been about 10 to 15 systems I built. So I am no hardcore system builder, but at least basically proficient. Never encountered SUCH a problem though..

Anyways, I tried the board with a different RAM stick (actually one, then a pair) and the result was identical... Since I do not have the possibility to try out another PSU, I agreed with the vendor to send it back and try with a replacement. If the MB was the culprit, then I will be mad....

Another possibility came to my mind after reading a thread in this forum: Could it be that without a GPU the system is not drawing enough power from the PSU and that leads to powerfluctuations which the mainboard recognizes and thus shuts it down?

Have a nice Sunday, everyone!

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Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 9:03 am 
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PeteM wrote:
Another possibility came to my mind after reading a thread in this forum: Could it be that without a GPU the system is not drawing enough power from the PSU and that leads to powerfluctuations which the mainboard recognizes and thus shuts it down?


Very unlikely - remember, Haswell compliant PSUs must be able to drive very low power levels for the new sleep states.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 8:41 pm 
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Disable anti surge protection in bios. Disable PLL overvolting in bios.

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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop (every few seconds)
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:05 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:55 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Austria
Finally some positive news: Thanks to the awesome employees of a local branch of abig PC store chain I was able to get a power supply for testing (BeQuiet dark power 10 550W as tested here).

And guess what: The system ran stable for multiple hours!

Now I am thinking about keeping the bequiet psu... Both the Enermax Platimax and the Bequiet dark power 10 have excellent reviews on SPCR. But my trust in Enermax has been very shaken....

I am asking you once more for your invaluable input! Thanks!

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Peter


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop[SOLVED, still need h
PostPosted: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:22 pm
Posts: 2060
Location: Guatemala
If you like the PSU and you dont have any issues i don't see problem, some of their psu are FSP based, not a uber record but decent. But personally i would try to find a Kingwin LZP 550, also reviewed by SPCR Kingwin Lazer Platinum 550W Power Supply, design and manufactured by SuperFlower, got good reviews from big end PSU sites like JonnyGuru, and TechpowerUp.

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GameMi >> MSI Z87-GD65 | Intel Core i7-4790K | Thermalright Silver Arrow IBE + 3x Noctua NF-A15 PWM @500rpms | Crucial Ballistix Sport 32GB DDR3 1600 | nVidia GTX780 + ARCTIC Accelero Xtreme IV | Samsung SA850 27'' 2560x1440 | Samsung 840pro 512GB | Hitachi 7K1000 1TB | Fractal Design Define R4 + 4x Noctua NF-A14 PWM @450rpm | SeaSonic SS-860XP2
Other builds ---> ServeMi | CamMi | MiniMi | HTPCMi


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop[SOLVED, still need h
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:46 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:36 am
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The Be Quiet! is a great PSU. My only nit is it's efficiency isn't as great as some others, especially at low loads.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, Crucial MX100 256GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)

Support SPCR through these links: NCIX, Amazon and Newegg


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 Post subject: Re: Asus Z87M-Plus stuck in reboot loop[SOLVED, still need h
PostPosted: Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:29 am
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Location: de_DE
uk.hardware.info has a very interesting review of PSUs under low loads.
BeQuiet Straight Power E9 and and Seasonic G and Platinum get the thumbs up.
Kingwin wasn't in the test but their design (higher wattage) is also very efficienet under low loads, so Igather from other reviews. It was the runner-up for my build, but too big so I went with Seasonic.

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Lian Li V600, Asus P77Z-M Pro, i5-3570K 4.4GHz with Scythe Orochi, 140mm Slipstream 500RPM and Mugen2 115X Bolt through kit, Evga GTX 970 Superclocked, BeQuiet E9 580W CM


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