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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:24 pm 
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loty1825 wrote:
The frame and mounting holes look different on PH-F140TSl. It's odd that it has 3-pin header and PWM control. How can a fan be PWM controlled with just 3-pins?

The PH-F140TS is a 1200 rpm voltage control fan. There isn't any PWM control, the 'PWM functions' seems to be a claim that fan speeds can be varied like PWM control. Not a very good choice of wording considering that what you actually get are two resistor cables offering fixed but lower speeds than 12V.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Great test!
Quick question: How did you get your fan xpert to start the Noctua P14s at so low speed? I've got a Maximus Impact and my fan xpert won't detect any lower startup speeds than apx 650 rpm..

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:59 am 
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gromitee wrote:
Great test!
Quick question: How did you get your fan xpert to start the Noctua P14s at so low speed? I've got a Maximus Impact and my fan xpert won't detect any lower startup speeds than apx 650 rpm..
On all asus motherboard i have tested, on the initial boot, the fans speed up to whatever the bios is setup to in the Fan Control, after windows loads then fanXpert2 should enter, so in essence fanXpert2 never starts up the fans from 0, he just recieves them from whatever the bios ran them through the booting process. Try to increase the speed of that header on the bios, to garantee you reach your 650rpms you need for the fan to start, so when it enters windows it should sustain the speed.

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Abula wrote:
gromitee wrote:
Great test!
Quick question: How did you get your fan xpert to start the Noctua P14s at so low speed? I've got a Maximus Impact and my fan xpert won't detect any lower startup speeds than apx 650 rpm..
On all asus motherboard i have tested, on the initial boot, the fans speed up to whatever the bios is setup to in the Fan Control, after windows loads then fanXpert2 should enter, so in essence fanXpert2 never starts up the fans from 0, he just recieves them from whatever the bios ran them through the booting process. Try to increase the speed of that header on the bios, to garantee you reach your 650rpms you need for the fan to start, so when it enters windows it should sustain the speed.


Not sure if I follow you.. Looking at the attached picture I get "Fan running when power is higher than" 606RPM while the reviewer gets 211RPM with the same fan(http://www.silentpcreview.com/files/images/fans-2013-140a/rpm-noctua-p14.png).. I was wondering how he achieved that. Settings? Lucky sample?


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:37 am 
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Abula wrote:
gromitee wrote:
Great test!
Quick question: How did you get your fan xpert to start the Noctua P14s at so low speed? I've got a Maximus Impact and my fan xpert won't detect any lower startup speeds than apx 650 rpm..
On all asus motherboard i have tested, on the initial boot, the fans speed up to whatever the bios is setup to in the Fan Control, after windows loads then fanXpert2 should enter, so in essence fanXpert2 never starts up the fans from 0, he just recieves them from whatever the bios ran them through the booting process. Try to increase the speed of that header on the bios, to garantee you reach your 650rpms you need for the fan to start, so when it enters windows it should sustain the speed.

IIRC correctly, that test runs the fans from 100% (PWM) downwards until they stop. In this case at 20%. So you could test to that speed, but probably not start them there. And then use BIOS & Windows to start at 50% and pull it down to 20% for idle.

I'm running Linux now, or I'd just try it on my 3770K Maximus IV Gene. Although, apparently the only true PWM connectors on ASUS boards are CPU_FAN and OPT_CPU.

- samwisekoi

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:39 am 
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Maybe it's a way too old article to edit now, but I suggest the Phanteks PH-140HP/TS should be named only PH-140HP to avoid confusion. I was a little too fast and unfortunately bought the TS version (the one with straight struts). I regret it, even at 5v it's quite loud, louder than my Fractal fans at 1000 rpm oddly enough. I suppose the HP variant is a much better one given the positive review here.

http://www.phanteks.com/PH-F140TS.html
http://www.phanteks.com/PH-F140HP.html


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:25 pm 
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gromitee wrote:
I was wondering how he achieved that. Settings? Lucky sample?

I'm using the P14r on a NH-C14 where they replaced the original P14 (the SPCR reference one, IIRC): even if those two fans have different max speed, their min one is about equivalent on my rig.
As far as I know the P14s and P14r should be rather similar, so I gave a run to FanXpert 2 Auto Tuning on it just for fun (I use SpeedFan).
My results are much closer to SPCR findings than to your ones:

Attachment:
Noctua P14 FanXpert 2.jpg

Other obvious difference is that I'm running the P14r off the CPU header, and not hooked on a chassis header.


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:18 am 
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For the sake of completeness, I retested the original Noctua P14 (3-pin) with the FanXpert2 Auto Tuning:

Attachment:
Noctua P14 3pin FanXpert 2.jpg


Running it off the CHA_FAN 2 the results are more closer to your one, even if I know they aren't trustful: take a look at the same fans on the same headers when controlled by SpeedFan

Attachment:
Noctua P14 & P14r SpeedFan.jpg


No automatic tuning, but on the other hand I prefer SpeedFan over any proprietary piece of software (whether it works).

Well, my not that much educated guess is that, given the NF-P14 FLX stops itself around a 24% duty cycle, FanXpert didn't properly recorded that fact, because this value is intermediate between the FanXpert2 setting points of 20% and 30%, so that it probably picked the higher one as reference.

On the other hand, my guess wouldn't seem to apply to you, because you should have three setting points correctly recorded under the reported reference min.

At any rate, IMHO those issues seem to be due/related to sort of a bad interaction between the FanXpert Auto Tuning algorithm and the specific mobo header (maybe you could try the tuning with the P14s hooked onto the CPU_FAN header, in order to see if anything changes).


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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:46 pm 
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Nice testing lucas =)

Personally i have find similar things, the FanXpert algorithm while not bad, its not perfect either, it has some issue with some fans or establishing the complete minimum, but here also samples vary, i think they buff up some the numbers to be in the safe side and not have stopping when the user dont want to do it intentionally, still i find it very good for fast testing, sometimes im buidling for friends and i have less than an hour, so i cant do other things, and the tuning works fast and overall is decent, not perfect but ok for most of my testing. That said i no longer use asus motherboards, i prefer more MSI atm with their bios fan control, i seen asus has done some tweaking on thier H97/Z97, but will not consider them until skylake, i feel MSI does the job fine, specially for going minimialist into no software at all =).

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 Post subject: Re: 140 mm Fan Roundup: Noctua, Phanteks, Xigmatek
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:28 pm 
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Abula wrote:
specially for going minimialist into no software at all =).

I know your long-standing preference, mate: on the other hand, I still prefer to have "my" 16 trigger points within multiple, programmable, advanced fan controllers (I like that tinkering). :mrgreen:

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