It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:10 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 5
I have built a Caps zuma audio-pc based on Intel 4670T cpu + Asus H87M-E mainboard + Streacom FS5ws case + Streacom nano150 psu. For reference, it looks similar to this:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conte ... s-v3-zuma/

This combination worked fine for more then a month and suddenly stopped working (while playing music). On a different forum people are suggesting the VRM components overheated, thus the motherboard broke down.

Anybody any ideas on this?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:38 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Northern New Jersey
Have you done any troubleshooting?

Checked other hardware to make sure it's working, hard drive, PSU, etc?

_________________
|Dual Intel Xeon E5-2620-Xigmatek SD1283 DK-II|Asus Z9PA-D8-HR-05 IFX|WD 250gb Velociraptor SATA3|16gb DDR3-1600 ECC RDIMM|WD Blue 640GB SATA2 x2|Logitech K750|Logitech Wireless Mouse|nVidia GTX660ti 2GB|Antec HCG-750|NZXT Source 210 Elite|M-Audio ProFire 2626|Art TubeOpto8 with Smooth Plate Tube Swap|Avid Artist Mix x2|
FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 5
Yes, I have done all possible troubleshooting, afaik.

I did the following:

disconnect everything except cpu
connect the mainboard to a working Seasonic G-550 psu
connect a chassisfan

This results in a lit SB_PWR led on the mainboard (but apparently this always lights up when it detects at least 5V). When I press the power-on button the chassisfan works but no image from onboard graphics module on either VGA connector or DVI connector. When I add 1 stick of RAM the system starts up for 1 second and turns itself off and this behavior repeats itself. This behavior is detected from the chassisfan and from the power-led from the case (thus not onboard standby powerled
SB_PWR).

With this setup I would expect to see at least the bios-screen.

Please correct if I am wrong. Every suggestion is appreciated. I am now wondering if the experts in this forum think the VRM modules of a HTPC can be passively cooled (thus no air-flow).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 5
Ok, I learned the following: in order for the BIOS to startup you need at least 1 ram module inserted, without ram the system/BIOS cannot start up and thus will give no graphics output.

It turns out 1 of my 2 ram modules is faulty. With the faulty module inserted the system/BIOS cannot startup. The system/BIOS starts up fine with only the good module inserted.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Northern New Jersey
upp3rd0g wrote:
Ok, I learned the following: in order for the BIOS to startup you need at least 1 ram module inserted, without ram the system/BIOS cannot start up and thus will give no graphics output.


It's a good thing you learned that. It applies to every single computer for the past several years. Very few machines have integrated RAM (very, very few) so unless your machine does, RAM is a requirement to boot up normally.

Good thing you found your problem and it was cheap. RAM should have a lifetime warranty, time to go figure out how to get your RAM replaced!

_________________
|Dual Intel Xeon E5-2620-Xigmatek SD1283 DK-II|Asus Z9PA-D8-HR-05 IFX|WD 250gb Velociraptor SATA3|16gb DDR3-1600 ECC RDIMM|WD Blue 640GB SATA2 x2|Logitech K750|Logitech Wireless Mouse|nVidia GTX660ti 2GB|Antec HCG-750|NZXT Source 210 Elite|M-Audio ProFire 2626|Art TubeOpto8 with Smooth Plate Tube Swap|Avid Artist Mix x2|
FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:40 pm 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1883
Location: Northern California.
first thing to check when booting fails on a new build is ram. (also first thing to check when there are random issues after booting)

_________________
“America, its a continent, not a county!”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:10 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Posts: 1538
Location: Sweden
The PSU is usually next in line to be checked though. So the method is correct; minimal setup, replace stuff until the problem is found. Just remember to include RAM in the minimal setup. ;)

_________________
Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 5
Yes, lesson learned! :oops:

Now I have another question, related to this.

What is your experience with fully fanless systems? Can in your experience a good motherboard and good memory operate without defects for years without _any_ airflow?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:57 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 9:09 am
Posts: 1883
Location: Northern California.
unless you live in a cave, one good slow fan is inaudible for just about any users ambient noise floor.

_________________
“America, its a continent, not a county!”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:20 am 
Offline
*Lifetime Patron*

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Posts: 1538
Location: Sweden
upp3rd0g wrote:
What is your experience with fully fanless systems? Can in your experience a good motherboard and good memory operate without defects for years without _any_ airflow?

Yes, fanless is doable, as long as the system is reasonable modest. But don't use such a system for any 24/7 full load work.

Fanless has it's place. If the stuff is low power and small, perhaps it's easier without a fan. Most likely it's the other way around though, easier with a fan in there. Depends on the build and your goals.

_________________
Main: ASRock B85M-ITX | i3-4330 | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 730 240GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 13.9W
HTPC: ASRock H81M-ITX | Pentium G3420 | 4GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | HDPLEX H1-S | picoPSU | No moving parts | Idle 11.2W
Gaming: Intel DH77EB | i5-3570K | GTX 750 Ti | 16GB DDR3 | Intel 520 120GB | TJ08-E | G-360 360W
Server: Intel DH77DF | i3-2100T | 4TB+3x3TB | picoPSU | Idle 24W AC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:55 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Northern New Jersey
Vicotnik wrote:
upp3rd0g wrote:
What is your experience with fully fanless systems? Can in your experience a good motherboard and good memory operate without defects for years without _any_ airflow?

Yes, fanless is doable, as long as the system is reasonable modest. But don't use such a system for any 24/7 full load work.

Fanless has it's place. If the stuff is low power and small, perhaps it's easier without a fan. Most likely it's the other way around though, easier with a fan in there. Depends on the build and your goals.


This. There are some really good fanless systems available that are really good. That said, they're very expensive. In order for the machine to be effective in 24/7 usage, it really needs have incredibly lower power draw, really low TDP, and a really good thermal transfer. It also needs to be in a somewhat moderately cooled room in order to sustain average temps in a save range. This will be stated for each motherboard, what it's safe operating temps actually are.

If you were to build a fanless system, you'll see a noticeable temp reduction by having a strategically placed cooling fan on a particularly warm component. That would also likely improve performance and lifespan in the long run.

_________________
|Dual Intel Xeon E5-2620-Xigmatek SD1283 DK-II|Asus Z9PA-D8-HR-05 IFX|WD 250gb Velociraptor SATA3|16gb DDR3-1600 ECC RDIMM|WD Blue 640GB SATA2 x2|Logitech K750|Logitech Wireless Mouse|nVidia GTX660ti 2GB|Antec HCG-750|NZXT Source 210 Elite|M-Audio ProFire 2626|Art TubeOpto8 with Smooth Plate Tube Swap|Avid Artist Mix x2|
FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:09 am
Posts: 5
Thanx for all the input! I am aware of the good results of large, slow-moving fans, which are indeed almost inaudible. But I am striving for fully fanless, just as is described here:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/conte ... s-v3-zuma/

This is an audio-pc which looks like your typical stereo device and I want it to act like one. Thus no fans.

This is a lowpower system which at max capacity uses around 120Watts. But it is never running at full capacity so in practice (a lot?) less then 70Watts.

I am just wondering if the motherboard and ram modules will survive under these conditions (no airflow) for long periods of time (5+ years).

I was hoping to find experts on this forum as this is called: silentpcreview. :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Caps zuma with Asus H87M-E defect
PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 1830
Location: Northern New Jersey
I have seen other people with that same computer in use (or very close variants of it). The key is to simply be using very low wattage components. The 4670T is pretty low power at 45W, but that can be even lower with some i3 CPUs and the Pentiums. This means that under load, you'd be producing so little heat comparatively, that the fanless case would be able to more than dissipate the heat.

NUC machines are going this route. The TDP is so low that under load it still barely heats up. ARM CPUs are similar to this (considering most phones use this today, and they hardly ever get noticeably warm for most people). If you wanted something fanless, you could look at the O-Droid machines. I actually plan to get one for myself eventually. These machines develop a lot in a short amount of time, so what would be a fairly warm running single core CPU (like the Raspberry Pi) now has quad core ARM based competition in similar form factors that are also capable of running with just a fanless heatsink. The Raspberry Pi is unique in that it doesn't even require a heatsink (I don't have one on mine).

Desktop hardware is not at the point where that can be a reality, so it will still be an issue that even a single low speed fan would still be necessary for long term stability in the machine.

_________________
|Dual Intel Xeon E5-2620-Xigmatek SD1283 DK-II|Asus Z9PA-D8-HR-05 IFX|WD 250gb Velociraptor SATA3|16gb DDR3-1600 ECC RDIMM|WD Blue 640GB SATA2 x2|Logitech K750|Logitech Wireless Mouse|nVidia GTX660ti 2GB|Antec HCG-750|NZXT Source 210 Elite|M-Audio ProFire 2626|Art TubeOpto8 with Smooth Plate Tube Swap|Avid Artist Mix x2|
FartingBob wrote:
A 9500GT with 1GB of RAM is the most pointless thing since NASCAR.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group