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 Post subject: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:09 am
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Location: Sweden
Hello people.
I'm pretty much a complete newbie to quiet PC building and unfortunately I don't know all that much about computers all together. Not competely clueless, but far from knowledgeable. I've long been meaning to try to look into quieting down my computer but haven't quite gotten around to it in a serious way.

In any case, my power supply seems to be giving up on me; at least it's started to make quite alot of noise and so I'm thinking of replacing it. It's a Corsair TX650W, which if I've understood things, is actually pretty good and quiet. At least while new and functioning as it should.
Reading here on SPCR I gather that it offers quite alot more power than I really need, though. So when I'm looking into buying a new I figured I'd go for something like 300-400W, which I'm guessing should be enough for my rather old and far from high end system (it's right there in the signature, as you can see).
But now my confusion begins. Reading on the Recommendations article there seem to be hardly any in that range. At least not in the Editors Choice section. Why is that?
Scrolling down a little, one finds a couple in the Recommended section, but they are either so old that they aren't available as far as I can tell, or they are fanless. And there seem to be little advantage with going with a fanless one, and my inexperience makes me a bit apprehensive as to the extra need for approprioate airflow to keep the temperatures down.
So first of all, my assumption that I don't really need more than a 300W is reasonable, right? (Or should I aim for 400W?)
Are there any good PSU:s in that range that do have fans (and are available for purchase)?

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:11 am 
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Welcome to SPCR.

We have similar systems (other than your 4 HDDs to my SSD + 1 HDD) in terms of power draw. I can't pull more than 200W from the PSU while under Prime 95 and Furmark. Worst case gaming use has been ~180W. Add another 20-30W for your additional HDDs and call it 230W stress load. So, yeah, you could put a 300W PSU in there. The tricky part is there aren't any 300W PSUs that would meet the noise performance of your other components. Everything is 360W and up.

Cheapest: Seasonic G-360. ~$60. Pretty quiet. Would start to ramp fan rpm while gaming. Next higher is the G 550.

Pricier: There's the Kingwin LZP-550, Seasonic X series, including the fanless versions....with your separate PSU chamber.....might need to have slow intake fan to provide airflow....Corsair RM 450/550...

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:09 am
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Location: Sweden
Thanks alot for the respons! I have continued to read throughout the day and at least learned a little more on PSU:s. Though, I have to say, anytime I think I've managed to come to some sort of conclusion on a PSU I read something that seemingly completely contradicts it. Argh!

So you actually think that Seasonic G-360 is enough? And for me, the only downside is the noise-level? Do I understand you correctly when I interpret you as implying that it will be quiet under normal (non-gaming) use? Actually, I really don't do a whole lot besides surfing the internet (I mostly read; news articles, blog posts, and various other types of longer articles) and watch the occasional movie. But as far as noise level, so long as it's quiet when I surf, I think I'm pretty satisfied.

Also, when I buy a new PSU, I understand that there will be other parts that will make more noise (like the gfx-cooler, I could perhaps throw out a couple of harddrives too), but the idea is to switch these eventually too.

Btw, it doesn't mention it in the signature but I have a fan controller too.

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:48 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Cheapest: Seasonic G-360. ~$60. Pretty quiet. Would start to ramp fan rpm while gaming. Next higher is the G 550.

Next higher is actually G 450.


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 12:32 pm 
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yakuman wrote:
Next higher is actually G 450.

I forgot about that guy. That'd work, too. Here's the SPCR review of the G360. If you don't game, then it'll be pretty quiet...not the absolute quietest, but pretty quiet. At 13dBA, you'll probably hear the other components. It does ramp the fan pretty quick about 150W, if you do game.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:09 am
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Quote:
...not the absolute quietest, but pretty quiet
And the next step up cost wise if I would want one that's more quiet would be the Seasonic G-450? I saw the Cooler Master V450S being mentioned in another thread (it was actually about the 550 model though). Any other suggestions?

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:55 am 
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Location: Formosa
I've pleasant experience with Superflower 350W, 400W 80Plus Gold. It's very quiet at low/medium load.
Btw, Antec NEO ECO 450C is also a budget alternative. It's made by Seasonic.

Just my 2 cents. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:47 am 
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Antec Eco: I'm an efficiency snob and don't like to recommend 80+ Bronze units when you can go Gold for a few dollars more. :)

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:51 am 
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Thanks for the suggestions. I'm ambivalent and not quite sure what to do, but it's leaning towards either Seasonic G-450 or maybe Cooler Master V450S. It doesn't seem like I can get Superflower here and I've both good and bad things about Corsair RM series. Gah!

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:01 pm 
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I plan to get the Seasonsic G450 in my future build mainly due to the G360 not available at the place I want and not modular. I also thought about the V450S, but the TechPowerUp review on the bigger V550S and its discussion forum reveals less than desirable quality is discouraging.


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:23 am
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yakuman wrote:
I also thought about the V450S, but the TechPowerUp review on the bigger V550S and its discussion forum reveals less than desirable quality is discouraging.

The Techpowerup editors state on the point of soldering that "normal samples won't have similar problems—their quality will be up to the standards we usually see from Enhance products."


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:08 pm 
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By the way, there are some pictures of the V450S. I expect there are people here who can tell whether this shares Techpowerup's sample's flaws (I certainly can't!)


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:39 am 
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Location: Wales, UK
Crmaris actually tested the 450W version of the Cooler Master VS series @ TheLab.gr, which is more recent:

http://www.thelab.gr/showthread.php?t=127323


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 5:55 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Antec Eco: I'm an efficiency snob and don't like to recommend 80+ Bronze units when you can go Gold for a few dollars more. :)

Sometimes, I need to build computers for family, friends. It doesn't make much sense to purchase high efficiency PSU for their builds. I want a quiet yet economical PSU for average Joe.

That said, I'd probably choose Seasonic G-360 or Superflower 400W GoldGreen for myself. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:37 am 
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CA_Steve wrote:
Pricier: There's the Kingwin LZP-550, Seasonic X series, including the fanless versions....with your separate PSU chamber.....might need to have slow intake fan to provide airflow....Corsair RM 450/550...


If I allow myself to consider that price range. The Kingwin isn't available here, but various Seasonic PSU:s are. In terms of performance as well as - crucially - noise level, what's the difference between the Seasonic Platinum-460 Fanless, the Seasonic X-460 Fanless 460W and the least powerful X-series PSU with a fan (available here at least) the X-650? They are similarly priced here. Again, I won't be doing much gaming, rather I'm more of "casual user". I surf and watch movies, pretty much.

I have tried to read reviews of the PSU's but I have a hard time making sense of it all.

*edit* CA_Steve estimates that my computer might draw roughly 230W in full load, but could anyone make an estimate as to roughly how much it draws when I simply surf the web (= idle?)?
As for the noise level, looking at the noise-level charts on the G-360W review here on SPCR, it seems (with the caveat that it's not directly applicable to another computer) that it performs pretty well under a 100W draw, and perhaps up to 150W or something. After that there may be a relatively significant difference between the G-360 and, say, the X-400 Fanless.

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:58 am 
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Here's some data for my PC with an X-560 PSU and e8400 @ 3.3GHz.

(from the wall)
idle: 72W
Hulu: 100W
Netflix: 108W

For easy conversion, assume 90% efficiency. So, the system draws 65W idle and 97W watching Netflix.

The G-360 is a solid choice for low cost/decent performance.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:21 am 
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Thanks! I will have to try to figure out how to calculate that myself. By the way, what does "from the wall" mean?

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:46 pm 
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where you plug the PC in to get juice. :)

AC (where we can easily measure) -> PSU converts to DC with some loss -> motherboard and other PC components (actual DC load)

I use this.

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:48 am 
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Um... oh. I thought you rather made a calculation based on various information of the computer parts you have (I have seen online calculators mentioned that are supposed to do that). And that "from the wall" was some technical term, I was unfamiliar with. But to make an actual measurement, well, yeah, that's makes sense. *blushes*

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:52 am 
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You would be surprised to see how small you consume, in reality, compared to these online calculators.

After 12 months, I bought a powermeter to plug on the wall and see how much my PC is taking.
44W at idle, 64W at full load, 85W on peaks when starting.
The online calculators were recommending about 250-300W when I was looking, and I took finally a 400W PSU.
400W capacity, to finally draw less than 50. :?

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:34 am 
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That's wonderful. You seem to be using integrated graphics though, which, I guess, is why it uses so little power. I wish I could do that, but I think my computer is simply too old. I look forward to getting a completely new one eventually, but that's in the future.

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Case: Antec P183 || Motherboard: Asus P5Q Pro || PSU: Corsair 650TX || CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo 3GHz || CPU-cooler: Noctua NH-U12P || Gfx card: AMD Radeon HD 6450 (1024 MB) || Memory: 2x Corsair XMS2 Xtreme DDR2 PC6400/800MHz CL5 2GB || Case fans: 3x Nexus Real Silent 120 mm || Fan controller: Zalman ZM-MFC1-Plus ||


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:48 am 
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Sure you consume more with your card. Normal.

I was just pointing out, that these online calculators are giving a (very) good marge for error. After your remark below.
kakua wrote:
(I have seen online calculators mentioned that are supposed to do that).


Here, on the Thermaltake calculator:
It recommends me a 158W for my current build. (at recommended 90% load)

Ok, let say I am a very small user. Only 60% load.
Still, it calculates about 122W.

At full 100%, real life, I am currently drawing only 64W.

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:10 am 
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It's getting harder and harder to purchase 300~400W range quality PSUs. For example, I bought following 3x0W range for myself & family :

Seasonic S12 330W. Discontinued, follow-up also discontinued.
Enermax Eco80+ 350W. Discontinued, no follow-up model.
Superflower Gold Green 350W. Discontinued, no follow-up model.
Seasonic 300SFD 300W. Still available.

It's frustrating to see market trend towards higher wattage rated PSUs. It's a bit ridiculous that I've to purchase budget yet quiet 400/450W for web surfing, word processing dual core PCs.


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:09 am 
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I don't know all PSU, and I don't know how quiet is your SS-300SFD 300W from Seasonic.

I would think that there is not much market, at this price range, to have a lot of manufacturer.
Not much different of profit between the 300 and 400W models.

I also tend to the same conclusion as Steve:
CA_Steve wrote:
Antec Eco: I'm an efficiency snob and don't like to recommend 80+ Bronze units when you can go Gold for a few dollars more. :)


Maybe for few more $$, you can easily find some 300-350W PSU, a bit better. (and maybe quieter)

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:23 pm 
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thierry. wrote:
I also tend to the same conclusion as Steve:
CA_Steve wrote:
Antec Eco: I'm an efficiency snob and don't like to recommend 80+ Bronze units when you can go Gold for a few dollars more. :)

Maybe for few more $$, you can easily find some 300-350W PSU, a bit better. (and maybe quieter)

There are not that many 80+ Gold options in that power range (increased to 360) for ATX. Where I live, the comprehensive list of such PSUs for sale is rather underwhelming:

  • Seasonic G-360
  • Super Flower SF-350P14XE
  • Fortron FSP350-60EGN

Of this list only the Super Flower was introduced to the market in 2013. To be fair, Seasonic does have a few more PSUs in this range, but they are other (smaller) form factors.

I don't necessarily agree with the notion that you should buy Gold in this range. I would advise the Be Quiet L8 300W, which is only a Bronze, but is just as efficient as the Seasonic G-360 at anything below 100W; unless you have special needs, higher load efficiency is irrelevant. But the L8 300W is almost half the price of the G-360.


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:52 am 
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I took a Gold for my build. I'm convinced. :mrgreen:

But Loimlo was talking about 300W budget and quiet PSU.
I am not sure you get low budget PSU, when looking into the Gold class.

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:20 am 
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I like G-360. To be fair, it's pretty much the only 300W range Gold unit on the shelf. But I just find it ridiculous that I've to purchase Antec 450W unit for friends' budget yet quiet builds. It seems that people think bigger is better in PSU market regardless of their usage. Corsair CX430, which is an entry-level yet not that quiet by SPCR standard, is the perfect example for this market trend.


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:46 am 
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If you can find it there is the Huntkey Jumper 300W which is Gold rated. It's got a stupid name and reports on fan noise are mixed but a fan swap or undervolt would see to that.

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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:05 pm 
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It looks like the Seasonic G-360 is Haswell C6/C7 compatible. Are any of the others recommended here Haswell C6/C7 compatible as well?


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 Post subject: Re: A new PSU in the 300-400W range?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:20 am 
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pfong wrote:
It looks like the Seasonic G-360 is Haswell C6/C7 compatible. Are any of the others recommended here Haswell C6/C7 compatible as well?

A good generalization is any PSU we recommend will be Haswell rated.

fyi: The higher efficiency supplies (Gold, Platinum) will first convert from AC to 12V and then get the other needed voltages by converting from the 12V rail. This meets the big Haswell criteria for C6/C7 states.

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1080p Gaming build: i5-4670K, Mugen 4, MSI Z87-G45, MSI GTX 760 2GB Gaming, 8GB 1866 RAM, Samsung Evo 250GB, WD Red 2TB, Samsung DVD burner, Fractal Define R4, Antec True Quiet 140 (2 front + rear) case fans, Seasonic X-560. 35-40W idle, 45-55W video streaming, 170-200W WoW, 200-230W Rift, 318W stress test (Prime95 + Furmark)


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